Oh Crap!.......

[ktoopi]

Hi there all,

Ok so my HD is full again......I pull my external HD so I can move photos off my C drive onto it as I usually do. I have photos from 2007 to 2011 stored on the external HD........or so I thought. I plug it in and NOTHING. It says that there is nothing on it and all of the space is available!! Thank god I also backed up the photos to DVD up until 2010!! I have obviously forgotten to back up 2011 to DVD:eek:. 2012 - 2014 is still on my C Drive on my computer. Is there anything that can be done to recover the lost photos??????........should I use the external HD or chuck it and get another?
Kicking myself big time........it's looking like I've lost a years worth of photos grrrr so mad at myself for forgetting to back that last year up!!!!!!!!!!!

Karen

[danny]

Happened to me the other day also. It is such a "real world" problem. I dropped my HD while in the process of backing it up, and lost 12 months worth of photos. I have heard that there are some places that offer data recovery, however I have also been warned that it is not cheap, (all info comes from the good people of AP). I'm sure someone on here will offer advise on who to take it do.

And just to make you laugh…

my wife kept telling me that she 'heard' that you can put a HD in the freezer for a couple of hours and it will work again :confused013
So after I had tried everything, I finally gave in and tried the freezer trick, I must admit I had high hopes, as a dutiful husband I know that my wife is always right!! Well…. it seems…. for once…. SHE WAS WRONG!!! all I got for my troubles was a still broken, but very cold HD.

[arthurking83]

First things first Karen.
Don't use the drive. Don't send any more data to it, or try to fix it in any way(yet).

You can download some free recovery software that may fix it for 'ya.

I've used(and still have) a program called Recuva. There is a free for home use version, and this is all you should need.
If you have written any data to the drive, there is the possibility that some of the old(now unseen) data may be unrecoverable .. so to use this data recovery software, it's best to use it before any other events to the target drive.

The real lesson learned here is not about the possibility of HDD failure .. for all the data to be lost, I'd say there may even be the possibility that human error caused it. :confused013

Anyhow, if the data has been deleted, or if the MFT has been deleted or damaged, or someone(else?) happened to format the drive or something simple like that then the possibility of recovering the data is high.

the real lesson learned here tho, is that if you really value your data, you would have multiple(eg, 2 or 3) copies of the data stored somewhere .. and regularly synced to maintain peace of mind.
Personally, I wouldn't back up to DVD, other than for short term storage. I have 3 specific copies of my images, four if I count the daily used HDD where all current images are downloaded too.
One of the image stores is my regularly used copy(of all my images since day one), another is my regular backup of this same collection of images and a final bare drive copy that I only update every year or so.
The bare drive is not current, and is a last resort failsafe backup.
If the other two backups are somehow rendered useless I at least only lose a years worth of images. What are the chances of two backups dying at the same time, let alone 3, or even four.

I've accepted the inevitable that some idiot(most likely me .. possibly the kids) may accidentally format one of the image drives, or delete the MFT, or accidentally download a virus or something.
I, they or we may kill all data on the connected drives, but at least one will survive(the bare always unconnected drive).

Good luck with it .. and be sure to look into getting another drive to backup the data again.

[ktoopi]

Thanks aurthurking.......I haven't done anything with the drive except plug it in and try to look at the files! I have tried a couple of times now both using my desktop and my laptop and now there are some weird files on it that weren't visible the first time I tried and I can't open them and don't know what they are. I can see the drive and look on it but the photo files are gone:confused013 I am at a loss as to how they simply vanished. Nobody touches my computer stuff but me. DVD may not be an ideal back up but at least I have a copy :D except for 2011 which I forgot about. It seems that no form of digital storage is totally safe.
Anyways after reading your blurb I remembered that I also have a drive that regularly backs up my computer so here's hoping that 2011's photo's are on there! The stuffed drive is a WD 1 TB passport is that a good brand? I ask because I only bought another yesterday (before I knew about my drive problems) and bought the same brand. If it's not a reliable brand I'll take it back ASAP. I would also be interested to know what you would recommend as a back up system for my photos. I want something that follows the KISS principles (K eep I t S imple S tupid)

Cheers Karen:)

[Warbler]

Use the Command Prompt and type in CHKDSK <Hard Drive Letter>: /r and wait. Depending on the size of the drive, this could take 24 hrs or more. It may look like it has stopped, but it hasn't. Let it run to completion. If no files visible at the end, go to recovery software. It's worked for me in the past.

