Purchased a Grey Market camera recently? Is it GENUINE?

[ricktas]

An issue has currently arisen and is being investigated by Canon. In the UK a person purchased a Canon 5DIII from a grey market selling out of Hong Kong. When the camera had an operational issue, they contacted the seller and were advised to take their camera to Canon UK for service. This is where the issues began. Canon UK contacted the customer and advised they would not fix the camera as the serial number on the camera was not valid, the serial number plate was counterfeit.

Over the past few days an investigation has started and the source of the issue has been traced back to Canon Hong Kong.

At this time it appears that Canon Hong Kong, without telling the retailers it sold cameras to, has taken refurbished stock or new stock and re-serial numbered them and sold them as new. The retailers (grey marketers in this instance) were completely unaware of this issue.

If you have purchased a grey market camera recently, check the serial number on the camera plate to the serial number available in the EXIF of your camera. If they are different, contact your retailer immediately.

Below are two images of a Canon 5D MkIII. Note how the C and the A of the genuine plate are touching. Note how the serial number on the counterfeit plate has not got the numbers evenly placed and at the same height.

At this time, how extensive this issue is, is not known, but your grey retailer was not aware of this issue, but they should be able to advise you of what to do, now this has become apparent.

GENUINE
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/32374_10151168591858645_645603718_n.jpg

FAKE
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/481649_10151168593028645_2127830822_n.jpg

NOTE : These are not my photos, but placed here to show you the issue

[danny]

Wow. Better check my D7000... Just in case

[arthurking83]

Firstly, the No. (real serial) and NO. (fake serial) are different between the two plates too.
Secondly and more importantly, is where and why are/have CanonHK been getting their source bodies from.
The obvious answer would be returns and refurbs, but in reality how large is this 'returns' market?

Canon HK must surely have one of if not the largest volume of sales of any of the Canon importers networks, as it seems HK is the centre of the global universe when it comes to electronic consumer items(especially high priced stuff like cameras and such).
If the only source was these returned faulty cameras, then this problem, whilst serious, can't be that widespread, otherwise the implication would be that Canon camera bodies have a massive failure rate in percentage terms.
So the next question is; have Canon HK been modding real deal Canon cameras to hide them from the Canon sales figures for some reason?

I know that Canon have asked the HK distributor to cease supplying grey bodies to the HK grey retailers for the purpose of this massive Grey marketplace.
I'm sure I read that Nikon is in the midst of forcing strict regionalisation of it's distributor network too.. where US based companies are not allowed too sell to overseas markets.

Considering the volumes that Canon HK must surely be moving, it looks to be a ploy by the distributor to circumvent Canon's wishes.
And where there is one bad apples, it surely must follow that there is an entire orchard full of rotten apples and trees and their root systems .. I can imagine that the Nikon distributor had probably invented this marketing solution to maintain market position, but they weren't smart enough to patent the idea.

I'm sure action will be taken against Canon HK soon enough.

[ameerat42]

SHOT! What a skim!
They oughta be! With a real (sounds like Canon).

[agb]

Interesting that you say it was Canon HK, my reading of the issue elsewhere made me think that it was another supplier who was doing the label change. If it was Canon HK doing it then that is not good. But how dumb were they .They could not even get the serial numbers on the body to match the serial numbers on the exif of the photos.

[ricktas]

Interesting that you say it was Canon HK, my reading of the issue elsewhere made me think that it was another supplier who was doing the label change. If it was Canon HK doing it then that is not good. But how dumb were they .They could not even get the serial numbers on the body to match the serial numbers on the exif of the photos.


I have more information than is available 'elsewhere'. Which is why I have not named any grey stores involved. What I have as extra information is only partly divulged here as an investigation is still current, I have to be careful what I announce publicly at this time. However, from the information I have, this is outside the control of the grey marketers. They purchased their stock in good faith. I agree that the grey marketer involved in the UK matter directly may have been able to deal with the matter in a better manner, but at the same time they needed to investigate what was going on here. For all they knew the purchaser could have been the one who changed the serial plate. They needed proof before they could do anything.

[Kym]

Be careful with any posts in this thread!
Please don't quote any other random Web posts.

There are a LOT of rumours flying on the web, mostly only (at best) partially correct.

Rick will post as he gets more information that can be substantiated and published without legal entanglements.

[JSP]

My Dad just gave me a heart attack!!! :eek: about this post...... My new 5D Mk III is genuine though :th3:

[Cattleprod]

Looks like I've been stung... The serial on my new 5Diii doesn't match the EXIF serial.... I had noticed that the sticker wasn't lined up very well.... What should I do about this Rick?? :confused013

[agb]

Looks like I've been stung... The serial on my new 5Diii doesn't match the EXIF serial.... I had noticed that the sticker wasn't lined up very well.... What should I do about this Rick?? :confused013

Immediately notify your supplier.

