Changing brands

[Lurchorama]

This is a post I put up on my blog (http://darksideofthepants.net/blog/2013/changing-brands/) today, hope its ok to post here too.

Changing Brands

http://darksideofthepants.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/penikon.jpg

Changing brands in most things isn’t a huge deal. In motorcycling for instance we tend to have our favorite brand (eg: Kawasaki) but I’ve owned Honda and Yamaha and currently ride a Suzuki Bandit. Video gamers are a little more hard-core however, but once the new range of models come out its not unusual for someone to go from Sony to Microsoft or vice-versa.


Cameras are a different kettle of fish. When you start out with a DSLR you’re buying into a system. Over the years you invest (usually too much) money in lenses and all kinds of accessories that are generally specific for that brand. So when it comes to upgrading your camera you have to think long and hard about changing brands and starting that collection all over again. You will also have to learn all over again all the eccentricities of that brand (which can be fun mind you).


I’ve had this issue recently. I love my K5, I really do. But with Pentax still sitting on their hands regarding a full frame camera, it offered no upgrade path. And I like new toys. So I had to decide; Do I keep the K5 and hope the big P finally gets their shit together, or Do I jump ship to a brand that does have a solid way forward.
It’s tough.


So I had a deal all in place to trade to a Nikon D7000. I read review after review on the camera for nights on end. Spec wise its easily on par with the K5. Both have attributes that are better and worse in comparison, but essentially are equivalents.
But I never got a sense of “wow” about it. With all the excitement over the D600 and now the D5200; it’s like it got lost in the middle somewhere. I still intended to push forward with this deal; but the brain just couldn’t convince the heart that it was the right thing to do.
I couldn’t get excited about the prospect.
I even went into the local Teds store to have a play with one. Now, I dont want to take ANYTHING away from the D7000; it is truly a fantastic camera and if I was looking to a) change brands, and b) upgrade from something older; I’d be all over it like a fat kid on candy.


Today however I did the opposite. I went and re-read a whole stack of reviews about the K5. It reminded myself why it is such a great camera and why the industry really jumped up when it was released. It also made me realize that in the two questions I asked myself before (Keep or Jump ship) there was a third.
Just be happy (at least for a bit).
So I sent a message to the poor guy with the D7000 with my apologies and an offer to pay for the service he just had on it. I then pulled the K5 out of its bag and we running around the house chasing the dog, just for fun.

So whats the moral to this story? If you’re feeling like an upgrade, it’s probable that you’re actually more than happy with what you have. Go back and read all the reviews on your camera; it will help get you excited about it again.

[ameerat42]

What!!! And send the camera companies broke instead of perpetrating your own bankruptcy???
(Sage advice, though!)

And I've been thinking what a Lurchorama format might be? Surely 9:16 aspect ratio but vertically oriented! Probably with a few stitched frames.
:Dm.

[Kym]

I've been tempted to go Nikon, but I have worked happily with Pentax since the 70's.
I still use glass from the 70's.

FF is not big deal to me as I get all I need from APS-C, but now Ricoh is in the picture there should be a 35mm offering later this year.

The K-5 is a really excellent unit, I'm very tempted to get a K-5 IIs, Nel (SWMBO) has already said ok :)

There is of course a MF in the 645D if you need a serious studio/landscape camera. Canikon don't have that.

Changing brands is expensive! Body + lenses + flash + spare batteries etc.

[Lurchorama]

This might seem odd, but the K5II/s was a reason FOR switching brands for me.
It really gave me a sense of "Huh? Really?? Thats the best youve got to offer?".
It just has 'stop-gap' written all over it in my mind. Yes; there are improvements, but just no enough to justify coming from the K5-Classic.
If I was still running my GX20 (K20D) I'd consider it. But on that; with the price of the K5-Classic dropped for run-out - I'd still be tempted by the Classic. In fact I was; I went from a K7 to my K5 classic in November :)

The 645D tho... *drool*. Excuse me while I got and try and sell a kidney.

[Kym]

The IIs sans AA filter is a plus for me.
The II and IIs are obviously interim.
I'd expect a 35mm and new APS-C (with an s option) later this year if things go to plan.

[Lurchorama]

In that case I'll probably wait for the bugs to get worked out of the FF and the traditional Pentax, 6month price drop to occur :)

[Kym]

:D

http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/cp-2013-interview-with-pentax.html

[Lurchorama]

Yeah, but knowing Pentax; they'll then come out with something REALLY left field, like a 5D3-priced MF - lol

[Wayne]

There is of course a MF in the 645D if you need a serious studio/landscape camera. Canikon don't have that.



Nikon brings death to MF with the D800.

[Lurchorama]

How so?

[Wayne]

36.3 MP in a DSLR FX body that has faster frame rate, better ISO performance, 4.5x the number of focus points all at almost 1/4 the price of a 645D.

[arthurking83]

Nikon brings death to MF with the D800.


LOL!..... pixels aren't everything!

And if they are, then 36 million of them still is no comparison to the 40 million that the 645 has ... let alone the 60-80 million that is also available to those in need!