[ameerat42]

...Use the Command Prompt and type in CHKDSK <Hard Drive Letter>: /r and wait...

No, don't do this, Karen!!

Sorry Warbs, but NOT the /R option at this stage. The /R option will attempt to "repair" it. There may well be NOTHING wrong with it at all.

Karen, just do the CHKDSK <hard drive letter>: command without any other parameter, for example, if the drive letter is E:, type in:
chkdsk e:

Otherwise, does that drive give you any message at all when you plug it in? I sometimes get a message about having to "format" a drive
when I plug it in. I ignore it, disconnect it, and try it on another computer. When you have it plugged in, does it show up in your
USB list? Can you see the "Safely Remove" option?

Most importantly, don't panic (yet).

Am.

[Filter]

I had my HD wiped as part of comp repairs, they forgot to backup "My Pictures" so did I for that matter. They ran a recovery program with limited success. I got in Geeks to you after a couple of weeks & they suggested sending the HD to their lab in NSW who have the wiz bang programs . After some back & forth phone calls & emails it work out they could recover no more than my local shop with a free recovery program. What I was able to do was search my social media & recover 85% of my photos albeit they were under 200kb. HD's are getting bigger so we are actually trusting them with more data, is this a good thing?
Filter.

[bricat]

Most computer shops should be able to help you. Even HN have a tech guy. The cost these days is not that expensive. I had it done many years ago and though I can't remember how much I thought it was reasonable. There is nothing wrong with WD hard drives as such. If you bought two from the same batch and one fails then there maybe a chance that the other HD could fail also. If you bought them 6 months apart, OK. If you value those lost photo's take it to a pro. Rescue-Pro is a free recovery program for 1 year that came with a compact flash card I purchased. It states digital media so not sure if that includes HD's Any way good luck. cheers Brian

[ameerat42]

So with all this good advice about getting "it fixed", have we determined there is a problem yet?
Karen, sorry for NOT mentioning directly to try it on another computer first in the post above.
Sorry, you already have. In that case, can it be identified on the computer you're using, and can you try a CHKDSK command without any other parameters?

When you are in the command prompt, you can do this command to look at the options for CHKDSK...
CHKDSK /?
Am.

[arthurking83]

.......
Anyways after reading your blurb I remembered that I also have a drive that regularly backs up my computer so here's hoping that 2011's photo's are on there! The stuffed drive is a WD 1 TB passport is that a good brand? I ask because I only bought another yesterday (before I knew about my drive problems) and bought the same brand. If it's not a reliable brand I'll take it back ASAP. I would also be interested to know what you would recommend as a back up system for my photos. I want something that follows the KISS principles (K eep I t S imple S tupid)

Cheers Karen:)

Hopefully you can recover or discover the data you seem to have lost.

The program I use to do my backups is the most simple I've found available .. no bloatware, no automatic seek modes .. nothing .. just backup software9free of course!) that runs quickly and efficiently with two or three clicks.

I have about 8 WD drives in total, and so far all 8 have never failed .. some are over 10 years old now :D
I've had a Seagate drive fail and I have one Toshiba drive here that failed on someone else. Can't remember the other brand of drives I have had to help others with tho(I think the old Maxtor brand and maybe another Seagate too). I don't think the brand of drive will make that much of a difference in the overall scheme of things.

[MissionMan]

Hi Karen

Bear in mind that there is a possibility it may be an issue with the external housing and not the drive so the drive might be okay. First step would be removing the drive from the housing and replacing that to see if it's a drive issue. Unfortunately this would also void the warranty which may be a concern.

As far as drives are concerned, there are generally two options for recovery:

1. Software based
2. Hardware based

The software based is generally reserved for drive failures that relate to corrupted files, deleted partitions etc.

The hardware based ones could be simple (external housing issue) or complex. The more complex is where they physical dismantle the drive in a clean room and repair the broken parts to recover the data. The cost for the latter can be $1000+ so you need to question whether its too expensive and how important the photos are.

From a backup perspective, its worth noting that DVD is not what I would consider a stable long term format for storage. DVD's can get damaged and the dye in the DVD can fade if not stored in the dark so generally speaking, DVD's can last anything between 1 year and 15 years.

