T&C's that SH!T me to tears!

[Roosta]

Ok,

I've purchased tickets to the up and coming gig by 'The Church' here in Perth.

I read all the policy statements on the venue "Open air auditorium" in or around 'Red Hill' anyway, nothing about photography equipment. I have the idea that I'll send the standard email regarding photography equipment just in case, as I've been to the sister 'Auditorium' and it stated P&S only, no Pro gear allowed, no worries, got it.

Please advise on your policy to photography equipment as nothing listed on your website regarding this?

Email comes back with the usual blurb regarding no pro cameras and the like, I reply, so a camera with a detachable lens is ok? No only P&S allowed. But you don't have a listed policy, and I know the band is against the ritual laws and crap that we have to put up with at times, not so much rebels, but they have a cause.

So why do these places that have no policy, stop us as the paying punter, on bringing a DSLR to a gig? with out a policy? I understand if it's listed in B&W on a site/ticket before hand, but no policy???

What gives them the right to have a largish human at the door, tell me I can't enter due to my camera? do they feel intimidated by the tele lenght? I have purchased my ticket and have applied to the venues regs as they have stated, not my fault they have no policy, but get told via email, turn up with a DSLR and you won't get in.

I do however understand they may have a pro's or company/s shooting the event for promo, but that shouldn't stop the average punter, should it?

Love to hear your thoughts on this.

Are we being denined our right as individuals and as photographers???

[kiwi]

Why would you want to take a dslr ?

Is it fair, sure, more exclusive the photos the more they are worth if i am shooting them, sounds fair to me :-)

[Roosta]

Are you replying as their hired Pro (If they have one) or as a paying punter?

I have taken my DSLR to many concerts before, but always read the small print before hand, and sound if I'm allowed. Darren, I'm not trying to take away from paid pro's, but I know you know the difference in IQ and results in general between P&S and DSLR.

Is it fair, sure it is, I'm not getting paid to shoot the show, I wan't some for personal keeps. If I was getting paid for it, I'd be wearing a 'Getty' badge and getting plenty for it.

[kiwi]

I think just enjoy the concert personally, who wants 59 guys and girls with dslrs in the crowd all jostling for snaps ?

Is it right, dunno, it is for a few reasons including safety

[fess67]

Are you replying as their hired Pro (If they have one) or as a paying punter?

I have taken my DSLR to many concerts before, but always read the small print before hand, and sound if I'm allowed. Darren, I'm not trying to take away from paid pro's, but I know you know the difference in IQ and results in general between P&S and DSLR.

Is it fair, sure it is, I'm not getting paid to shoot the show, I wan't some for personal keeps. If I was getting paid for it, I'd be wearing a 'Getty' badge and getting plenty for it.

(my understanding).....You may not be getting paid BUT if you get a cracker of a shot AND the people in the know want that shot OR you decide to put it on the market, it can be sold and be in the media domain without the express permission of the artist or the venue. More than that, the venue, artist are not getting their cut of the revenue. Now we all know the world is run by accountants....they know f&%* all about cameras but lots about money. So, you cannot take that nice big camera in because the accountants have worked out it could cost them money.

Your mission (should you be stupid enough to try) is to convince the idiot accountants that many P&S cameras are more than capable of taking high quality images equal to the big 'pro' looking rigs. Good luck with that!!

As Kiwi said, enjoy the concert and chill. Otherwise, get a press pass (if you can) and go play but be prepared to pay a royalty on images, even those posted for fun on sites like this.

[I @ M]

Are we being denined our right as individuals and as photographers???

Put simply, you don't have any "rights", I don't know the specifics of the "venue" but I would assume that they, the event promoters, have entered into some kind of agreement with the owners of said place/s to use it and probably that includes them being allowed to accept / deny entry to anyone they feel like doing so to for whatever reason within the bounds of the law.

Yep, I feel your pain at not being able to carry out your hobby at such an event ---- but ---- I would also feel more pain if I had paid for a ticket to listen to the music and be part of the event and my "rights" were impinged upon by a camera wielding addict ( or multiples thereof ) who has the potential to spoil my night out.

[ricktas]

Private venues (stadiums, paddocks, houses) of any type can determine what happens on their property. Whilst I understand your gripe about them not having the T&C on the tickets, etc.

When you have a party at your place, and invite a few friends over, BBQ perhaps, do you give them a printed sheet, or have a large sign at the door stating your terms and conditions of entry? What happens if you get gate-crashed? The gate crashers using your T&C requirement could argue that there were not any T&C restricting us from entering. Now maybe this is a bit extreme, but the point is, that private property can have T&C applied to it, but it doesn't have to do so in writing.

Yeah, it can be frustrating, but in the end, we choose to either go along and enjoy ourselves, without our DSLR's or we get annoyed and agitated, and I bet the organisers could not care one iota, what some bloke from Northern Perth thinks, as long as the punters have paid their ticket prices.

