Which camera?

[liza]

Hi,
I am buying my first DSLR camera and taking the right decision among such a broad range of products is very difficult, specially for beginner. I am generally interested in outdoor/travel/landscape/wildlife photography.
I have done a bit of research and have decided for semi pro (enthusiastic) camera. I don't want to go for entry-level model, I will probably have to upgrade it to quick. I have done some research and have narrowed my choice to 5 cameras Canon eos 50d or Nikon d90 on one hand (those two are cheaper, what is a big +) but I much rather spend more if it is worth the money. And Nikon300s, Nikon d700 and Canon eos d7 on the other hand.Sspecially last 2 cameras are more expensive, but have some very interesting features and I simply cannot see which one is the best since every model has some advantages and some disadvantages. On one hand I really like Nikon d700 which produces better results when shooting in higher ISO and crop factor 1.0. What bothers me the most with Nikon is its lower resolution in Mp. In comparison with Canon d7, which has more Mp and is faster, and so on. As you can see I am in big dilemma and would really need an advise after all taking wrong decision is an expensive mistake in the case of cameras. So which model would be the best for my needs and (the one that provides quality pics and is worth its price) which lens is the best to start with?
Thanks for help.

[clm738]

Have you tried going to a camera shop and holding them all, or as many as you can, complete with long and short lens, (battery grip and flash if you are going to get them). eliminate the ones that just don't feel right and go from there. How the camera feels in your hands and if you can touch all the controls with the right fingers makes it a lot easier to get used to the camera and you will enjoy using it more.
You're not planning on spending a small amount on your bodies so don't rush into it.

[swifty]

I agree that u should take your time. No rush really.
Write a list of what u consider important and what you intend to shoot.
One issue newcomers often make is overemphasing the camera itself and not enough on everything else. Arguably the most important consideration is the lens choice. Then there's supporting accessories, and don't forget to budget for thngs like tripods,bags etc.
Of the choices u have listed, in all honesty I don't think u can go wrong. IMHO but biased of course (as all opinions are) the D700 is the best all rounder, 7D makes a very compelling case for reach, speed, mp and not to mention possibly the best video available on DSLR currently (if that interests u).
But all the other choices are strong in their own respects.
Good luck on ur decision.

[bigdazzler]

You know what i reckon ?? I reckon youre confusing the hell out of yourself by looking at specs, and resolution and MPs and bla bla ...

Take a deep breath and slow down

First, what level of experience do you have ?? Where are your skills at ?? Do you have an understanding of how to use a DSLR correctly ?? No point worrying about 17 v 24 MPs if you dont have the an understanding of the basic fundamentals.

So tell us a bit about where youre at, what you would mostly like to do with the camera, and your upper limit budget. This will get you the best advice possible on where you should be looking to spend your money

[jim]

One issue newcomers often make is overemphasing the camera itself and not enough on everything else. Arguably the most important consideration is the lens choice.

If your budget is tight it's probably a good idea to buy a cheaper camera (all those on your list are very capable I believe) and spend your money on the best lenses you can get. You'll probably be using them long after the camera is gone.

[ving]

bigdazzler is correct...

personally if you are just a beginner, and you arent going into business why not go the cheaper option and buy a d90 (or canon equivalent) and use the money you saved for lenses, cause trust me the more you get into it the more lenses you are likely to want

and also remember nikon and canon arent the only makes out there, you might be able to get a better deal on say an olympus, pentax or sony for example. shop around, see what system suits your needs best.

[liza]

You know what i reckon ?? I reckon youre confusing the hell out of yourself by looking at specs, and resolution and MPs and bla bla ...

Take a deep breath and slow down

First, what level of experience do you have ?? Where are your skills at ?? Do you have an understanding of how to use a DSLR correctly ?? No point worrying about 17 v 24 MPs if you dont have the an understanding of the basic fundamentals.

So tell us a bit about where youre at, what you would mostly like to do with the camera, and your upper limit budget. This will get you the best advice possible on where you should be looking to spend your money

Hi
Thanks for all comments.
I have to agree with you I am really confusing myself and more information I get, more confused I am becoming. What can I say about my skills. I haven't done any shooting with SLR, yet. Right now I am using Canon Powershot camera. I have been taking my photography a bit seriously for the last year or so. I have understanding of shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc. Honestly I even don't understand really what is actually the difference between SLR and compact camera (except in technology and in fact that SLR produces better pics) - I mean in terms of usage (hopefully the question doesn't sound to silly, but as I just wrote I haven't used SLR yet). I try to practise as often as possible and try to take photos practically of everything, but I enjoy the most in shooting landscapes and wildlife.
I haven't limited the budget. Right now I am doing a bit of research and I'll probably weit for a couple of months to save some money - how long I'll have to wait before buying depends of the camera price (but of course, I rather spend less than more if it is possible).