From a backup perspective, I would recommend two backups of everything. You do incremental (ongoing backups) using backup software and then a full backup of the data once a month which could be done using software or simple copying the contents of your drive once a month. I use a combination of a drive backup and a online backup which gives me both a cloud based recovery and a local recovery.

Online is an option but can be expensive to get the bulk of your data uploaded when you start depending on how many photos you have and how many you taken on a monthly basis. Some services like Crashplan offer the option to send them a hard drive for your initial backup which may help if you have a lot of photos. It's only available for customers with more than 300GB of data and costs $165 but it's still cheaper than having to upgrade your backup service for a year to cope with the initial upload. You can read more about this option here:

https://support.code42.com/CrashPlan/Latest/Backup/Seeded_Backup

Personally, when it comes to online, you need to weigh up the pros and cons. On the pros, you will have a safe online backup at a remote location not effected by fire. It still does not negate your requirement for a local backup because we all know the potential of services being hacked.

[ktoopi]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I will review it all and weigh up my options. I still have the chance that the photos are on the separate drive I have that automatically backs up my computer. I don't really have time to sort it right now as I'm off to the States ......but will work it out when I get back in a few weeks. Once again thanks everyone.:)

[Warbler]

No, don't do this, Karen!!

Sorry Warbs, but NOT the /R option at this stage. The /R option will attempt to "repair" it. There may well be NOTHING wrong with it at all.

And what's wrong with that AM? No need to hit the panic button in such dramatic fashion.

[ameerat42]

...First things first Karen.
Don't use the drive. Don't send any more data to it, or try to fix it in any way(yet)...



And what's wrong with that AM? No need to hit the panic button in such dramatic fashion.

Warbs, in agreement with AK, I tried to convey the idea to not attempt to write to the drive until sure that it had a problem, and hopefully identified
so that a proper course of action might be taken.

The use of large letters was to grab Karen's attention. It was not to cast aspersions on your advice, and in my same post, and in the quote you made,
this had been - I would have thought - made apparent.

Again, no big deal intended, but I would contest the latter description in your post.

Don't forget, people can disagree on forums, as long as they give reasons. If I have been wrong, I'm happy to hear about it.
Am.

[Warbler]

Whilst not wishing to get into any arguments on this I will explain why I gave the advice I did. Karen says "I plug it in and NOTHING. It says that there is nothing on it and all of the space is available!!" The disc itself is not faulty, but maybe the FAT or NTFS or whatever file system on the disc is corrupted and just not able to read the files according to their address.

CHKDSK reads this and tries to correct it if you choose the /f or /r options. It doesn't attempt to repair the files or the hardware, it attempts to repair the header info that points to the file segments. This is already "broken" if the files haven't been deleted because you'd be able to see them if it wasn't. The difference between the /f and /r parameters is that /f option stays withing the header area and the /r option actually reads the entire hard drive. It is possible that the /f will not find a problem, but the /r will. In any case CHKDSK only write to the header area and won't change your files.

Here's one quick link that explains much better than I can or have the inclination to do anyway. As with all advice on these fora, take it or leave it.

http://askleo.com/checking-and-repairing-a-disk-with-chkdsk/

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Crossed post AM.

[ameerat42]

OK Warbs. Let's just say that I was opting for the CHKDSK command alone to check only.
I have plugged drives in and have had no response as well, - not even a USB connection. But a subsequent attachment has made them work.
Thanks for the link, btw. To me it doesn't indicate you must use a repair option, even though it shows that box ticked.

And what argument?

Ultimately it's up to Karen to take any advice offered.
Am.

[MissionMan]

OK Warbs. Let's just say that I was opting for the CHKDSK command alone to check only.
I have plugged drives in and have had no response as well, - not even a USB connection. But a subsequent attachment has made them work.
Thanks for the link, btw. To me it doesn't indicate you must use a repair option, even though it shows that box ticked.

And what argument?

Ultimately it's up to Karen to take any advice offered.
Am.

He is correct in one respect. If the drive is damaged and Karen intends using a professional service to recover the data, this could further damage the drive and reduce the chances of recovering the data.