[ricktas]

Looks like I've been stung... The serial on my new 5Diii doesn't match the EXIF serial.... I had noticed that the sticker wasn't lined up very well.... What should I do about this Rick?? :confused013

As above. Contact the company you purchased from.

[Mark L]

Looks like I've been stung... The serial on my new 5Diii doesn't match the EXIF serial.... I had noticed that the sticker wasn't lined up very well.... What should I do about this Rick?? :confused013

And if the camera is working okay, keep taking photos, and don't stress to much. Would be nice if you could get a new ...... camera though.

[ricktas]

And if the camera is working okay, keep taking photos, and don't stress to much. Would be nice if you could get a new ...... camera though.

BUT..if the camera needs a service or repair in future, Canon will not do it! That is the issue here.

[Cattleprod]

I've contacted the supplier, will see what they say... I will keep you posted :cool:

[mongo]

As a general point people should note that if you live in NSW and purchase an item from a retailer anywhere in Australia and the goods are supplied to you in NSW, then, if the goods are not as described eg, new or a genuine product form a particular manufacturer eg canon or nikon etc, you have recourse against the retailer direct. It makes no difference that it is described as "grey market". If the goods are sold as , say, a new Canon.......then, it must be new and a genuine Canon etc. If you live in other states, those states throughout Australia may have very similar consumer legislation but you should check with the equivalent of the Department of Fair Trading in your specific state to confirm this.

It seems better to avoid the problem if you can to begin with by buying from a reputable source, asking for the serial number of the goods you are about to buy (before you buy) and check with the manufacturer that it is one of theirs before you buy etc

[Tommo1965]

Firstly, the No. (real serial) and NO. (fake serial) are different between the two plates too.
Secondly and more importantly, is where and why are/have CanonHK been getting their source bodies from.
The obvious answer would be returns and refurbs, but in reality how large is this 'returns' market?

Canon HK must surely have one of if not the largest volume of sales of any of the Canon importers networks, as it seems HK is the centre of the global universe when it comes to electronic consumer items(especially high priced stuff like cameras and such).
If the only source was these returned faulty cameras, then this problem, whilst serious, can't be that widespread, otherwise the implication would be that Canon camera bodies have a massive failure rate in percentage terms.
So the next question is; have Canon HK been modding real deal Canon cameras to hide them from the Canon sales figures for some reason?

I know that Canon have asked the HK distributor to cease supplying grey bodies to the HK grey retailers for the purpose of this massive Grey marketplace.
I'm sure I read that Nikon is in the midst of forcing strict regionalisation of it's distributor network too.. where US based companies are not allowed too sell to overseas markets.

Considering the volumes that Canon HK must surely be moving, it looks to be a ploy by the distributor to circumvent Canon's wishes.
And where there is one bad apples, it surely must follow that there is an entire orchard full of rotten apples and trees and their root systems .. I can imagine that the Nikon distributor had probably invented this marketing solution to maintain market position, but they weren't smart enough to patent the idea.

I'm sure action will be taken against Canon HK soon enough.

seems like a lot of agro to go to if you're only gonna re-badge one or two..getting those new labels made up wouldn't be the easiest thing in the world..not like nipping down to a local snap and having a few business cards knocked up

if they have gone to the trouble to do a con and risk a lot more than the odd refurbished body { which by the way they could have sold as refurb as Nikon do} then Id say the financial return would have to out weigh the potential fall out .....or they are just greedy stupid people

[Warbler]

Interesting that the "C" doesn't touch the "a" on my label, but the serial numbers match, and the serial on the label looks just like the labels on my other bodies. It works perfectly as well. Interested to see where this goes. I have no idea why they'd need to switch the label in the first place, refurb or not.

[ricktas]

Interesting that the "C" doesn't touch the "a" on my label, but the serial numbers match, and the serial on the label looks just like the labels on my other bodies. It works perfectly as well. Interested to see where this goes. I have no idea why they'd need to switch the label in the first place, refurb or not.

Cause the supplier has a contract with Canon that stipulates who they can/cannot sell to. Canon trying to control the market and eliminate grey sellers. From what I know, they have been swapping out serial numbers and then selling cameras to retailers that they have most likely been told not to, under their contract with Canon, in an attempt to stop Canon finding out they were breaching the contract.

Stupidly they seem to have forgotten that the serial number is also embedded in the camera data and hav been caught out. The fallout from this will be very interesting.

[Kym]

As a general point people should note that if you live in NSW and purchase an item from a retailer anywhere in Australia and the goods are supplied to you in NSW, then, if the goods are not as described eg, new or a genuine product form a particular manufacturer eg canon or nikon etc, you have recourse against the retailer direct. It makes no difference that it is described as "grey market". If the goods are sold as , say, a new Canon.......then, it must be new and a genuine Canon etc. If you live in other states, those states throughout Australia may have very similar consumer legislation but you should check with the equivalent of the Department of Fair Trading in your specific state to confirm this.

