PDA

View Full Version : Constructive Critique a discussion



Bear Dale
07-09-2019, 12:50pm
Just some weekend thoughts, be interesting to read others take on this subject.

Constructive Critique an oxymoron. Photography is full of subjective quantities. It's also full of objective quantities.

I don't see a problem with critiquing the criticizer (or in French the critiquer) asking questions or exploring the usefulness of the critique in regards to the image. Not open confrontation, but questioning, yes.

The end judge and sole arbitrator of an image, is in the end, the image taker, CC can be as relevant as the water off a ducks or it can be absorbed and be used to facilitate technical growth (artistic growth, I have doubts).

Does all constructive critique or critical examination of an image need responding to or be thankful of being received? I personally don't think so as some constructive critique is and can be pointless. Just like I just had an opinion then,whether people agree with that opinion or not, I don't have to be thanked for expounding it in public.

When someone takes a photo they take it for themselves, they PP to their liking and post it up accepting that it is open for criticism. The criticism can flow in, but its still an image that the photographer has worked towards to their personal brief for the end result, they haven't been hired and haven't failed or not for-filled a brief given to them.

Photographers do believe that criticism of their work can improve their skills (for common photography mistakes) and it can, but it can also stymie a persons style and growth if they get swayed by taking too much (or any) criticism onboard just because people are airing their personal views on an image to what, is to or not to, their personal tastes. Twenty critics can give 20 different critiques, what's a photographer meant to do with that much overload of critics perceived nuances to their image, embrace it or shrug it off? Its not as if criticism is always unequivocally correct.

There's also the very real and undeniable aspect of looking at others work and being inspired by it and looking at others work and thinking 'blah' and it doesn't just gel with you on any level. I think its good to look at critics work and see if their work resonates on any level with you before taking their criticism on board. Yes, someone will say you don't have to me a Michelin Chef to be a food critic or a Hollywood movie producer to be a film critic. That's ok, though if I was an aspiring chef, I'd be more inclined to take a lesson and critique on my cooking from the Michelin Chef over the food critic.

But if someone is giving you critique because your style isn't their style, look at their work and see what you like and what you don't like. Ask yourself can you learn anything from what this person is able to produce photographically and decide how much their criticism of your work is of any value to you. But as we put our photos up, they of course can be critiqued, but do we really owe a debt of gratitude to every critique received?

As mentioned earlier, photography is an art, its subjective just like all art, it may be to your taste, it may not be to your taste. Every bodies photography journey is their own.

There's also the environment that the photo was taken in, not all shots are staged in studios and outside there are variables that we simply cant control (but are nonetheless aware of). Can some criticism show a superficial understanding of the photograph and the processes involved in its making from a cursory and quick examination? Critiquing or nitpicking a photo won't help the image taken and shared if that fleeting moment of time can't ever be redone. Nothing much will ever be exact moment again.

Do we need to validate each and every criticism received?

Anyway, the above is just my opinion and open to critique :) What's your opinion?

ricktas
07-09-2019, 1:35pm
that is why we introduced the 'thanks' option at the bottom of each post. Allows people to say 'thanks' without diving into a discussion about why they might actually disagree with the critique given. Hit 'thanks' and move on. However members are quite welcome to discuss each others critiques if they want to. Just keep it about the photo, the critique and not make it personal and everything will be good.

ricktas
07-09-2019, 1:38pm
We also have a CC guide for beginners : http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?103809-A-guide-to-giving-Constructive-Criticism-for-Beginners

gcflora
07-09-2019, 5:31pm
From your post it seems to me that you think the words criticism and critique are equivalent... but they're not.

Jaded62
07-09-2019, 5:43pm
Bear,

Thanks for your post. I don't speak for anyone but myself...........I post my photos for critique which in my mind is me asking for educational feedback. Sometimes I take on board what the critic says and it is usually something I hadn't considered/didn't know/didn't see in my work. Even if I don't action the critique I still appreciate it. Other critique is often just comment which I either appreciate or not but as long as people are not rude its all good.


Do we need to validate each and every criticism received? No, I don't think so. Why? If we were all in a room talking about my photo I would not feel the need or have the time to address everyone's comments, nor would everyone in the room want or need to make comment. Forums are a conversation, a meeting place, not a classroom.

Cheers,

Mark

Bear Dale
07-09-2019, 6:16pm
From your post it seems to me that you think the words criticism and critique are equivalent... but they're not.


the words criticism and critique are equivalent

Not to get into semantics, but they are synonymous and interchangeable.

- - - Updated - - -


Bear,

Thanks for your post. I don't speak for anyone but myself...........I post my photos for critique which in my mind is me asking for educational feedback. Sometimes I take on board what the critic says and it is usually something I hadn't considered/didn't know/didn't see in my work. Even if I don't action the critique I still appreciate it. Other critique is often just comment which I either appreciate or not but as long as people are not rude its all good.


Do we need to validate each and every criticism received? No, I don't think so. Why? If we were all in a room talking about my photo I would not feel the need or have the time to address everyone's comments, nor would everyone in the room want or need to make comment. Forums are a conversation, a meeting place, not a classroom.

Cheers,

Mark

Appreciate reading your thoughts Mark, thank you.

ricktas
07-09-2019, 6:24pm
Not to get into semantics, but they are synonymous and interchangeable.


Not really. Criticism is generally negative. Critique can easily be positive.

criticism
/ˈkrɪtɪsɪz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: criticism; plural noun: criticisms

1.
the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.
"he received a lot of criticism"

critique
/krɪˈtiːk/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: critique; plural noun: critiques

a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.