My guess is that she should wait until she finds out whether she has backup copies of the data. If not, she may want to seek professional advice to recover the data depending on the importance. If the data is not critical and she isn't prepared to spend a $1000 to recover it, she can try other avenues of repairing the disk etc. If the data is critical and she doesn't want to risk losing it (photos of her kids that cannot be recovered), then seeking professional advice and having it done properly BEFORE doing anything could mean the difference between recovering the data or not.

[Warbler]

Well advice on the web is divided too on using CHKDSK, so no problem there. I think I can hear tapping coming from AK's direction, but I might be mistaken. Of course take it to a professional. They'll copy your data onto a new drive anyway, so when you get the old one back, run CHKDSK anyway to see if it has any bad sectors.

[arthurking83]

LOL!(tapping finalised :D)

My preference when recovering a failed HDD is to never write to the disk itself, but always to another disk.
I've read howtos which have described cloning the failed drive first, as a precaution.

I don't do this for a living, but only as a help service to friends and family(and sometimes work!) .. but more usually, my son! :p

Of all the software tools I've tried over the years(including chkdsk) .. this Recuva program seems to do the trick nicely and easy to follow steps ..... for someone that's not so computer repair 'confident' an easy to use software solution is generally best.
Less repair confident folks seem to have very little patience(in my observations) .. and a situation like restarting/rebooting the computer 15mins into a chkdsk operation wouldn't be uncommon to see! ;)

The one thing I'm not particularly keen on with using something like chkdsk is that it recovers everything in a manner of speaking, and leaves unwanted files and folders(which could confuse the less confident user).
A more graphical approach to the problem, where you select the files that can be recovered is easier for the user to understand.
That is, if the user only wants to recover a small portion of a large store of data, and it makes it a quicker process overall .. then I think this is the best way forward.

[ktoopi]

Just a final note to this saga .......I eventually took my hard drive to a computer shop to recover the lost files and they reckon that there was nothing on it in the first place and that there is nothing wrong with the hard drive :confused013 I know I triple checked that the files were on there before I deleted the photos off my c drive:confused013:confused013:confused013 Sigh.....they insinuated that I was an idiot that didn't know what I was doing grrrrrr I am to a degree but I know the files were there or I would never have deleted off my c drive and emptied the trash!

[MissionMan]

Have you tried undelete tools? there are some tools that allow you to recover data after it's been deleted and removed from the trash, I recovered data that was deleted 3 years ago on a drive I tested it with.

If it's for Mac, Data Rescue was the best tool I could find. If you are using Mac, send me a PM. I bought a software bundle that included it when I already own a copy so you are welcome to have the spare copy at no charge.

[ameerat42]

Geez, Karen! I hope you didn't have to pay (much) for the insinuation. (Also, they may have been less than competent!)
Did they listen to you? If you told them what you said here it's clear enough.

Anywhere else you can try? - Presuming the HDD is in the same state as before.

If I were more competent at this I'd offer to help, but I wouldn't dare. Anywhere else you can go?

Hope it fixes soon.
Am.

[ktoopi]

My husband took it to the computer guru at his office who said there was nothing on the drive in the first place and then took it to the computer shop his work uses all the time and they said the same thing and no they didn't charge thank goodness:)

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Also not sure I could recover anything from deleted files off my c drive as the hard drive is full again which is why I pulled out the external hard drive in the first place to empty my C drive ( photos ) onto it as it was only about half full or so I thought.

[ameerat42]

Hh(sigh)mm! A saga!! A stray thought entered as I re-read the whole thread. Did you originally put those images on SOME OTHER drive???
:) if so. :confused013 if not.

Certainly now you'll be wanting to make space on the C: drive of your computer. I'd be putting that external HDD aside and using another one, I think.

Recently, $79 got you a 1TB WD Passport (USB3) from Officeworks. They may have gone up a bit again. If looking at these, look for the cheaper one that has NO software (of not much use)
on it. You pay a bit more for the S/W. Also a good brand I recently got was the Toshiba Canvio (same type as WD) for a like sum.

Sure is mysterious if you are certain you backed them up in the 1st place. I'd run a recovery prog over that one at some stage to see if you can
glean some file history from it.
Am.

[MissionMan]

My husband took it to the computer guru at his office who said there was nothing on the drive in the first place and then took it to the computer shop his work uses all the time and they said the same thing and no they didn't charge thank goodness:)

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Also not sure I could recover anything from deleted files off my c drive as the hard drive is full again which is why I pulled out the external hard drive in the first place to empty my C drive ( photos ) onto it as it was only about half full or so I thought.

