70d or 6d

[Eden]

I will upgrade soon but am still in a quandry in regard to getting the 6d or the 70d.

the fuji is proving a great argument for crop sensors so I am starting to wonder if my supposedly natural progression should be towards full frame for the sake of full frame or would it be stupid to keep the 1.6 crop system

I am happy with the average lenses the ef-s range give and would love the 1.6 magnification that I get with a crop sensor to carry on as it is extra zoom and more magnification when doing macro (I love macro and the pivoting screen is a big plus on the 70d)

the 70d kicks the 7d so this is not an issue

my real problem is it worth looking at full frame when a schmuck like me honestly cannot see the diff between full frame and crop 90% of the time, maybe even 95% of the time

by going 70d instead of 6 d I could get an 8 - 15 sigma to beat the wide cravings I get ( typical, wish I loved the 50mm range) in the price and retain the 1.6 for macro.

oh well I have confused myself more now.

I suppose it plays in your head the more you are on a budget.

so I look at it as will the 70d help me ,,,,,,,YES
will the 6d help me much more ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,UM Not Sure! Dont Know!

[I @ M]

Your post is totally unable to be read on the site default background because you have chosen a font colour that blends with the back ground.

[ricktas]

* To the OP. do not cut n paste from other sites as formatting comes across as well sometimes, and results in unreadable text: admin*

We have fixed the readability of your post now

[ricktas]

PS. if you are now thinking of upgrading from your 550D, that to us, means you have also improved your photography to the point you need to upgrade. So congratulations, we have upgraded you too..to intermediate level.

[ameerat42]

Eden. That decision will be yours alone - after some analysis of wants/needs/desires/other perceptions.
A couple of Qs:
1. What do you find limiting to your progress with the present Canon 550 (and its arsenal of nick-nacks)?.
2. What do you mean by "...the 70D kicks the 7D so this is not an issue...", and what relevance does it have to the decision?
3. How do you arrive at the statement of "...extra zoom and more magnification..." from a croop sensor camera?

As a bit of advice, that statement I cited in Q3 is inaccurate.

So a bit of a list of pros and cons for each system - after you've figured out your present system limitations - and you should
be on your way to a decision.

Am.

[ricktas]

Agree with Am. You do not get 'extra zoom and more magnification' with a crop sensor. What you get is a smaller field of view.

[phild]

If you're at all likely to do nightscapes or portrait work in low light, then the 6D is the better choice, the only real downside to the full frame 6D is that it's focus systems and continuous shooting rates aren't really suited to sports photography. The 6d also has no inbuilt flash so a decent flash is almost a necessity.

FWIW I have both the 6 D and 7D; the 7D is rarely used.

[Grant S]

As already posted, you need to work out what sort of shooting you are going to be doing. This video gives a reasonable run down of the key differences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF8cyP55psQ It covers the differences in FOV between the full frame and cropped sensors pretty well. A lot of people confuse the reduced FOV for increased zoom, which is simply not the case.

This one goes into a bit more detail on the differences between full frame and cropped sensors on these two cameras. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnj1rRa3wnM

Basically it will come down to the type of shooting you will be doing.

[arthurking83]

...... I get with a crop sensor to carry on as it is extra zoom and more magnification when doing macro ......

Just to be sure you have the technical aspects correct ... for the same FOV, you actually get less magnification from the cropped sensor!

For the same lens(focal length) .. you get the same magnification!

While it's common practice to use crop factor crops as a pseudo focal length multiplier/divider for the purpose of easy understanding for beginners, magnification has a strict technical meaning and shouldn't be confused or distorted in this manner.

[Eden]

Eden. That decision will be yours alone - after some analysis of wants/needs/desires/other perceptions.
A couple of Qs:
1. What do you find limiting to your progress with the present Canon 550 (and its arsenal of nick-nacks)?.
2. What do you mean by "...the 70D kicks the 7D so this is not an issue...", and what relevance does it have to the decision?
3. How do you arrive at the statement of "...extra zoom and more magnification..." from a croop sensor camera?

As a bit of advice, that statement I cited in Q3 is inaccurate.

So a bit of a list of pros and cons for each system - after you've figured out your present system limitations - and you should
be on your way to a decision.

Am.

Cheers for the response Am

the 550 is the camera I love and my favourite time with the camera is macro.

the 550d is great but has a few failings for me even though I am still a beginner in my eyes and will be for a long time to come

1 - it usually has a buffer (bottom right in the viewfinder) of 2 shots and with flying or fast insects I am lacking the expertise to get a good shot unless I can squeeze 3 or 4 out quick sometimes.
1 - my Eyesight is getting worse (close vision is getting dismal) so the tilt screen will be so much easier for me to use when the camera is at ground level and using live view (im seeing less when the screen is not face on and glasses exaggerate the distortion of angled viewing)
1 - I am forever knocking the dial to another setting without realising
1 - my clumsy old work hardened fingers and palm seem to hit the AF and WB buttons often without me knowing

2 - I compared the 7d to the 70d and there was more that interested me for macro/reasonably well lit fast moving objects and in all honesty the button layout on the left screamed "press me accidentally often" also the duel pixel sensor of the 70d sounded pretty good

3 - well everyone jumped on this statement even though you know what I meant "I am a beginner at best, " but to me at this point in time until I can justify a full frame purchase ( I am poor! ) and the ditching of a few EFS lenses including my beloved 15-85 EFS IS USM is just not possible without holding up a bank
I realise the difference eg .... the crop sensor is gathering a smaller portion of an immage but I still get all my pixels (inferior as they may be!) on that smaller image and can crop a little deeper before pixelation becomes evident as the full frame would need to have a 32.32 mp sensor in it to stave off the little squares if say an ant was at the 24mm (filling the height of the frame) size.