D800 has done no such thing.

[Cage]

I've recently done your contemplated brand swap moving from a K5 to a D600.

I was a little underwhelmed with the K5 and actually liked my previous K20D much more.

However I have to tell you that the D600 is in a different league to the K5, FF aside. It just does everything I hoped it would, and does it well.

It was a big decision for me too as I had also accumulated a fair collection of Pentax glass, but I have absolutely no regrets with my decision to switch camps.

Oh and BTW, I still have the 1200 Bandit I bought new early 1997. Other than being a bit of a handful in the tight twisties it has done everything I've asked of it. It's a great tourer and I can sit on it all day.

[Lurchorama]

I think the D600 is another step up again from the D7000 I was looking it. Had I had the finances to trade up to something like that; it may have been a different story.
There are still some things that shit me about the K5 tho, primarily the inability to just walk into a shop and get "stuff" for it. But that goes for any Pentax. I'm too much of an impulse buying for that not to get annoying.

As for the 645 vs D800, well the 645 is the best we have in Pentax World at the moment, so let us just have that :)

Regarding the Bandit tho, I wish I had ridden one earlier. I never bothered because they always looked so... Well, boring. But late last year I test rode a 2006 (last of the oil boilers) and I had to have it. Sold my M109r and haven't looked back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Smoke signals.

[JM Tran]

36.3 MP in a DSLR FX body that has faster frame rate, better ISO performance, 4.5x the number of focus points all at almost 1/4 the price of a 645D.

2 completely different things, 645D offers 16 bit, greater DR, much larger sensor and colours. Not really 2 cameras one should even need to bother comparing, megapixels dont mean anything, sensor size is.

I'll say this again, as I have many times - you havent really owned Pentax until you have owned some of its FA and DA Limited primes.

[Wayne]

greater DR, much larger sensor and colours

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Pentax/645D
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D800-Review/Sensor-performance

;)

[JM Tran]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Pentax/645D
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D800-Review/Sensor-performance

;)

Come back and let me know your own personal experiences using 645D and D800/E and Phase Ones and Hassies instead of pointing me to a site that a lot of pros have stopped taking it seriously a long time ago. Numbers and graphs are pretty cool, to some.

Otherwise many photographers and rental companies around the world would have simply swapped over to the awesome D800 a long time ago, no? Much, much cheaper to buy or rent dont you think.

If you want to play the internet links game thing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UBTE4xpvpk - MF always wins on skin tones and colour depth. among many things. I and many others have not been fully happy with the skin tones on D800/E.

[Lurchorama]

ANYWAY...
Sorry guys, this wasn't meant to be a 'Pro Pentax/Anti Nikon'. It was meant to be Pro: Be happy with what you have.

[ameerat42]

Lurch. It's lucky we don't speak French!
Gomez.

[Redback200]

What's the need to change brands once you have decided? I get the impression for most people it's just because another brand has just released a new camera with something new that looks good on paper. I'm not a fanboy. Bought Canon because people I know have canon and I could have have borrowed their lenses. My camera is getting a bit old and well I'm not 100% happy with some of the photos it's producing. So I think it's time for an upgrade. But I'm not going to jump camp, that's too expensive. I'm just going to wait until they bring out a new camera with what I want on it. From what I have read, there's a pretty good chance that this year will have those features.

[Lurchorama]

What's the need to change brands once you have decided? I get the impression for most people it's just because another brand has just released a new camera with something new that looks good on paper. I'm not a fanboy. Bought Canon because people I know have canon and I could have have borrowed their lenses. My camera is getting a bit old and well I'm not 100% happy with some of the photos it's producing. So I think it's time for an upgrade. But I'm not going to jump camp, that's too expensive. I'm just going to wait until they bring out a new camera with what I want on it. From what I have read, there's a pretty good chance that this year will have those features.

Well in regards to Pentax; its possible to simply get itchy for something new. And when there hasn't been anything *really* new since 2010; well....

[Rattus79]

The k52/s isn't that big a step up from the k5, but I have to say that I'm still super impressed by the quality of the k5!

Sure, the viewfinder isn't as bright as a 5d3's, sure, it doesn't have as many megapixels as a d800, but GEEZ it's good in low light! and the DR is phenonomonal!

Pentax have always gone for a more natural look to their images, theyre usually less saturated straight out of camera then the Canikon equivalents, but once you get that DNG (which I love having a dng workflow!) into lightroom and start pushing the sliders a little, the ammount of lattitude afforded from the hightlights and shadows is amazing!

I came to the k5 from the k10 and the diffrence is noticable with a glance! the colour transitions and gradients are so much smoother, and there is way more detail with WAY less noise (even with in camera NR turned off!)

Last time I upgraded because I'd hit the limitations of what the k10 could offer. I'm yet to find a limitation that the k5 can't surpass.

I will happily be keeping my k5 until Pentax releases a FF



On a side note: I thought the D7000 and the k5 shared the same sony sensor?

[Lurchorama]

On a side note: I thought the D7000 and the k5 shared the same sony sensor?