It seems better to avoid the problem if you can to begin with by buying from a reputable source, asking for the serial number of the goods you are about to buy (before you buy) and check with the manufacturer that it is one of theirs before you buy etc

Since 1/1/2011 Under the national consumer law this applies across Australia.
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/your_home.htm

[Papou]

:eek: Shyte must check out my 7D make sure its ridgydidge ey???......

- - - Updated - - -


Since 1/1/2011 Under the national consumer law this applies across Australia.
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/your_home.htm

Do these rights protect us against online purchases also???...Most important thing to know here ey..

[ricktas]

As a general point people should note that if you live in NSW and purchase an item from a retailer anywhere in Australia and the goods are supplied to you in NSW, then, if the goods are not as described eg, new or a genuine product form a particular manufacturer eg canon or nikon etc, you have recourse against the retailer direct. It makes no difference that it is described as "grey market". If the goods are sold as , say, a new Canon.......then, it must be new and a genuine Canon etc. If you live in other states, those states throughout Australia may have very similar consumer legislation but you should check with the equivalent of the Department of Fair Trading in your specific state to confirm this.

It seems better to avoid the problem if you can to begin with by buying from a reputable source, asking for the serial number of the goods you are about to buy (before you buy) and check with the manufacturer that it is one of theirs before you buy etc

Sure, but what if you buy from an overseas store, that has no office in Australia, and they ship you your new gear. This gear is not covered under Australian Law. The sale/contract for sale occurs in another country entirely and Fair Trading etc have zero jurisdiction over it.

[Kym]

Do these rights protect us against online purchases also???...Most important thing to know here ey..

ONLY if the online shop is Aussie, i.e. has an ABN !

[Papou]

Sussed out my 7D:th3:, i'm safe (hopefully lol)...And yes via Australian ourchase.

[mongo]

Sure, but what if you buy from an overseas store, that has no office in Australia, and they ship you your new gear. This gear is not covered under Australian Law. The sale/contract for sale occurs in another country entirely and Fair Trading etc have zero jurisdiction over it.

That is why Mongo prefaced his post with .......if you live in NSW and purchaser from a retailer anywhere in Australia....... Mongo's answer was not intended to cover OS retailers.

Also , Kym is right re online if it is an Australian online shop.

[Cattleprod]

Ok, have heard back from the supplier... This is what I got..
Hi there, the serial number for your item is 2952130####,please check it with canon, Canon body number is different to serial no. thank you, Responsed by Customer Care Team - Ada

Why on earth would they claim that the body number is different from the serial number??? :confused013

[ricktas]

That is why Mongo prefaced his post with .......if you live in NSW and purchaser from a retailer anywhere in Australia....... Mongo's answer was not intended to cover OS retailers.

Also , Kym is right re online if it is an Australian online shop.

Yes, but having a .com.au online shop does not classify it as Australian, it could be anywhere in the world. It is something that those less experienced need to know. So I merely tried to clarify that all may not be what it seems.

[ricktas]

Ok, have heard back from the supplier... This is what I got..
Hi there, the serial number for your item is 2952130####,please check it with canon, Canon body number is different to serial no. thank you, Responsed by Customer Care Team - Ada

Why on earth would they claim that the body number is different from the serial number??? :confused013

Call Canon on Monday and talk to them about it.

[Epoc]

To own a .com.au or .net.au domain name, you must be an Australian registered company or a business with a registered business number (ABN, BRN, BN). Doesn't matter where your business is located. Wouldn't that mean businesses using .com.au domains are governed by Aussie law?

[ricktas]

To own a .com.au or .net.au domain name, you must be an Australian registered company or a business with a registered business number (ABN, BRN, BN). Doesn't matter where your business is located. Wouldn't that mean businesses using .com.au domains are governed by Aussie law?

Try getting someone in Hong Kong who has set themselves up with an ABN and website, who has never set foot in Australia to comply with it.

[agb]

Ok, have heard back from the supplier... This is what I got..
Hi there, the serial number for your item is 2952130####,please check it with canon, Canon body number is different to serial no. thank you, Responsed by Customer Care Team - Ada

Why on earth would they claim that the body number is different from the serial number??? :confused013
I think it is a misunderstanding of what the problem is or the question is. I would try again with a different explanation of what has occurred overseas and what has been done about it. If Rick knows who the HongKong reseller who has done the swapping of the serial number plate and numbers perhaps he could help you with this information which would allow you to give a better explanation of what you are asking.

[kleinpark]

I hope that Australian retailers are doing checks on their Canon stock before they sell them on to customers/consumers :eek:.
Thanks for the heads-up Rick :th3: as I'm looking to purchase a new 5D Mk III body in the near future....I'm told :christmasparty: is bringing it :efelant:

[Epoc]

Try getting someone in Hong Kong who has set themselves up with an ABN and website, who has never set foot in Australia to comply with it.

If they wanna play in our market, they should pay if the @rap hits the fan. They are happy to take our strong $. If this kind of stuff happens, they should play by our rules. Sure, I doubt they would. Bet all it would take is burnt 1 person to go long haul and employ a decent mouthpiece and maybe their attitude would change.

