Wireless remote flash (430EXII) but NOT built in flash on a 60D .. can it be done?

[Ezookiel]

For the life of me I cannot seem to get ONLY the 430EXII to fire when it's used remotely on an EOS60D.
I've gone back and forth through both manuals, and what SHOULD only fire the remote unit (the 430EXII) also sets off the built in flash.
Ideally I'd actually like to not even have the built in flash popped up, but that doesn't seem to be an option with the 60D.

Is this possible?

The reason I'm wanting to do this, is I'm actually using the camera to take a picture of the camera, so obviously don't want the camera's own built in flash to go off. Short of thick black tape I can't seem to find a solution.

If anyone knows a way to do this, then I'm all ears. Thanks

[Art Vandelay]

The built in flash is firing the signal to trigger the 430 remotely. That's way it works. It's not radio signal like the accesory ones.

It's only a very light signal & it doesn't contribute to the image, unless you select in the menu for it to fire as a flash as well the off camera flash.

[Ezookiel]

Ah, ok, I hadn't taken any actual shots yet to see if the flash was on in the actual captured photo, I'd been busy playing with trying to get the set up of it working, and was watching both flashes at the same time with the camera held just in my lap so I could see if the built in one fired. I'm guessing if the built in one is only firing to tell the external one to fire, then in any resultant photo the built in one would appear to not be on. I guess it's time to actually try some photos to test.
Though in honesty, it's proving to not be possible to take the photo I wanted to take. Well at least not with this set up.
I was trying for a photo in a mirror, with such a shallow DOF that the "EOS 60D" on the front corner of the camera was the only thing in focus, with both the lens and the portion of my face still visible behind the camera, both out of focus. Which was why I wanted the external flash set up remotely aimed back at the camera to light the model number etc.
Thanks for the help with it.
Greatly appreciated. Funny thing is, even if the photo I had in mind never proved to be possible, just trying has made me learn a whole new aspect of the camera that I've never tried before. So I guess that's accomplished something - even if the photo I wanted wasn't accomplished.

[Bennymiata]

I also have a 60D and use wireless flash quite often.
Unfortunately, the pop-up flash has to be open to fire the flash.
I too have tried to get the internal unit NOT to flash, but still trigger my 580EXII, but it doesn't matter what I do, or how low I set the internal flash, there is always a bright flash from it.

the only other way around it, is to use a wireless add-on, which will still be seen on the top of the camera as it is mounted ot the hot shoe.

[Mark L]

Have you got a remote switch? Can you borrow another Canon with a remote switch? Use borrowed camera to trigger flash. Hit remote switches at the same time. Try it numerous times and you might fluke what you want.
Inspired by :beer_mug:

[sdenness]

Maybe you don't need it anymore, but is it worth getting one of the remote flash triggers off ebay? You'd need to use full manual, but I use several of these different cheapie triggers and they're really good.

[jeffde]

Your off camera flash should way over power the built in so it really shouldn't effect your photos unless the subject is close - i use 2 580ex sometimes using the pop up as a trigger and you wouldn't know in the photos...

[Ezookiel]

Except the photo is a photo of the camera, so the pop up flash if it goes off is likely to appear lit in the photo.
I've all but given up the idea of the photo for the time being, at least with using a flash for the lighting. I'm only trying to light the "EOS 60D" logo on the camera, so a well placed torch or lamp will probably do the job anyway. The simplest solution of course is to have someone else using another camera take the photo. I'm pretty sure that's what I'll end up going with. I have a friend coming along on the 4wd photography trip in a fortnight's time. I'll get her to take the pic the way I have in mind, then it won't matter at all as she'll also have a flash as well if we need it.
Thanks heaps for the input on it all. It's been a heap of fun learning how to use remote flash anyway. Well ... fun right up till about the third time I set the damn thing off in my eyes while looking at it ... but once I can see again I should be fine - they make braille viewfinders for Canon Cameras don't they?

[Cyza]

You're very woried that the photo won't turn out right, but you haven't actually tried setting the shot up yet? That's what Im gathering from your posts including the last. "if it goes off is likely to appear lit in the photo."

I'd strongly suggest taking the photo, and then seeing if there is like you're predicting a problem.
If there is then you can post it up and maybe some other members can help you figure out a way to over come it.
or
In the best case scenario there isn't a noticeable problem and you're sweet :)

[Ezookiel]

I've tried setting it up, and promptly found it's almost impossible to take the photo as there is no way to get the correct angle and correct DOF to accomplish what I'm trying. It seemed pointless to take the photo when I could see through the camera it wasn't going to work. Not because of the flash, but because of the logistics of using my own camera to take a photo of a part of my own camera, with only one lens to work with, and hardly any mirrors in the house (when you look like we do, you tend to avoid having mirrors around :) ).
What I tried was to use my camera, to take a photo of the EOS60D logo on my camera, with shallow enough DOF to have everything else (lens and photographer) blurred. In attempting to take the shot, I found that:
A, there's no way to get the angle right to even bother activating the camera.
B, there appears to be no way with the 18-200mm to get the DOF correct.
So I didn't even bother when I could see through the viewfinder it wasn't going to work.