You'd be surprised what you can recover from your C Drive. If you run a decent program on it, it allows you to copy them to an external but when I ran the test on mine, it identified twice as much data as the drive can hold. I know it seems impossible but there is electronic residue left behind when you overwrite data and it is still possible to recover it. Its one of the reasons why a secure erase requires you to overwrite the drive 7 times in a row to make sure nothing is left.

I'd also run one of these programs on your external as even with a reformat of the drive, you could still pick up any data that may have been overwritten.

I'm going to be in Sydney on Thursday next week so I'm happy for you to bring the drive to the hotel and we could run a test on it. Alternatively, if your C drive is a laptop, we could also test on that.

[ktoopi]

Very kind offer MissionMan.....unfortunately I am unable to get to the city on Thursday due to a prior engagement.....I'll be staying in the city next Friday night though!! LOL I'll get my husbands computer guy to do what you suggested and my C drive is not a laptop so not all that portable. I have copies of all the files I lost on DVD as I did do a second back up ......that is a second copy of almost all the files I lost! It seems that I didn't quite get around to copying 2011's photos to DVD as well so not as bad as it could have been! :D

[bricat]

Without being rude you have had 2 computer experts tell you there is nothing on the drive. So you have an empty drive to use(copy a few test files across first) and a "C" drive that needs some attention in an attempt to recover your data. As MM said you would be surprised what is left on your HD after you delete data/photo's. Good luck cheers Brian

[RubyKatz]

Firstly thanks Ktoopi for sharing the problem in the first place. This is something I always dread will happen, I have been backing up to different externals for awhile, I too many years ago dropped an external and paid the ultimate price, now when we travel with them I wrap them in bubble wrap. I learned many things in this thread watching the advice you were given, apart from the occurrence between the two members on the use of large font, this thread was very worthwhile. Putting all that to one side they each gave great advice too.

This is a lesson to us all, if you love it save it in several different mediums, I have reverse engineered your method, I didn't trust my DVD's would survive so I have transferred all that info onto externals, also I have copied old VHS movies to externals as well because they are fading and that technology will die out pretty soon.

A friend of mine shared a story the other day, they know of someone that keeps all their data on the jump drives, not so silly when you think of it, this way even though they are smaller than the large externals now being offered if there was a fault you would only lose say a months worth and not a years worth of data. I envisaged a fishing tackle box of some description for storage purposes, I guess it is worth a thought to attempt this method too just for peace of mind :)

[MissionMan]

Firstly thanks Ktoopi for sharing the problem in the first place. This is something I always dread will happen, I have been backing up to different externals for awhile, I too many years ago dropped an external and paid the ultimate price, now when we travel with them I wrap them in bubble wrap. I learned many things in this thread watching the advice you were given, apart from the occurrence between the two members on the use of large font, this thread was very worthwhile. Putting all that to one side they each gave great advice too.

This is a lesson to us all, if you love it save it in several different mediums, I have reverse engineered your method, I didn't trust my DVD's would survive so I have transferred all that info onto externals, also I have copied old VHS movies to externals as well because they are fading and that technology will die out pretty soon.

A friend of mine shared a story the other day, they know of someone that keeps all their data on the jump drives, not so silly when you think of it, this way even though they are smaller than the large externals now being offered if there was a fault you would only lose say a months worth and not a years worth of data. I envisaged a fishing tackle box of some description for storage purposes, I guess it is worth a thought to attempt this method too just for peace of mind :)

I'd make the suggestion that you create an online backup as well. Some of the online backup tools now offer the ability to have everything sent to them on hard drive and then it maintains the online backup after that using your internet connection. The problem with externals is that if your house burns down, you've lost everything because generally your external and your laptop/desktop are together.

[ameerat42]

I...The problem with externals is that if your house burns down, you've lost everything because generally your external and your laptop/desktop are together...

This is definitely a drawback!! And that's not to mention floods, earthquakes, meteorite strikes, and invasions of ooze-secreting toads! (Who'd want to clean up an oozed drive?):eek:
Oh, and hacking of on-line data!