[rpps]

I recently bought a Nikon D600 from a store in Hong Kong that sells on E-Bay and is pretty popular in Australia for gey market cameras. The camera arrived packed in a nice new box and all looked legitimate but stupid me didn't check the serial number, I just checked to see the shutter count which was 0. A few weeks later when I was cleaning my camera I noticed the label on the back had a serial number written with a biro and when I rubbed this the number came off. I then checked the Efix Data and sure enough the serial number there was totally different to what was written on the camera base and the box the camera came in.
I immediately phoned Paypal and opened a dispute and from correspondence with them they have ruled in my favour and it looks like I will get my $2000 back, it's just lucky I payed with Paypal and not with a credit card because I have some sort of protection as long as it's not more than 40 days.
I just can't recommend enough to check your Efix Data when your new camera arrives and also to use Paypal and not direct debit.
Just posting a photo of the false label on the base of my D600
95157

[mongo]

Yes, but having a .com.au online shop does not classify it as Australian, it could be anywhere in the world. It is something that those less experienced need to know. So I merely tried to clarify that all may not be what it seems.


Mongo understands what you are saying Rick.

As Mongo said, you need to be very careful who you are dealing with. If you known them to be an Australian retailer on line or otherwise , you are protected. But again, make your enquiries beforehand so you do not put yourself in a position of having to even call on that protection. Contact the website before buying and satisfy yourself if it is in Australia irrespective of its “.com.au” address - talk to them and ask for details of where they are located, where the goods will be shipped from etc etc . You just don’t do business with a “.com” address without asking a lot of questions and getting acceptable answers beforehand !! Mongo finds it unfathomable how people do otherwise these days ! If anyone is not prepared to do these things then, they need to be prepared for sometimes unfixable problems. Mongo’s advice - take that time and thus have a realistic (but not perfect) chance of not being stung.


Mongo has had extensive experience with consumer law/transactions and can tell you that the bad guys do well because the good guys do nothing sensible about at least trying to protect their own interests.


Mongo never buys anything of significance on line. He may risk $80 to $100 at most with unknown sellers. He buys excellent used gear from Matsuiyastore but they have a reputation second to none. That is why they have a 100% rating after over 13,000 sales. That sort of retailer would have no questions about refunding your money if it came to it. Even so, Mongo only pays with Paypal for ALL on line purchases as further protection.

Mongo noticed from the post immediately before this that it seems now not to be a Canon problem only and may be affecting far more products than anyone was previously aware of. More caution than ever is strongly advised

[Sifor]

I immediately phoned Paypal and opened a dispute and from correspondence with them they have ruled in my favour and it looks like I will get my $2000 back, it's just lucky I payed with Paypal and not with a credit card because I have some sort of protection as long as it's not more than 40 days.


So how does that work? I assume you then have to send the camera back to the retailer?

[Cattleprod]

I called Canon today re the different numbers on my 5D iii. They said that in ALL cases, the EXIF number should match the printed serial number on the label. The bloke wasn't interested in knowing either of the numbers as he said he can't tell me anything over the phone. He did say I could bring the body in and they would check it out.

I re-emailed the supplier and informed them about this (they had told me it is legit and to check with Canon) and told them they would have to take some action. Will see what happens...
:action:

[William]

The plot is getting thicker and Thicker, Someones in the Poo !! I'm guessing , We just bought a 5D mkIII grey of a AP sponsor , All good , Exif matches the Serial No , I wonder how big this is ?

[Cattleprod]

Next instalment... I'm starting to get the poos with my supplier... This is the latest response :

pls get this in writing from canon for this item, not a general verbal indication of "this type of situation is not right". as we need to prove to our supplier something is wrong, not just a untrusting customer. Also I found this website about a similar issue, pls confirm how the exif data is accessed. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3106575 , Responsed by Customer Care Team - Ada

And my reply... :

No, I'm not going to get it in writing from Canon. Lets get this clear.... The ELECTRONICALLY EMBEDDED serial number in the camera does not match the serial number on the body. It's as simple as that. There is an anomaly. Your supplier should know that the numbers should match. To call me an untrusting customer is offensive. Both Photoshop and the supplied software Canon Digital Photo Professional are reporting the serial number as 07802400####, while the serial number on the camera is 02952130####.


Will see what happens next :action:

[agb]

Next instalment... I'm starting to get the poos with my supplier... This is the latest response :

pls get this in writing from canon for this item, not a general verbal indication of "this type of situation is not right". as we need to prove to our supplier something is wrong, not just a untrusting customer. Also I found this website about a similar issue, pls confirm how the exif data is accessed. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3106575 , Responsed by Customer Care Team - Ada

And my reply... :

No, I'm not going to get it in writing from Canon. Lets get this clear.... The ELECTRONICALLY EMBEDDED serial number in the camera does not match the serial number on the body. It's as simple as that. There is an anomaly. Your supplier should know that the numbers should match. To call me an untrusting customer is offensive. Both Photoshop and the supplied software Canon Digital Photo Professional are reporting the serial number as 07802400####, while the serial number on the camera is 02952130####.


