How to deal with overly optimistic novice photographers who think they are better than they are?

[Kerro]

I am only an amateur too. I have done three weddings, no charge , to friends and family who insisted, two of which had pro
photogs there. I wouldn't dream of charging for my photos.

I say let him learn the hard way when his customers come back unhappy. You get what you pay for...

[RJD]

I can't imagine too many people choosing a photographer without seeing a portfolio first. Unless the portfolio contains images taken by others, I don't see there is a lot you could do. Quite frankly, there are a lot of people out there doing jobs they really shouldn't be in. Carefully worded comments pointing out the possible pitfalls and things that need to be considered are probably about as far as you can go. As Rick has pointed out, sometimes the cheap amatuer is the only tog some people can afford.

[jev]

I'ld advice to just let it go. If there's a couple out there that wants wedding pictures from a 'tog that doesn't have a decent wedding-portfolio, chances are they won't shell out for good photography anyway. You are not responsible for his photography, his business nor his clientele. And who knows, maybe he'll either come to his senses soon enough or he might do a stellar job by accident .

[Kym]

Some links..

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/1920...l-ever-see/?-0

http://youarenotaphotographer.com/

[Cage]

Just watched a segment on a Current Affair of a self proclaimed 'Wedding Photographer'.

Scary stuff, charged big money, and often didn't turn up.

I've done one wedding for acquaintances, charged about 1/3 of the rate a pro would have charged. At the end of the day I looked at it as a learning experience and for the time taken, both with the shoot and PP, the kids at Maccas would be on a much higher hourly rate.

I certainly haven't chased any more weddings but I must have done something right as they have recommended me to someone else.

I haven't accepted the job yet, but if I do, I will definitely be better prepared.

I learnt heaps from my first shoot, not the least of which was not to forget my flash diffuser. I think the other main thing I took away from the job was to be more selective of backgrounds.

[Glenda]

It seems a very common occurrence nowadays - buy a camera with kit lens and next you're a professional. I'd like half their confidence in their abilities, especially when it comes to photography. Unfortunately on facebook all they get is positive feedback and they begin to believe it. And, so many people assume, you have a good camera, you must be a good photographer. Quite a few locally do baby/wedding/engagement/pregnancy shoots - I've seen some where the eyes aren't even in focus. On the other hand my son recently married, they hired a professional AIPP accredited photographer and frankly her work was lousy, badly posed, high key is one thing but when it means the bride's dress changes colour and important highlights completely blown and so many crooked horizons. How are people supposed to know?

I'd either just leave it alone or explain the pitfalls.

[bcys1961]

It seems a very common occurrence nowadays - buy a camera with kit lens and next you're a professional.

Yes ,it is funny how this only seems to happen with cameras. If you follow the same logic and bought a piano you should be doing gigs at the pub in the following week and a concert at the opera house after about a month!.

[jev]

Yes ,it is funny how this only seems to happen with cameras.

You mean, like, there are no people that buy semi-professional kitchen equipment and than think they will be able to cook?

It happens all the time, with people making software, with shady car repairmen "fixing" cars, with handymen building something or installing electrics or plumbing. Usually though, the results are less visible - or at least not that quickly.

[bcys1961]

You mean, like, there are no people that buy semi-professional kitchen equipment and than think they will be able to cook?

It happens all the time, with people making software, with shady car repairmen "fixing" cars, with handymen building something or installing electrics or plumbing. Usually though, the results are less visible - or at least not that quickly.

Agreed!

[arthurking83]

I'ld advice to just let it go. If there's a couple out there that wants wedding pictures from a 'tog that doesn't have a decent wedding-portfolio, chances are they won't shell out for good photography anyway. .......

+1

[Shane H]

Let the market decide. There will be people out there who just want photos. They will pay for what they get. They will know what sort of photos he takes and that will be what they want.

Sometimes you have to set the moral compass aside and let things work themselves out.

Credit to you for taking the time to explore the options and seek guidance what actions you might take. That's a rare thing in itself.

Cheers
Shane

[WhoDo]

No, don't leave it alone. Risk losing a few failbook "friends" to prevent tears from someone further down the track. Be blunt, just tell him he isn't up to it yet.

Funnily enough (well, not funny really unless you mean funny=weird rather than funny=humourous) I went this route only recently on FB. A photographer straight out of a local training course, not yet turning a dollar on portraits himself, advertised his services to teach others "Basic Portraiture" for $250.00 per person. I pointed out the obvious; that it's a major leap from even knowing a subject yourself to actually teaching it to others and requires a specific skill set. Oh dear. The reaction was essentially "How dare you..." and "... he's only trying to make a few dollars" etc. What about the poor saps who pay the price and don't get what was advertised?

