Copyright and ownership question

[triptych]

Hi,

I've been asked by a friend to do a swimsuit shoot for her, she will be the model in them. She only wants me to take the photo's of her, she will be doing any post processing of them, as she wants the photo's to reflect her style which is confusing to me as I'd be the photographer so really it'd be my style so im not sure why she wants them to reflect her style?

She will be putting the photo's on her blog, and she will allow me to use 3 images for me to edit and publish as I like and as the images would be owned be her, I need to ask for written consent to use them.

Now this could be perfectly normal but just wanted to check before I sign anything as im really new to all this.

Thanks

[Kym]

By default YOU own the copyright! (I assume your getting paid and that you are a contractor/supplier and not an photographic employee.)

So I would get a written contract whereby you grant her a limited license to use, edit and publish for a particular purpose but you keep the © yourself. (Normal)

I would also get some professional legal advice, esp. if you intend to keep doing this sort of work.

[kiwi]

are you getting paid ?

i wouldnt personally let anyone have my raw files to edit them - what if she does crud like selective colouring or stuffs it completely, but its attributed to you ?

[ricktas]

Depends Kym!

Domestic Portraiture in Australia is covered under a separate part of the Copyright Act, and the client owns copyright, not the photographer. So we need to know here is this a domestic agreement, or a commercial one. What is the intent of the lady's blog? if she wants swimsuit shots, is the blog advertising herself as a model, etc. If so, then it is a commercial agreement, not a domestic one.

We need to know more here about the reason behind the shoot to answer correctly.

[triptych]

Ok she is giving the maker of the swimsuit exposure, and she is getting paid to do so. She is a professional blogger. Im not getting paid, as she said she is only getting a swimsuit as payment but she would give me $20...

I was going to jump at the chance to get experience...

[ricktas]

Ok, So this is a commercial contract, not a domestic one.

Therefore YOU own copyright, unless you choose to give it away to the client.

I would get a contract that states the exact situation. Things to consider

* Give copyright to client
* Include that you are to have 3 photos from the shoot to do with as you want, and who chooses the three (you, her, or negotiated agreement).
* Include any agreed payments
* Include usage, IE, you are giving her the copyright to use on her blog and to promote xxx brand of swimwear, and that any other usage is reserved and that any further usage requires an additional contract be agreed upon before that additional usage is undertaken.
* both sign and date it, with a witness, if possible.

Note :these are my suggestions only, how you approach this is entirely up to you.

[triptych]

Thanks for the suggestions...at least I know where I stand with the copyright side of things.

What im not sure of is her PP my images to her style...thats confusing to me and I've never heard of this before.

[junqbox]

Perhaps you can offer to PP to 'her' style, if she can provide some samples of what she has in mind. As above, I wouldn't be giving RAW files away either.

In the commercial world, this is called 'briefing a photographer' (sorry not trying to condescend, but it appears your friend is trying to play silly buggers).

[triptych]

In the commercial world, this is called 'briefing a photographer' (sorry not trying to condescend, but it appears your friend is trying to play silly buggers).

Not condescending at all, I really dont know anything about the commercial side of photography...can you tell me in lamens terms lol

[Longshots]

I'm glad a few others jumped in with this. Triptych when a suggested agreement is this weird - and to me there is something weird about what is being suggested by the model, then I'd definitely decline the offer and walk away. Its definitely odd that she wants to do the post to do her style (is she a photographer herself ?).

There is plenty of good advice on this subject, and its often repeated. But if you want to do a shortish amount of reading from the organisation in Australia that its task is to provide the right information - go to this link:

http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cm...0168563bdf.pdf

[ricktas]

Maybe add a clause to the contract that states you want to see all final photos before they are published, and that any processing requires your approval, before they can use the photo. If they ask why, state that as your reputation as a photographer is at risk, if the processing is not well done.

[Big Pix]

....... never given a client RAW images, and I always retain copyright

[kiwi]

Id keep money out of it (only $20) but I think it makes it complex potentially
Id do a TFP (time for print) type deal - give her selected processed images for free in return for you keeping copyright and images for you own portfolio

[triptych]

William she is a photographer...but I wouldnt say of professional quality.

Thanks for the suggestion Rick, if I go ahead with it I'll put that in.

Im in two minds as I really want the experience lol

[ricktas]

Here is a question for you. If you do a contract, and all is good, and then your client breaches that contract (say on-sells one of the photos and it is used in an advertising campaign), are you willing to take legal action?

A contract is only good if all parties abide by it.

[triptych]

Probably not in all honesty Rick.

[Kym]

Depends Kym!
Domestic Portraiture in Australia is covered under a separate part of the Copyright Act,...

Agreed, hence my assumptions.

[Longshots]

Depends Kym!

Domestic Portraiture in Australia is covered under a separate part of the Copyright Act, and the client owns copyright, not the photographer. So we need to know here is this a domestic agreement, or a commercial one. What is the intent of the lady's blog? if she wants swimsuit shots, is the blog advertising herself as a model, etc. If so, then it is a commercial agreement, not a domestic one.

We need to know more here about the reason behind the shoot to answer correctly.

Well yes it is - but this is a classic grey area:

I'll quote the relevant part of that PDK link:

if the photographs were taken for “private or domestic purposes” (such as family portraits,
or wedding photographs), the first owner of copyright in them is the client, unless the
photographer and client agree otherwise; however
• if they were taken for any other purpose (e.g. commercial shots), the photographer will be
the first owner of copyright, unless the photographer and client agree otherwise.

PLEASE note that this refers to Commissioned work.

And yes not much point in having clauses unless someone is prepared to abide or apply the terms.

She - model/post processer is being paid - by getting the swim suit - so there is a payment happening and while I'm not a lawyer, that means to me a commercial transaction - as would be the $20 (the fee or amount of is irrelevant) - so its a commercial shoot, and would never be described as a domestic commission.

So sure agree to do it, but you should insist its your copyright - because with the shoe on the other foot, you may have a great shot, but you then may not be able to show anyone (and whats the point in that ?).

[Scotty72]

There was mention of the model doing her own PP so, I wonder if, that would entitle her (if you sell / hand over the RAW) to claim a portion of the finished product...

[triptych]

Hi everyone,

I have decided to decline the offer, she said if I wasn't happy with her terms she would find someone else so she wasn't willing to negotiate her terms. I feed good about my decision as I really wasnt comfortable with the whole thing.

THanks for all your help