They do have the same sensor; its the individual internal processors that make the difference (as far as I am aware)

[arthurking83]

Yep! same sensor, different CPU processing system.

From an outsider's POV, it would be annoying watching Nikon first, and then Sony(Minolta) go FF in such a short period .. after such a long period of absence, since Digital became so affordable and popular.

It's not as tho they didn't have the hardware available to them(Sony sensors).

Doesn't really make sense, and as Sony then Nikon, and as always Canon have all shown, a cheap (or semi affordable) full frame DSLR doesn't actually cost all that much more than an APS-C sized camera.
Maybe the margin's in a full frame DSLR is less than that of an APS-C, and Pentax never saw the numbers as 'adding up' or something :confused013

They obviously haven't jumped on the Sony 24Mp APS-C sensor bandwagon, as Nikon sort of have. Again .. could be a cost/price or questionable engineering investment issue.

It's going to be interesting to see where they go too from here now, as well.

[wedgtail]

I did jump ship to the D600 but have kept my K5 with Da 40 and 70 lens combo , I work quite a bit with low light event work the K5 was good for this work . the turning point for me was the offer of more work with a group of Photog's all Nikon users so the ability to pool lens came into it as well. Not mentioning pixle difference the D600 view finder is bright and clear in low light , focus 39 points all pluses for the type of photography I do.

[Rattus79]

They obviously haven't jumped on the Sony 24Mp APS-C sensor bandwagon, as Nikon sort of have. Again .. could be a cost/price or questionable engineering investment issue.


The rumors I heard was that it would ba a 24 meg FF sensor, but there was some speculation about a 24 meg aps-c body around the time of the k5II

[Lurchorama]

Who knows; perhaps Pentax might come with to the FF market like they did with the MF market.

[Mark L]

Maybe FF's not as important as some think. :eek:

[JM Tran]

For Pentax to start targeting working professionals it would be ideal, I'd happily go back to Pentax for FF to be able to use the FA Limited primes again without a doubt.

Just like back in 2007 and 2008 when the prototype/mock 645D medium format was floating around, no one would have thought Pentax to go ahead and release it. But they did and it surprised everyone, at a good price point and excellent IQ.

[arthurking83]

Maybe FF's not as important as some think. :eek:

In this day and age when the DSLR is becoming a questionable design, any and all advantages over mirrorless/P&S/phonecams are going to be a precious commodity!

I can foresee a day in the not too distant future, when most DSLR's(sales) will be FF, and the minority will be APS-C based.

If a cheaper, more compact and similarly capable camera can do what the DSLR do .. which one do you think the consumer is most likely to purchase .. especially as the manufacturer will be pushing for them to purchase the smaller compact, less costly to build mirrorless compact!

While there is no reason to think that compacts won't ever have FF sensors(ie. Sony RX-1), I reckon they'll be much harder to build with the same quality(of output) as a FF DSLR, or at least build cheaply.

If Pentax is rumoured to be readying a full frame sensored camera, are Pentax folk more likely to stay or switch?

And of those that have already switched(recently), would you feel disappointed in some way .. not dwelling on it .. just a slight sense of I wished I stayed with Pentax.

I'm not overly familiar with Pentax's line of lenses, and apparently they have some great lenses out there, but do they have enough variety?

ie. 70/80-400/4-5.6 for relatively cheap 70-200/2.8, 200/2 .. etc, etc.

That is is it simply the camera itself or are there other reasons to switch as well.

Me personally, 645D is about as ideal a camera as I'd like to see Nikon produce.
Give me access to $20K, I'd easily have a 645 and two or three lenses to suit(well at least a 25 and a 55) :th3:

[Nezero]

Being a Pentax user, I agree with the fact that it's just hard to get accessories that just work.
For example wireless triggers, I bought K30 (from Kx) but I'm thinking whether I should have jumped at that point to a D7000 or similar.
Oh well.

[Rattus79]

Being a Pentax user, I agree with the fact that it's just hard to get accessories that just work.
For example wireless triggers, I bought K30 (from Kx) but I'm thinking whether I should have jumped at that point to a D7000 or similar.
Oh well.

When it comes to triggers, just get the Canon ones. You won't get wakeup commands, but they will work, without misfires. Don't get the nikon ones. Same pin pattern, different assingments!

I do hope that Pentax is going to release a FF body, although I will just have to go looking for a new WA (sigma 10-20 no good on a FF body) and a 24-70 too!
I won't care thought, because a 50 1.4 on a FF is a totally different lens then one on a APS-C

[mechawombat]

I have done the change of brands. I learnt on the Sony/Minolta brand. It is great for some photography but I out grew it and needed to upgrade. I have a tonne of minolta glass and held out for the A77 as my next camera only to be unimpressed once I got my hands on it. I looked at the alternatives, K5, 7d and the D7000. I,was not impressed with the 7d so it left me with Pentax or Nikon. I chose the Nikon. Mainly due to the name. At the time Pentax were looking shaky so Nikon it was. It was a massive outlay but spreading out the cost of acquiring new bits over the last year has helped and forces me to make do with the gear I have which in turn meant I got even more creative.