[dmdigital]

Don't get too concerned about the megapixels. Canon and others make a big deal of how many mp's they have on their sensors. Whilst at first it may stand out a scream "buy me I'm bigger" it's not really that much of a big issue. All of the cameras you've mentioned will take excellent pictures regardless of how many pixels they have.

I would recommend looking at the lower spec bodies (eg D90) and spending more money on better lenses. As you learn you will want to upgrade the body, but a good lens is an investment.

But what ever you do, try the body out at a camera shop. Personally I hate Canon, not because they are inferior to Nikon, but because I can't stand the ergonomics of the camera body. Others will have the opposite opinion.

[I @ M]

(but of course, I rather spend less than more if it is possible).

We all want to do that

Quite frankly, there have been some brilliant photos posted on here (AP) as well as the rest of the web that have been taken with far less than professional level cameras and it has all come down to the ability of the photographer to see the scene and to understand the functions of their camera and its' limitations.

My advice -- go forth and buy whichever semi entry level camera suits your budget and the feel of your hands using it, use it it constantly and wear it out inside of the warranty period to the stage that you KNOW that you are being held back in your photographic endeavours by the level of equipment and then unleash the credit card on the next level of lenses and bodies to get the result you want.

In the meantime, read heaps on here, join in, post some images for critique and have a ball.

[bigdazzler]

Hi
Thanks for all comments.
I have to agree with you I am really confusing myself and more information I get, more confused I am becoming. What can I say about my skills. I haven't done any shooting with SLR, yet. Right now I am using Canon Powershot camera. I have been taking my photography a bit seriously for the last year or so. I have understanding of shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc. Honestly I even don't understand really what is actually the difference between SLR and compact camera (except in technology and in fact that SLR produces better pics) - I mean in terms of usage (hopefully the question doesn't sound to silly, but as I just wrote I haven't used SLR yet). I try to practise as often as possible and try to take photos practically of everything, but I enjoy the most in shooting landscapes and wildlife.
I haven't limited the budget. Right now I am doing a bit of research and I'll probably weit for a couple of months to save some money - how long I'll have to wait before buying depends of the camera price (but of course, I rather spend less than more if it is possible).

ok now were getting somewhere, we have a starting point ...

First of all ... Keep an open mind. You can rest assured that every camera manufacturer in the market today is making great products and ALL are very capable of producing outstanding results. The camera is a tool, a means to an end, and like any tool, it will only perform as well as its operator can operate it .. so never forget that bit However, in saying that, there is one major advantage to sticking with Canon or Nikon over the other brands, and that is the availability of second hand lenses. Other than that, all the manufacturers including Pentax, Sony and Olympus are producing outstanding gear these days. So as I said, keep an open mind.

Second of all .. Given you have stated that you havent used a DSLR as yet, before you even think about buying anything, I would STRONGLY recommend you go into your local store and hold and feel up as many cameras from as many different manufacturers as you can get your hands on. Ergonomics can vary greatly. Some will feel great in your hands, others will feel awkward and uncomfortable. Take note of obvious things like can your right index finger reach the shutter button comfortably ?? These are the types of things you cant learn on the internet. YOU need to hold the cameras for yourself.

Thirdly .. Once youve decided on a brand, be aware of the fact that youre not only buying a camera and a lens, youre buying into a system, and over time this usually equates to quite a substantial financial investment. Once locked into Canon or Nikon or whatever else, and you have accumulated a few lenses, flashes etc, for most of us it is simply too expensive to go changing. So take into consideration the different lenses that are available from different brands that might suit your needs. As I mentioned before, in this regard the BIG 2 have a distinct advantage over the others for 2 reasons. One, they have a wide variety of lenses available for pretty well all applications from ultra wide angles for landscapes, right through to super telephoto lenses for sport and wildlife, and 2, there is an abundance of second hand gear floating around, much more than you will be able to find from the other brands.

So have a think about what kind of kit your like to get you up and running. Given the genres you mentioned, you will most likely want a body, lenses covering say 18mm to 200mm, and a sturdy tripod. Dont discount second hand bodies either, most photographers look after their gear very well and you can find a lot of very good second hand gear going cheap. Your money is better invested in lenses than bodies. Bodies will come and go. Lenses (at least QUALITY ones, for the most part) are with you for life

Theres a few things to think about before you go shopping anyway .... Im sure there will be a lot more advice coming your way but just remember to do your homework, heed the advice of the guys around here, and be patient. Youll end up making wiser decisions and end up with a more suitable kit bag if you spend a little bit of time thinking about things ...