I'll try again when I can take the mirror somewhere where there's better light, and where I'm not cramping myself into a corner where the mirror is mounted, to try the shot. Well, that's the plan at the moment, but with everything else happening in my life at the moment, it's been pushed way down the priority list. Using a second camera it should be very easy to manage the shot, so that seemed to be the sensible way to do it. Though I might be able to use MULTIPLE mirrors to still do the shot myself. I guess the care factor just isn't there to go to that length of trouble yet.
I'll be at work on the weekend where I will have plenty of time to play around with it, in much better lit conditions, and with a lot more mirrors to play with. If I get even close to managing it, I'll definitely post up some pics for advice.

[Bennymiata]

The easiest way to do this is to get another camera to take the photo of your camera.
Either that, or go into a store that has a 60D in stock, and ask to take a photo of it, or look for a photo of the badge on the net.

Don't worry if the DOF is too large, you can fix that up in PP and just ad the blur where you want it.

[Ezookiel]

I've noticed several people use avatars that are pretty much them taking a photo of them taking a photo.
That's the goal here, except I want to blur myself out, and have just the logo in focus, hence the means of doing it this way rather than walking into a shop to get a pic of the logo.
I know I could PP it all up, but something in me just wants to do this the "real" way if it can be done. Creating DOF with PP won't teach me how to create DOF with the camera, which I really do need to learn, as I'm still very much a beginner to this whole thing.

[Cyza]

for shallowest DOF of field possible use the fastest aperture (lowest number) and zoom in as much as possible, or get a as close as possible using a prime lens.

[Bennymiata]

Then in that case, find a mirror in a well lit place, then it should be easy and you won't need flash.
Perhaps a friend's bathroom if yours doesn't have enough light or even, an open-air convenience.
Use a fun park mirror if you want some strange effects.

Even if you take the shot wide open, you'll probably still have to do some PP if you want your face etc to be blurred, as your face will be pretty close to the front of the camera.

[Mark L]

That's fun....

[Ezookiel]

I actually remembered to take my camera to work today where there is a very well lit bathroom with a mirror.
I kept forgetting to take the camera, or got too busy to play around. I'm on an overnighter now, so there's plenty of quiet time to play around with the camera for a bit.

I probably took a few dozen shots in total, with both attached and remote speedlite, and then accidentally took a second shot too fast for the speedlite to power back up, and found that NO speedlite gave the best result.
I don't finish work till tomorrow afternoon (we do damned long shifts) but it appears that I've got some that are exactly what I was looking for. I'll see if I can get them up tomorrow. Of course, I could find they're all crap once I get them off the camera. They often look really good on a tiny screen until you look at them on the big one.

What lens have you got on yours in the pic above Mark? The 18-200 is quite a long lens and caused some issues with getting a direct fully front on shot, but it's the only lens I have at the moment.

[larrywen]

I may try this approach

1. make the setup in a very dark room,
2. set the camera manually long exposure
3. manually fire the external flash.

Well, not sure the result, but can have a try :)

[Bennymiata]

I may try this approach

1. make the setup in a very dark room,
2. set the camera manually long exposure
3. manually fire the external flash.

Well, not sure the result, but can have a try :)

Actually, that sounds like a good idea, but instead of using a flash, use a small flashlight to just light up the badge.

[Mark L]

What lens have you got on yours in the pic above Mark? The 18-200 is quite a long lens and caused some issues with getting a direct fully front on shot, but it's the only lens I have at the moment.

90-300. Focal length 300mm f5.6 :confused013 No cropping.
About 2.5 meters from mirror, totally dark room using cameras flash.
Just a bit of spur of the moment fun.
Hope your photos turn out to be what you want.

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showlibrary.php?title=Technology:EXIF_and_Other_Plugins lets you view data for photos. If you use IE check the Opanda link.

[Ezookiel]

If I can't find an avatar amongst them, then I'm just not trying hard enough.
Shot under the heater lights in a bathroom, so adjusting the photos to "tungsten" seemed to de-orange them the best, and most cropped to a square suitable to scale down to a 100x100 avatar size. Of course, at that size it was a waste of time doing this, as the logo is almost unreadable, but it was as much an experiment in what can be done with one camera. On the weekend I might try for a better shot with a friend taking the pic with her camera.
Oh, and these varied between on camera flash only, Speedlite only, and remote speedlite with on camera flash combined.
Most shot from a tripod with the 2 second self timer.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00009.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00008.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00007.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00006.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00005.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00004.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00003.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00002.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00001.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Ezookiel/Aus%20Photography%20CC%20Pics/Image800x600-00025.jpg

[Ezookiel]

The second last one is my favourite of them. It was a bounced speedlite.

[Bennymiata]

You should have had a shave first thought! :lol:

[Ezookiel]

LOL. That was exactly what kept annoying me as I was PP'ing these. Dammit! Why didn't I shave first?
Maybe one day I'll redo them all, but the fact is it was as much about learning as it was about the result.

[Bennymiata]

As long as you had fun.
That's the main thing!

I don't shave either!
With the lack of hair on the top of my head, I have to make up for it elsewhere! :D

[Ezookiel]

I shave about once a fortnight when I have to go to the office. The rest of the time I'm just bristles.
I joked once with the women at the office when I forgot to shave before going there, that it was "designer stubble" like all the best male models seem to be sporting now-a-days. They kind of pointed out that 2 weeks is no longer designer stubble, but much more akin to "homeless hobo"

I got one shot that I can use as an avatar, so that will do with the experimenting for the moment.
Thanks for everyone who contributed. It actually really did help. If only to make me pull my finger out and finally go try properly after the first very uncommitted attempts.