Will see what happens next :action:
Sorry to hear that you are not getting a good positive response to your concerns. I guess you also have to remember that you are probably dealing with someone who does not have English as the first language, though untrusting customer is a bit over the top. I have not read all of the link they provided but it does suggest that there has been some question about the ability of software to at all times correctly read the serial number in the exif data. That link was however for the 5DII. Perhaps you should interrogate the data with more than one software so that you can advise them that it is not a problem with the software reading the wrong exif. I guess you did point them to the threads on POTN and here. I read on POTN that there is another camera just come to light which also looks like it came from DigitaRev,though through their ebay site.
I do hope that you can soon get this sorted.
Pity you cannot just pick up the phone and call them.

[Cattleprod]

I can call them, they actually have an office in Sydney and an ABN... But I'm trying to keep an audit trail of communications. Will see what they come up with. (I'm not all that worried, I do have other options, and even if they all fail, the camera is still working fine.)
I've purposely not mentioned the company yet, I've bought stuff from them before, including a 7D body, and not had any problems.

[mongo]

Cattle prod, you have not said if you bought tHis from supplier in Australia. If you have, then, immediately lodge an application withe Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tirbunal. There is an office in Liverpool and they have hearings in Campbelltown. the application cost is about $35 but you need to check by calling Liverpool office and talking to them. anything else is a waste of time.

[Cattleprod]

Hi Mongo, the body came from Hong Kong, but the company is .com.au and openly publishes the ABN and a Sydney telephone number... It shouldn't be a problem going through CTTT, and my work takes me to the same floor in their building at Liverpool. I can also lodge a dispute with PayPal... I'm just seeing if they are going to come around to a reasonable resolution first. (reasonable for me would be getting a new camera). They sent me a message earlier today telling me they have queried thier supplier, should be interesting to see the response. They haven't been slack with emails and response times either, which I'm glad about.
Cheers, Dave.

[flashc]

I recently bought a Nikon D600 from a store in Hong Kong that sells on E-Bay and is pretty popular in Australia for gey market cameras. The camera arrived packed in a nice new box A few weeks later when I was cleaning my camera I noticed the label on the back had a serial number written with a biro and when I rubbed this the number came off. I then checked the Efix Data and sure enough the serial number there was totally different to what was written on the camera base and the box the camera came in.


I was just about to buy a new D600 and can't talk my local shops to discount at all from $2400+ , so was going to buy from my online "pretty popular" usual supplier.

Which program did you use to get the D600 exif data serial number.

When you say the serial number on the back, I take it you mean it was written in the blank serial number box on the base plate as per your pic.

Could this uncovered rort also apply to lenses? etc. I remember some years ago a well known computer manufacturer was caught (and fined as I recall) selling refurbished computers as new...

I have a Canon 100mm L macro and on the outside of the box it arrived in, is a printed Canon barcode (looks genuine) showing the serial number. The number matches the serial number on the lens.

My Canon 70-200 L box, (similar designed box) in the same area where the 100mm has a printed Canon barcode has the serial number written in biro. It is the same number etched on the lens.

Initially, the supplier sent me the wrong lens by mistake (sent me the non IS version). I returned it and was sent the correct lens. I had the original 100mm L box and the 70-200 IS replacement boxes side by side when I saw the serial number was written in biro instead of having a printed Canon barcode sticker.

The first thing I thought of was I had been sent a refurbished lens and rang the supplier. He said that it was genuine and new.

Today, I read these posts about dodgy serial numbers and wonder again if I was sent a brand new lens and I was the first person to use it.

I usually don't buy store stock sitting on shelves in shops either, because I know that store staff take them out for a test drive and put them back on the shelves.

[agb]

I was just about to buy a new D600 and can't talk my local shops to discount at all from $2400+ , so was going to buy from my online "pretty popular" usual supplier.

Which program did you use to get the D600 exif data serial number.

When you say the serial number on the back, I take it you mean it was written in the blank serial number box on the base plate as per your pic.

Could this uncovered rort also apply to lenses? etc. I remember some years ago a well known computer manufacturer was caught (and fined as I recall) selling refurbished computers as new...

I have a Canon 100mm L macro and on the outside of the box it arrived in, is a printed Canon barcode (looks genuine) showing the serial number. The number matches the serial number on the lens.

My Canon 70-200 L box, (similar designed box) in the same area where the 100mm has a printed Canon barcode has the serial number written in biro. It is the same number etched on the lens.

Initially, the supplier sent me the wrong lens by mistake (sent me the non IS version). I returned it and was sent the correct lens. I had the original 100mm L box and the 70-200 IS replacement boxes side by side when I saw the serial number was written in biro instead of having a printed Canon barcode sticker.