[arthurking83]

Most of the advice has been to save the money on the body(by skimping) and using those savings to purchase better lenses.. yet the reality is that as a beginner, you probably have no idea on what lenses you want right now! That knowledge comes after having been shooting for a while, and coming to a scientific conclusion that you need a lens with ---mm focal length and a maximum f/X.Y aperture.. etc.

I say, of the bodies suggested, do it right the first time, and get either the D700(or Canon 5DMkII) and then forget about requiring a body upgrade for the next 10 or so years as you invest more time and money on your lenses.

No point is spending $1K on a body now, only to want to upgrade again in the future(because of your comment that the D700 does better high ISO).. and thus eventually wasting that $1K(you never get your money back, especially after a coupel of generations of new bodies).

That $1K(wasted) may have been better spent on the original body in the first place!

That's just my POV, and it's worked for me over the last few years.
It takes up too much energy to have to think about upgrading both the body and the lenses at the same time.

My recommendation is for the D700(from your list) for general outdoor, landscape, most travel situations.. and can do great wildlife pics in a pinch too... at any light level.
Some of the lenses I]required[/I] to achieve what you want, will cost a small fortune.. and with the Nikon system, you have access to many golden oldie lenses(for cheap!) that work as well as, or better than the modern stuff too.

Only because of your willingness to learn more about the hobby, the level of expertise in operating a camera such as the D700(or D300s) is not going to be an obstacle!
If you're eager to find out as much info as you can on which camera is the right one for you, I bet you're going to be more than capable of learning how to use aperture/shutter priority on the cam. It's not science!

We've planned a meetup for Feb where there seems to be quite a diverse range of members attending with their concomitantly diverse range of camera gear. A perfect way to experience first hand what each camera is going to be like form the people that use them. All you have to do is attend.

See HERE(it's going to be in your neck of the woods anyhow )

[bigdazzler]

thats a fair point AK ... Of course the other side of the coin is there is nothing stopping someone just starting out, buying and sticking with lets say a 450D or a D90 for a few years anyway ... Lets be honest, how many of us actually outgrow our camera bodies ability wise anyhow ?? Unless you are a working sport tog that requires 10fps or a full time wedding shooter that requires ultra low noise at high ISOs, we really only upgrade our bodies to satisfy our lusts and desires anyway right ??

[Gregg Bell]

Right it seems that you're very confuzzled. So heres the deal the whole point of owning a dSLR is because the lenses are interchangeable. Buying the greatest and best camera, and using cheap lenses. Besides the way cameras come and go, you kinda lose half its value within 6months, where as lenses hold their resale value.

Because I own Nikon. I will give you the POV and your choices in the Nikon Department. You said you wanted to do Wildlife, and Landscape. This is quite a contradiction if you are on a budget. Wildlife photographers tend to get a cropped sensor because it gives them that extra reach. Landscape photographers would ideally use a full-frame dSLR. So which is the higher priority?

As for travel, and the rest, well both cameras will do as good as each other.

I wouldn't recommend a D300s unless you know what you're doing with a camera. The D300s only has Manual, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, and Program. With tons of custom features. Its a great camera if you want to get the best for wildlife. The Canon 7D rivals with the D300s. However The 7D is known to be rather soft in comparison to the Nikon D300s.

I don't see why you need more then 12 megapixels. Unless you REALLY need to print 1meter x 80cm prints, then get the Canon 7D. the Nikon D300s making prints of 150DPI you would get a maximum 72.6cm x 48.2cm prints. Is that too small for you?

On the other hand I would recommend a Canon 50D or Nikon D90 or any other consumer equivalent. They are prosumer, definitely great value for $. They do everything the D300s but they have pre-set functions, and are dumbed down.

If you choose a full-frame camera, and you want to do wildlife, then your lens choices suddenly becomes seriously expensive, if you want to shoot birds with the D700 you better save $16,000 and get the 600mm. This of course is the Ideal solution.

For the lenses, depending on which format you choose, both nikon and canon offer a plethora of lenses. for landscape on the DX formats, you have the 12-24DX from nikon, and the 10-22mm for the canon.

the 24-70mm from both cameras are marveled for being a fantastic combination. A nikon D700 & 24-70mm will be the ideal landscape, and travel lens. If you are serious about your landscapes you can drop just over $2K and get the legendary 14-24mm.

so here's a few Ideal setups for the genres you chose, I even broke it down into Full-frame and DX for you.