Only one conclusion, don't store ANYTHING:rolleyes:

[MissionMan]

This is definitely a drawback!! And that's not to mention floods, earthquakes, meteorite strikes, and invasions of ooze-secreting toads! (Who'd want to clean up an oozed drive?):eek:
Oh, and hacking of on-line data!

Only one conclusion, don't store ANYTHING:rolleyes:


No need to be sarcastic. How about a pipe in your ceiling bursting and destroying all your electronics which happens often and has happened to someone in our apartment block during a heavy storm where the rooftop water drainage blocked and the ceiling collapsed? They lost every single bit of electronic data they have.

How many times do you see fires where people say they lost EVERYTHING including all their photos?

Using multiple locations to backup your data is not a ridiculous idea, nor is it expensive. A lot of companies offer free online storage or low cost ($5/month).

As for hacking, if someone wants to hack online copies of my photos, go for it or if you take the kinds of photos that you don't want leaked, don't put them in the cloud.

[ameerat42]

Sarcasm? That's not funny.:(
If my post was also not funny - a compendium of drawbacks of HDDs and a drawback of cloud storage doesn't have to be, I suppose - does it automatically become sarcastic?
(Can't a person list a drawback of a suggestion?:o)

Now, you posted two replies, so what is the answer, cloud, or no cloud?

[MissionMan]

Sarcasm? That's not funny.:(
If my post was also not funny - a compendium of drawbacks of HDDs and a drawback of cloud storage doesn't have to be, I suppose - does it automatically become sarcastic?
(Can't a person list a drawback of a suggestion?:o)

Now, you posted two replies, so what is the answer, cloud, or no cloud?

You used the sarcastic roll eyes (actually called "Roll eyes Sarcastic" if you hover your mouse above it) so yes, it does automatically come across as sarcastic. :D

On the answer of cloud or no cloud, the answer is both. My personal perspective is you need a combination of both. Yes, the risk of one of them getting completely destroyed is low, but would you really take that risk with something that is irreplaceable?

[Kym]

Keep a monthly hard drive copy of everything at work or grannies or anywhere "off site" - simple

[ktoopi]

Keep a monthly hard drive copy of everything at work or grannies or anywhere "off site" - simple

That's why I backed up to DVD as well as external hard drive......I keep the DVD's at my husbands office :) I am now looking into cloud storage as well :)

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Just a shame that I forgot to back up to DVD one years worth of photos!!:eek: The rest are recoverable:)

- - - Updated - - -

Just a shame that I forgot to back up to DVD one years worth of photos!!:eek: The rest are recoverable:)

[MissionMan]

That's why I backed up to DVD as well as external hard drive......I keep the DVD's at my husbands office :) I am now looking into cloud storage as well :)

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Just a shame that I forgot to back up to DVD one years worth of photos!!:eek: The rest are recoverable:)

- - - Updated - - -

Just a shame that I forgot to back up to DVD one years worth of photos!!:eek: The rest are recoverable:)

Only thing to be weary of with DVD is the dyes fade so they don't have quite as long a life as they claim and I would not rely on them as a long term preservation (i.e. more than 10 years) without moving them to newer media. Probably worth moving the data to bluray in 5-10 years and then to whatever newer technology appears after that.

[bitsnpieces]

I haven't read all the comments yet (don't have a lot of time) but just thought I'd throw it out there.

There is a virus/spyware going around in Asia (or at least Cambodia and Vietnam where I am) where it hides your files, and makes it look like there's nothing. Or, when you open the folder that's listed, it deletes it (but that's only a fake folder to scare you), etc
If the computer shows the harddrive with data on it, but when you go into it, there's nothing, then my guess is this could be it.

Check Show hidden files and uncheck Hide protected system files, you should be able to see the files now.
Use Avast to delete the virus/spyware (or any other program that is up to date)
Open up Command Prompt, type attrib -h -r -s /s /d h:\*.* (substitute h for the drive letter of your harddrive/memory card/etc)

All fixed

Good luck

[ameerat42]

Happened to me once. Years ago. Ta for reminding me.

[RubyKatz]

Also if you are into sharing, I am also saving copies and giving them to my siblings, so we all have a copy of my parents photos dating back to the early 20th century. They can then pass this legacy down to their children and this way it ensures the precious memories are all kept safe. Online storage areas bother me a little just because of privacy issues and ongoing cost. Not that I will ever be famous or take obscene photos that I am scared will be leaked to the media.