The first thing I thought of was I had been sent a refurbished lens and rang the supplier. He said that it was genuine and new.

Today, I read these posts about dodgy serial numbers and wonder again if I was sent a brand new lens and I was the first person to use it.

I usually don't buy store stock sitting on shelves in shops either, because I know that store staff take them out for a test drive and put them back on the shelves.
You get the serial number form the metadata that shows in programs such as Canon digital phot professional, of the Bridge part of photoshop.
I have no idea how you could tell if a lens is new or not. The serial number is of course etched onto the lens somewhere and not able to be changed, unlike the camera number which is printed onto a label whichis then fixed to the camera and therefore liable to be altered.

[Cattleprod]

Here's the latest messages in the saga about my 5D iii...

From them...

28 November 2012 12:31:46 by Customer Support

hi, we are checking with our supplier about your complaint, it's much stronger case when it's canon report rather than a verbal indication..., Responsed by PM Cam-Mike


From me...

3 December 2012 9:44:4 by Dave

It's been nearly 2 weeks since I first raised this issue, if you don't come up with a resolution soon, I will be forced to take further action.


From them...

3 December 2012 12:53:48 by Customer Support

hi dave, we got reply from supplier last friday.

They needed to check with their supplier in Japan hence the time taken.

They replied. "


The Japan supplier told me that since some Canon�s product are not allow export to other country, therefore they may change the serial number label, but this not mean the camera is refurbish or second hand, no one will know this issue, only between Canon and the first supplier."

This is normal practice, as we have seem Sony making similar requests to avoid cross region sales, trading.

There are always difference in pricing by diff canon offices to match local competitive conditions.

Some clever sales staff will look for creative ways to meet sales targets, and part of their special pricing is to sell the items outside their designated region.
, Responsed by PM Cam-Mike


And from me....

3 December 2012 13:32:21 by Dave

Not an acceptable answer. I have bought this item in good faith. The serial numbers do not match. I don't care about the deceptive business practices of your suppliers. I require my purchased camera to have matching numbers, AS IT SHOULD BE FROM THE FACTORY! I require this both for security, in case the camera is stolen and the serial number sticker removed, and for chain-of-evidence and copyright reasons. It's up to you, the seller of the item, to provide me with goods that are fit for the purpose, and clearly the item you sold me is not. The question remaining now is, what are you going to do to rectify the problem?


Stay tuned :2boxin:

[bricat]

Do we have an update Rick? Or any more information? The Trade Practices Act and Consumer Affairs should be notified so as to bring this complaint out into the open. I have not heard any news reports about this. Canon may wish to limit sales from overseas re pricing but we do have laws? Is it limited to any one supplier? I doubt it as grey market camera gear is readily available from any number of shops. I feel for those caught up in this as it leaves a bitter taste behind however it maybe that you do have a new product anyway. JMHO cheers Brian
PS It has stopped me from purchasing anything grey for the time being until this type of thing is sorted......

[ricktas]

Do we have an update Rick? Or any more information? The Trade Practices Act and Consumer Affairs should be notified so as to bring this complaint out into the open. I have not heard any news reports about this. Canon may wish to limit sales from overseas re pricing but we do have laws? Is it limited to any one supplier? I doubt it as grey market camera gear is readily available from any number of shops. I feel for those caught up in this as it leaves a bitter taste behind however it maybe that you do have a new product anyway. JMHO cheers Brian
PS It has stopped me from purchasing anything grey for the time being until this type of thing is sorted......

This is outside Fair Trading in most instances as the products are being shipped in from Overseas, and the financial transaction is often not even done in Australia. The issue is not related to one particular grey marketer. The changing of the serial numbers appears to have been done by Canon Hong Kong, not the grey marketers. Canon Hong Kong apparently have a contract with Canon that has several clauses about who they can sell to. This simply appears to be a way of trying to get round those contractual agreement clauses. Canon would have a record of what serial numbers it sold to Canon Hong Kong, thus if any of the gear ends up in grey marketers hands, Canon had proof that Canon Hong Kong were breaching their contract. So Canon Hong Kong decided to 'amend' the serial numbers to stop Canon tracking the items. But they obviously were not very smart about it, cause they forgot that the serial number is embedded in the firmware as well.

I would like to see Canon come out and make a statement re this matter, and what action they intend to take against Canon Hong Kong. But nothing is forthcoming at present.

Remember the grey marketers sold these cameras in good faith, they did not know that Canon Hong Kong were manipulating the serial numbers until it came to light recently. So the grey marketers are stuck in the middle here, I reckon they are all trying to get recourse from Canon Hong Kong over this.

The thing to note is that the camera is not fake, just the serial number on the body. The camera should work perfectly well. The issue arises when one of these cameras needs to be repaired and Canon will refuse due to the counterfeit serial number. Replacement of the serial number plate with one that matches the FW embedded serial number seems to be the way ahead. After all the camera is not fake, just the plate. It appears the plate was altered for one purpose, to try and get round a contractual agreement, nothing more. Canon will fix the cameras as long as the serial number on the plate and the one in the FW match.