I feel I am not good enough and experienced enough (not counting rich enough) to go full frame and with it the lenses I would feel I wanted not needed

I might be wrong in my thinking here and if you tell me nicely I will soak up every bit you write

I bought a 70d for $730 smackers on feebay last night and have it in my hand as I type, it has 4963 shots on the counter and is pristine in condition, the build feels great and my heartbeat is audible

My obvious downfall was not including the types of shooting I like etc, My bad!!!

no wonder you all jumped on the vague question, "dumb user" response and I would have also.

feel free to have a look at my flickr acc and see my recent (DSLR) shots that are since I got the 550d

I dont know that I deserve Intermediate level ric but feel free to look at my pics and choose based on your thoughts.

Thanks to all that replied, It is much appreciated,

merry Xmas and a great new year to you all!

Cheers Eden

https://www.flickr.com/photos/92682533@N02/

- - - Updated - - -

PS, every shot I have taken is legal and with the full consent of those in it , they are mine but just ask me and you can use them with my consent , Eden

[ricktas]

PS, every shot I have taken is legal and with the full consent of those in it , they are mine but just ask me and you can use them with my consent , Eden

You do not need their consent, unless you are profiting from the image and even then it relates to commercial promotion. So you could sell a photo of some guy walking down the street, without his permission. But you could not sell that photo to Coca Cola for use in advertising, where it creates an association that the guy in the photo recommends people drink Coke.

[ameerat42]

A comprehensive reply, Eden. If you ask me you - and I too - will/would be well served with that 70D. Congs on the purchase.

[Shane H]

It doesn't matter which camera body you buy, someone will always tell you that you made a poor choice.

Personally, I don't care which body you use, I want to see your photos. Your photos tell me a lot about you.

[arthurking83]

..... on that smaller image and can crop a little deeper before pixelation becomes evident as the full frame would need to have a 32.32 mp sensor in it to stave off the little squares if say an ant was at the 24mm (filling the height of the frame) size.

.....

As long as you realise what the difference is then all is good.

Cropping is not equal to greater magnification!

for example of how this can be important.

Say you captured an image of this ant. Lets also say that you displayed this image somewhere, and someone stumbles across it and finds that it's not one that is known of.
ie. you have captured an image of a new discovery.
But the person that discovered this new find contacts you asking if you could send them an image, and wanted some camera info too.
You tell them it's a crop sensor Canon and 24mm lens .. etc, etc .. but somehow in the excitement of a new discovery the fact that the image is a cropped one of the full frame has been overlooked.

If the ant actually covered only 1/10th of the original image, and you cropped it to show it as filling half the frame height instead, then magnification(in a scientific sense) goes haywire.

in a simplistic sense:
in your original image, if the sensor height is 16mm and the ant is 1/1oth of that on the original, then the ant's actual size is 1.6mm
But if you send the scientist a cropped version of this image only, without any notification of this, and the ant in this image is shown as 1/2 the sensor height, then the scientist will assume that the ant's physical size is 8mm.
They may subsequently head out on a field trip looking for the wrong sized species!

All of this is super simplistic to say the least, but it's simply for the purpose of trying to physically imagine what 'magnification' actually means!


If you want this type of 'magnification' then you don't want to change sensor size for your next camera .. your priority would be more pixels from the next camera.

[ameerat42]

Mind you, though, that scientist would soon get the sack for not researching the size more.

[arthurking83]

No doubt their dismissal would be with valid reasoning too! I wouldn't employ such an idiot

[Eden]

As long as you realise what the difference is then all is good.

Cropping is not equal to greater magnification!

for example of how this can be important.

Say you captured an image of this ant. Lets also say that you displayed this image somewhere, and someone stumbles across it and finds that it's not one that is known of.
ie. you have captured an image of a new discovery.
But the person that discovered this new find contacts you asking if you could send them an image, and wanted some camera info too.
You tell them it's a crop sensor Canon and 24mm lens .. etc, etc .. but somehow in the excitement of a new discovery the fact that the image is a cropped one of the full frame has been overlooked.

If the ant actually covered only 1/10th of the original image, and you cropped it to show it as filling half the frame height instead, then magnification(in a scientific sense) goes haywire.

in a simplistic sense:
in your original image, if the sensor height is 16mm and the ant is 1/1oth of that on the original, then the ant's actual size is 1.6mm
But if you send the scientist a cropped version of this image only, without any notification of this, and the ant in this image is shown as 1/2 the sensor height, then the scientist will assume that the ant's physical size is 8mm.
They may subsequently head out on a field trip looking for the wrong sized species!

All of this is super simplistic to say the least, but it's simply for the purpose of trying to physically imagine what 'magnification' actually means!


If you want this type of 'magnification' then you don't want to change sensor size for your next camera .. your priority would be more pixels from the next camera.

I could just give this hypothetical scientist the origional image and take him to the location the ant was


or

sell them the picture and buy a "6d mk2" full frame and an MPE-65mm as I will then be hypothetically much better off and able to get what I want and not just what I can afford.



- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter which camera body you buy, someone will always tell you that you made a poor choice.

Personally, I don't care which body you use, I want to see your photos. Your photos tell me a lot about you.

here is my link to my flikr page as I'm not going to post old captures but will post some newies as the new baby gets a workout

cheers Eden

[ameerat42]

Woops! No link, Eden.

[arthurking83]

......

sell them the picture and buy a "6d mk2" full frame and an MPE-65mm as I will then be hypothetically much better off and able to get what I want and not just what I can afford.



......

As long as you understand the difference between magnification and cropping .. all is good.

[Eden]

Oops

https://www.flickr.com/photos/92682533@N02/