Critique

Synonyms: Noun

criticism, examine, notice, review

Noun

Critique is an alteration of an archaic word that referred generally to criticism. Critique itself dates to the early 18th century and originally referred to a piece of writing that criticized a literary or artistic work. The words criticism, critique, and review overlap in meaning. Criticism usually means "the act of criticizing" or a "remark or comment that expresses disapproval," Critique is a somewhat formal word that typically refers to a careful judgment in which someone gives an opinion about something. Review can refer to an essay analyzing a literary or artistic work, but can also sometimes imply a more casual or personal opinion.

Bear Dale
07-09-2019, 6:44pm
Rick you can have positive critiscm.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_criticism

I'll stand by the two words being interchangeable in the English language.

ameerat42
07-09-2019, 7:02pm
OK, so they are, because you said. But it's that they each have a range of meanings, and it's
various of these meanings that are interchangeable, not the "words" themselves. - And while
we're at it, what is "The English Language"? - No, don't answer that :p:p

--Oh, what are we talking about? - OK, I will get up a reply by and by...:p

ricktas
07-09-2019, 7:05pm
Rick you can have positive critiscm.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_criticism

I'll stand by the two words being interchangeable in the English language.

You can stand by it if you like. I am also going to stand by my view, that you are wrong.

Bear Dale
07-09-2019, 7:11pm
You can stand by it if you like. I am also going to stand by my view, that you are wrong.


We can discuss the nuances of the English language till the cows come home and I'm more than happy to, be good to keep the thread more on topic though.

And just out of interest I did a search on the forum for the word "criticism" and the returned net result was the search engine found twenty one (21), not entries, but twenty one (21) pages of results for the word criticism being used on AP.

ricktas
07-09-2019, 7:20pm
I must admit, I really have no idea what your direction for this thread even is. Other than we all have a different style of critique (which we each know anyway) and that people can use the critique or ignore it (which we each know anyway).

And out of interest, I just searched the word Critique, and got 40 pages of results. Again, I am not sure the point??

John King
07-09-2019, 8:30pm
BD, don't know if you have read "Weasel Words" by Don Watson.

One of my favourite weasel words is 'sanction' ...

Mark L
07-09-2019, 9:45pm
Interesting that DB as started his thread as it seems that CC on their photos is mostly addressed with why they like the photo and CC is dismissed.
I don't see much criticism happening around the photos posted. Positive CC , yep.

Bear Dale
07-09-2019, 11:32pm
I must admit, I really have no idea what your direction for this thread even is.

Just an interesting weekend discussion point.

- - - Updated - - -


From your post it seems to me that you think the words criticism and critique are equivalent... but they're not.


Not really. Criticism is generally negative. Critique can easily be positive.



Sorry, was having dinner with friends so I had a break.

Just wanted to post some links up to clarify something in regards to this semantics in regards to critique and criticism.

Rick, you yourself have used the 'criticism' at least three (3) times in thread titles -

Our Constuctive Criticism Challenge (sic) -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?91427-Our-Constuctive-Criticism-Challenge&highlight=criticism

A guide to giving Constructive Criticism for Beginners -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?103809-A-guide-to-giving-Constructive-Criticism-for-Beginners&highlight=criticism

Christmas Constructive Criticism : Let's give each other a gift -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?113761-Christmas-Constructive-Criticism-Let-s-give-each-other-a-gift&highlight=criticism


I point this out in the fairness of open and robust discussion where I stated that critique and criticism were interchangeable in the English language -


Not to get into semantics, but they are synonymous and interchangeable.

And was told by yourself Rick that I was wrong -


You can stand by it if you like. I am also going to stand by my view, that you are wrong.

farmmax
08-09-2019, 2:04am
I think I'll stay out of this argument. I would like to comment that over the years I have learned more from members critique of other members photo, than perhaps of my own photos. So everyone criticizing or critiquing keep it up!

For those not wanting any critique of their photos, there is already a forum to post such photos.

ricktas
08-09-2019, 7:22am
Just an interesting weekend discussion point.

- - - Updated - - -





Sorry, was having dinner with friends so I had a break.

Just wanted to post some links up to clarify something in regards to this semantics in regards to critique and criticism.

Rick, you yourself have used the 'criticism' at least three (3) times in thread titles -

Our Constuctive Criticism Challenge (sic) -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?91427-Our-Constuctive-Criticism-Challenge&highlight=criticism

A guide to giving Constructive Criticism for Beginners -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?103809-A-guide-to-giving-Constructive-Criticism-for-Beginners&highlight=criticism

Christmas Constructive Criticism : Let's give each other a gift -http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?113761-Christmas-Constructive-Criticism-Let-s-give-each-other-a-gift&highlight=criticism


I point this out in the fairness of open and robust discussion where I stated that critique and criticism were interchangeable in the English language -



And was told by yourself Rick that I was wrong -

And all three times I have used it, it has been proceeded by the word 'constructive'. At this point I have nothing further to add, as I cannot work out the purpose of this entire discussion. So I shall, like Farmmax, bow out and leave you to it.

Bear Dale
08-09-2019, 9:24am
I think I'll stay out of this argument. I would like to comment that over the years I have learned more from members critique of other members photo, than perhaps of my own photos. So everyone criticizing or critiquing keep it up!

For those not wanting any critique of their photos, there is already a forum to post such photos.



G'day Richard and thanks for your post. Its a shame that the thread got derailed over the semantics of a single word that is interchangeable and commonly used on the forum (and all photography forums).

The thread was never intended as an argument (from my side of the conversation at least it wasn't) but I have had to point out inaccuracies leveled at me.

CC is such a large part of the forum, if the thread hadn't been derailed it could have been (still could be) a very interesting discussion reading other members thoughts like yourself and Mark posted up.