Full-Frame Nikon D700 $3000
Landscape: 14-24mm f/2.8 ($2400)
Wildlife: 200-400mm f/4 IF ED VR ($8,600) OR 80-400mm f/4-5.6 ($2,200)
Birding: 600mm f/4 IF ED VR ($13,600) OR 300mm f/2.8 IF ED VR + 2x TC ($8500)
Travel: 24-70mm f/2.8 ED VR ($2,500)

Full-Frame Canon 5DmkII $2990
Landscape: 16-35mm f/2.8L ($2,000) 17-40 f/4L ($1,200)
Wildlife: 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L ($2,300)
Birding: 800mm f/5.6L ($15,000) or 600mm f/4L ($12000)
Travel: 24-70mm f/2.8L ($1700)

Cropped Nikon D300s $2,000 D90 $950
Landscape: 12-24mm f/4 IF-ED ($1,600) OR any third party which ranges from $400-1200
Wildlife: 80-400mm f/4-5.6 IF-ED VR ($2,200) OR 70-200mm f/2.8 IF-ED VR ($2,400)
Birding: 80-400mm f/4-5.6 ED VR($2,200)
Travel: 17-55mm f/2.8 IF-ED DX G ($1,600) OR 24-70mm f/2.8 ED VR ($2,400)

Cropped Cannon Canon 50D $1,200 Canon 7D $2,100
Landscape: 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 ($1,165) OR any third party which ranges from $400-1200
Wildlife: 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L ($2,300) or 70-200mm L ($1,100 - 2,200)
Birding: 400mm f/5.6L ($1,700)
Travel: 17-40 f/4L ($1,200) OR 24-70mm f/2.8L ($1700)

So think about it like this IF you go Full-Frame the lenses will cost you alot more.If you do however want to do birding, and willing to fork out for a nice lens purely for birding you can get the 400mm f/5.6L for $1700, something that Nikon does NOT have.

However if you are doing wildlife and birding then Nikon offers the 80-400mm, which will be great for shooting large birds, medium birds, and zoos, even going on safaris. The Canon have their 100-400mm that rivals the nikon as well.

So maybe you should think about your priorities and think what you would like to photograph, if you want to photograph all these genres and use quality glass like the ones mentioned, then you don't have to get them straight away but building up and get what you would use most. As you can see Canon is cheaper

[Jasmar]

Hi Liza.
I agree completely with Gregg.
My first DSLR was the Nikon D70 ( which I still have and use as my 2nd camera ). I learnt everything with that camera then progressed to the D300 when I knew I was ready for the next level. My advise is to go to your nearest camera shop. Hold and try out each one that has been suggested and see which one best suits you. Have fun.

[liza]

Hi
Thanks everyone for your advices. I'll definitely go into the store beforehand and see how every camera feels in my hands. But I'd like to stay with Nikon or Canon (if I broaden my choice to other brands, than I'll get even more confused, as I'm not enough right now).

Thanks Gregg for such a wide interpretation. From all that I have read so far, Nikon D700 seems to be my favourite (if the price wouldn't be so high I would probably go for that one straight away).
As it goes for what I like to photograph is like that. I like to take my camera everywhere I go. What means, when going to city I will take photos of architecture, city in night (this is why I would like a camera that produces (relatively) good pics at higher ISO); when going in parks (what is my favourite) I will take landscapes and of course wildlife (you wrote landscapes and wildlife are in contradiction, but from my point of view those two fields are actually very closely linked), when traveling I would take photos practically of everything, there are also family/friends gatherings, etc. Since I usually take photos outside it would be a big plus if a camera is environmentally sealed. So, generally I would probably need a good all rounder (at least for beginning) with maybe 1 or 2 lenses for beginning.
I cannot say I really know what I am doing with my camera (I am still learning), but I almost never (except in the case of sunset, and sometimes with sport) use scene modes (I usually use AV or Manual settings).
I must admit I still don't have a good understanding of lenses (can you advise me any good book or website, where I could find a good explanation). There are also many different books on SLR photography and I wouldn't like to buy just one, can you advise me a good book.
Cheers.
Sandra

[bigdazzler]

Hi
city in night (this is why I would like a camera that produces (relatively) good pics at higher ISO);

If by city night photography you mean cityscapes/silky water/reflections/light trails, this is actually best achieved with base ISO (usually 100 or 200), a good sturdy tripod, and a remote shutter release.

If you mean dusk/twilight photography and handheld, high ISO performance is definitely a factor to consider.

[kiwi]

There has been lots of fantastic advice on here.

Ill just say one word

Nikon.

[bigdazzler]

Ill just say one word

Nikon.

As always, offered without the slightest hint of bias ...

[arthurking83]

As always, offered without the slightest hint of bias ...

I think you're confusing bias, with experience

of course, I say that without any biases or prejudices either

[bigdazzler]

haha .. I have to say its the most compelling one word argument ive ever heard ...