[nisstrust]

This is very worrying re grey imports, hence why it's a grey area ;)

[Cattleprod]

Okay folks,

The supplier has decided to replace my camera. They have given me a RA number, and even an office address in Sydney I can drop it off at...

It took a while, but I'm happy with that result. Suffice to say, when the new body arrives, I'll be very carefully checking the numbers on it!!!

[ricktas]

Okay folks,

The supplier has decided to replace my camera. They have given me a RA number, and even an office address in Sydney I can drop it off at...

It took a while, but I'm happy with that result. Suffice to say, when the new body arrives, I'll be very carefully checking the numbers on it!!!

Great result. I would open the new camersa and check the serial numbers before leaving their store!

[Cattleprod]

I'm just going to post it in to them, Rick. I'm way too busy at this time of year to make a special trip just to drop off the camera... But I have noted their address, just in case the new body needs to be inserted somewhere :2enew:

[scpleta]

oh my, having read all these issues about contradicting serial numbers between the camera body and the EXIF file, i hope the AP site sponsors are selling legit cameras and camera accessories.:2smile:

[ricktas]

oh my, having read all these issues about contradicting serial numbers between the camera body and the EXIF file, i hope the AP site sponsors are selling legit cameras and camera accessories.:2smile:

As pointed out repeatedly, the retailers are not the ones at fault here. Canon Hong Kong altered the serial number plates BEFORE supplying them to the market.

[creativepro]

Great information

[rpps]

I have had my case about a non genuine serial number on my D600 settled, with the help of PayPal. The total amount of just over $2000 was refunded to my account.

*I have edited your post and removed the reference to the company involved. As repeatedly stated in this thread, the retailers were not the ones changing the serial numbers, it was Canon Hong Kong, and thus the retailers had no idea until it was discovered, and therefore it is not their fault, so naming them achieves nothing : admin*

[Epoc]

So this is now effecting Nikon as well?? Thought it was a Canon only problem. :2madn:

[Kym]

I have had my case about a non genuine serial number on my D600 settled, with the help of PayPal. The total amount of just over $2000 was refunded to my account.

D600 (Nikon) or 600D (Canon) ?????

[Epoc]

I am subscribed to this thread and hence receive emails for every post. He specifically mentions Nikon in the edited section.

[ricktas]

It would seem that Nikon suppliers are not immune to this either. My guess is that it has been a rort through HK for some time

[Warbler]

Putting aside the specific cases mentioned, the whole issue of grey market economics goes back to the pricing policies of the manufacturers. I've long marvelled at how grey market retailers could sell genuine (and they are genuine) products so much cheaper than the official retail channels in Australia. I've been shown the wholesale prices that one very large retailer pays, and it is above the retail price I've paid to B&H (for one example). The gear was genuine and had to be coming from official Canon sources somehow.

The manufacturers, and the wholesalers, are just enforcing a cost upon the consumer here that would seem to NOT apply to those wholesalers in other countries. Unless all those foreign wholesalers/importers are selling below cost because they like aussies, what other explanation can there be? The need to change serial numbers to disguise the source says a little something about the manufacturers as well as the person doing the swapping. If there was a uniform wholesale price for all importers/wholesalers internationally (with the allowance for differences in freight and taxes) then we would be able to assume that differences in retail pricing would be as a result of genuine retail chain expenses rather than simple price-gouging.

The refusal to service gear, even at the owner's expense, doesn't appear to be a problem for most grey buyers such as myself. I've had several repairs done on Grey gear by Canon Australia, and one of those was even done for free when the camera was well out of warranty. Thank you Canon Australia for that. The dodgy labels obviously caused the UK importer to suspect that maybe more than the label was counterfeit. It would be pretty easy for them to track down the supplier though. I'm betting they even know by now which serial numbers (genuine) were rebadged.

This won't deter me from sourcing gear from wherever I get the best deal.

[flashc]

I have recommended my usual online supplier to others.

I had a member of my photo club ask me why the Canon 24-105L F4.0 lens ordered was supplied in a white box and not the Canon original L series box. I rang the supplier and asked them why a single lens order would be supplied in a plain white box. I was told that sometimes the lens provided could have been part of a new camera kit with lenses that have been split into separate components and sold individually. Forgot to ask if this applies to "kit ""L" series lenses too as the 24-105L is sometimes offered as a kit with 5D or 6D. It was said that even if supplied in a white box, the lens is guaranteed new and covered by the grey importer's own 12 month warranty.

The supplier I rang also said they had had not heard of the situation where camera serial numbers didn't match, so I enlightened them...

Has anyone ever bought a Canon DSLR with 24-105L lens combination kit deal and the lens has been in a plain white box or was it supplied in the Canon retail box...

[ricktas]

I have recommended my usual online supplier to others.