Long story short (at least short sighted in my view), I left the group to their own devices. I hope I made a few lemmings think first before beaching themselves but given the level of human proclivities toward herd behaviour, I doubt it. Such a sad commentary really. I guess it comes with the corollary to Gen-Y that certainly applies to my own offspring. It should be relabelled Gen-Ynot?

[bricat]

Good on him for having a go. He will fall flat on his face if he is not prepared. I have always had belief in my own ability. Mind you I might have lacked some of the skill required at times. If you feel inclined to make a comment be positive about it. That is at the same time pointing out he will have to spend x amount of dollars to get the minimum equipment required for the shoot. Suggest he do a dummy shoot at a party or similar. That should sort him out. QED. cheers Brian

[WhoDo]

Good on him for having a go. He will fall flat on his face if he is not prepared.

Problem is though Brian that when he does "fall flat on his face", someone else will pay the price. That's not really fair is it? I'm all for people having a go, but only if they've done enough to suggest they have a reasonable chance of success. Everyone has to start somewhere, but the top is NOT a good place to start IMHO. In this case the "TOP" is anywhere where failure has consequences beyond the adventurous tog's own failure. JMHO of course.

[bcys1961]

Problem is though Brian that when he does "fall flat on his face", someone else will pay the price. That's not really fair is it? I'm all for people having a go, but only if they've done enough to suggest they have a reasonable chance of success. Everyone has to start somewhere, but the top is NOT a good place to start IMHO. In this case the "TOP" is anywhere where failure has consequences beyond the adventurous tog's own failure. JMHO of course.

In that case I would say both parties would learn a lesson - the photographer not to take on more than he can handle and the people who booked him - to look more carefully at who they hire . Lose-lose or if you regard experience as a valuable teacher - Win- Win!

How you define "starting at the top" depends very much on who he is taking photo's for, what they expect and how much he is charging . If they are taking photo's of a friends wedding, or not charging very much and the recipient know he is new to the game then he is starting at the bottom. If he is charging a lot and does not deliver , then both will learn a lesson. Ultimately experience is the most valuable teacher .

[Mark L]

If there is a wedding in Mudgee let me know . You can be my assistant. (How many beers do you charge?)

There's heaps of weddings in Mudgee. I charge bottles of wine by the dozens. No one seems to want to hire me!
If you happen to get a gig in Mudgee, I'll happily assist at a discounted rate. I'll only charge by the box (no beer involved).

[bcys1961]

There's heaps of weddings in Mudgee. I charge bottles of wine by the dozens. No one seems to want to hire me!
If you happen to get a gig in Mudgee, I'll happily assist at a discounted rate. I'll only charge by the box (no beer involved).

Sound's like it could be a scene from that new movie - "Drunk and Drunker!" .

[jev]

In that case I would say both parties would learn a lesson - the photographer not to take on more than he can handle and the people who booked him - to look more carefully at who they hire . Lose-lose or if you regard experience as a valuable teacher - Win- Win!

No, that's not a win-win. The customer might learn something but what is that knowledge worth if he has no chance to use it ever again? Also, the results for the photographer are temporary - he can simply ignore them in the long term, but the customer will have to live with them forever.

Having said that the primary responsibility for the outcome lies with both, photographer and customer. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. And if the customer doesn't investigate when hiring it's at least partly his own fault.

[WhoDo]

In that case I would say both parties would learn a lesson - the photographer not to take on more than he can handle and the people who booked him - to look more carefully at who they hire . Lose-lose or if you regard experience as a valuable teacher - Win- Win!

Hmmm... very expensive one-off lesson for the errant customer - a once only life event ruined. The fauxtographer on the other hand may learn nothing and continue on his or her delusional way unmoved. For one the price is far too high and for the other it's peanuts.

[bcys1961]

No, that's not a win-win. The customer might learn something but what is that knowledge worth if he has no chance to use it ever again? Also, the results for the photographer are temporary - he can simply ignore them in the long term, but the customer will have to live with them forever.

Having said that the primary responsibility for the outcome lies with both, photographer and customer. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. And if the customer doesn't investigate when hiring it's at least partly his own fault.

The lesson that you get what you pay for is an invaluable one the customer will get to use many times over , maybe not specifically relating to photography, but to many other aspects of life. I assume the customer will take the photographer to task , express their displeasure if the job is not well done , request a refund, a reshoot etc..... . The certainly would not get any word of mouth recommendations and so if they do not do a good job their business will eventually fizzle out.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmmm... very expensive one-off lesson for the errant customer - a once only life event ruined. The fauxtographer on the other hand may learn nothing and continue on his or her delusional way unmoved. For one the price is far too high and for the other it's peanuts.

See response to Jev above.