I had a member of my photo club ask me why the Canon 24-105L F4.0 lens ordered was supplied in a white box and not the Canon original L series box. I rang the supplier and asked them why a single lens order would be supplied in a plain white box. I was told that sometimes the lens provided could have been part of a new camera kit with lenses that have been split into separate components and sold individually. Forgot to ask if this applies to "kit ""L" series lenses too as the 24-105L is sometimes offered as a kit with 5D or 6D. It was said that even if supplied in a white box, the lens is guaranteed new and covered by the grey importer's own 12 month warranty.

The supplier I rang also said they had had not heard of the situation where camera serial numbers didn't match, so I enlightened them...

Has anyone ever bought a Canon DSLR with 24-105L lens combination kit deal and the lens has been in a plain white box or was it supplied in the Canon retail box...

Different topic as this is not about altering serial numbers, but being supplied a lens in a white box is not new and it is how they often come when part of a 'kit' offer from the manufacturer. However, stores often split these kits up and thus sell the lens separately.

[Cattleprod]

Received my replacement 5D iii body yesterday. It has matching numbers. Took a while, but the supplier looked after me. Happy boy now.

[I @ M]

Received my replacement 5D iii body yesterday. It has matching numbers. Took a while, but the supplier looked after me. Happy boy now.

Good to hear.
When the dealer has a business address in Australia as in your case it makes them much much more open to further action from the Australian "authorities" when things aren't going the consumers way.
Thanks for following up your original posts posts. :th3:

[Cattleprod]

Actually, I'll name the supplier... I've now made quite a few purchases from them, including 2 Canon bodies, and I'm quite happy with the service and pricing. The serial number issue is the only problem I've had, and it wasn't caused by them anyway.
It's topbuy.com.au

[eichkay]

After reading this thread I thought I check my Nikon D7000 as I brought it from a .com.au site on a recommendation from a friend.. My D7000 has a pen written serial on the box at the time i thought it was odd, and after looking at the EXIF data the serial number on the bottom of the camera does not match the EXIF data, I Purchased my camera back in March this year, Ive emailed the supplier as the stock was claimed to be from Nikon Australia if this is not the case Im going to have some serious issues if I require a repair in the future.

[Kym]

We now have two distinct issues...

1. Canon HK re-numbering SNs (the retailers are not at fault)

2. Something happening with Nikon grey stock SNs - causes unknown!!

Please keep these issues separate!

[ricktas]

After reading this thread I thought I check my Nikon D7000 as I brought it from a .com.au site on a recommendation from a friend.. My D7000 has a pen written serial on the box at the time i thought it was odd, and after looking at the EXIF data the serial number on the bottom of the camera does not match the EXIF data, I Purchased my camera back in March this year, Ive emailed the supplier as the stock was claimed to be from Nikon Australia if this is not the case Im going to have some serious issues if I require a repair in the future.

You need to go back to the company you purchased from and take it up with them directly.

[eichkay]

You need to go back to the company you purchased from and take it up with them directly.

Ive emailed them with my concerns this re-tagging of serial numbers is a real worry as you just dont know if the units were stollen or legit and just dodging there international selling arrangements.

[agb]

Received my replacement 5D iii body yesterday. It has matching numbers. Took a while, but the supplier looked after me. Happy boy now.
Great result in the end. Pity it did take a while though and a bit of "prompting" from you.

[agb]

Does this go in here?

http://www.prettyinwhite.com/digital-rev-hey-thats-my-camera/

[Kym]

Does this go in here?
http://www.prettyinwhite.com/digital-rev-hey-thats-my-camera/

We have been talking about that in the mods area for a few days :cool:

Does pre-used by Kai increase your camera's value? :D

In some shops, staff members 'borrow' cameras overnight/weekends for evaluation reasons.

Also: http://www.petapixel.com/2013/01/17/photog-receives-laminate-flooring-after-ordering-a-canon-5d-mkiii-from-dell/ floor tiles instead of a 5Diii :p

[agb]

We have been talking about that in the mods area for a few days :cool:

Does pre-used by Kai increase your camera's value? :D

In some shops, staff members 'borrow' cameras overnight/weekends for evaluation reasons.

Also: http://www.petapixel.com/2013/01/17/photog-receives-laminate-flooring-after-ordering-a-canon-5d-mkiii-from-dell/ floor tiles instead of a 5Diii :p
The laminate flooring one took up 70pages on the POTN web site.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1264733&page=70&highlight=Dell

[ricktas]

The laminate flooring one could actually be a rip-off of Dell.

From what I understand, Someone apparently ordered a heap of cameras from Dell. Then asked if they could return some. Dell obliged and took the excess stock back, restocking their warehouse. These excess returned stock were then subsequently shipped to new customers. It was then discovered that the original customer had taken the cameras out, put the laminate in and sent them back to Dell. Dell never opened the stock as it came back to check it, rather they just restocked their shelves with the returned items

Sadly, the result is what we have seen above.

I bet Dell implement a system to open and check every returned stock item from now on.