[LJG]

Most of us use a photo hosting site these days and put a tag on anything we upload. Savvy entrepreneurs know this and may search the popular sites using tag searches to see if they can grab a great shot – for free. This then becomes just another way that the value of having a pro togger covering events is undermined.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for freedom, but not at the expense of somebody else’s living. Besides, as already said above, if I go to a concert the last thing I want to be bothered with is lugging my gear around, worrying about its' security just to maybe (and I stress maybe) get “that shot” instead of just enjoying it with my wife. It is part of life as we know it Roosta so don't stress, just go and enjoy a great concert mate.

[junqbox]

One of the reasons why pro-togs are generally herded out after the 2nd or 3rd song is so the band can get on with the show without flash bulbs popping off every 10sec or so. I understand your gripe, but I'm getting sick to death of paying to see a show and being distracted by people trying to film it with their mobile phones (I don't think they realise how crap it's going to look) or relentless flashes going off.

[Bennymiata]

Why don't you take a good superzoom P&S with you instead?

[kiwi]

One of the reasons why pro-togs are generally herded out after the 2nd or 3rd song is so the band can get on with the show without flash bulbs popping off every 10sec or so. I understand your gripe, but I'm getting sick to death of paying to see a show and being distracted by people trying to film it with their mobile phones (I don't think they realise how crap it's going to look) or relentless flashes going off.

just on this, ive never seen a pro use flash at a concert, but yes, its like a supernova when the crowd do.

[junqbox]

just on this, ive never seen a pro use flash at a concert, but yes, its like a supernova when the crowd do.

This is true, but they do get to go in the section between the punters and the stage, so they don't have to worry about the rest of the punters jostling them around.

[Roosta]

Now we all know the world is run by accountants....they know f&%* all about cameras but lots about money. So, you cannot take that nice big camera in because the accountants have worked out it could cost them money.

Your mission (should you be stupid enough to try) is to convince the idiot accountants that many P&S cameras are more than capable of taking high quality images equal to the big 'pro' looking rigs. Good luck with that!!

Otherwise, get a press pass (if you can) and go play but be prepared to pay a royalty on images, even those posted for fun on sites like this.

Put simply, you don't have any "rights", I don't know the specifics of the "venue" but I would assume that they, the event promoters, have entered into some kind of agreement with the owners of said place/s to use it and probably that includes them being allowed to accept / deny entry to anyone they feel like doing so to for whatever reason within the bounds of the law.

I see the argument about cameras and lenses affecting punters views, but this venue is a outdoor sit-down, first in best seat to you in the house situation, no reversed seating, all out in the open. I would be sitting where ever, not along the punter barrier at the front behind any such paid photographers. So the situation is a little more subdued than the normal rock gig. I did reply to their email and mentioned that they might want to have something in their policy pages for complete clarification. Legally, I would have though they needed a statement to show their clear stance.

Press pass I wish. Then yes, I can see the other side of the argument, I would want as much money as I could get out of the images I shoot, but I don't have one.

Cheers for your input.

[Roosta]

Private venues (stadiums, paddocks, houses) of any type can determine what happens on their property. Whilst I understand your gripe about them not having the T&C on the tickets, etc.

Trespass is one thing rick as to Houses as you've mentioned (The dreaded landscape photographers stopper at times) . Most venues have a understandable policy re lens size (Tele Lenght) as if you go to say NRL - AFL - Rugby - Soccer and the like. Venues here in Perth that host larger events have statements as well, clear and cut.

Now maybe this is a bit extreme, but the point is, that private property can have T&C applied to it, but it doesn't have to do so in writing.

What's the point of having T&C's and NOT making them easily available? My mates can bring whatever gear they want, as for gate crashing, and unfortunately here in Perth, it happens all too often, that's a police matter over trespassing. I'm a paid punter to an event, very different position.

Yeah, it can be frustrating, but in the end, we choose to either go along and enjoy ourselves, without our DSLR's or we get annoyed and agitated, and I bet the organisers could not care one iota, what some bloke from Northern Perth thinks, as long as the punters have paid their ticket prices.

True enough. But maybe I could or should be able to enjoy the gig and take my DSLR, that's one of my points.

Thanks Rick.

[Roosta]

One of the reasons why pro-togs are generally herded out after the 2nd or 3rd song is so the band can get on with the show without flash bulbs popping off every 10sec or so. I understand your gripe, but I'm getting sick to death of paying to see a show and being distracted by people trying to film it with their mobile phones (I don't think they realise how crap it's going to look) or relentless flashes going off.

I really think in this day and age, the people with a capable camera DSLR, don't need the flash/speedlite, I'm with you on the phones, I this instance, I'll be seated on a benched area, with some a###hole probably with their bloody phone in the air in front of me during the whole show, where as, I could have had a reasonably small lenses DSLR and not required any flash and got good quality shoots, allot better for the band and all around as I see it. any way.

[Roosta]

Why don't you take a good superzoom P&S with you instead?

Don't have one.

[old dog]

I was at a gig/concert last night and for a while there I wished I had taken my dslr........then.....this bloke comes in with a monopod with huge canon and bazooka lens on same. No flashing though but there was another bloke at the side with a flip out dslr (I think) and was videoing most of the time but then decided to take flashed stills. That was anoying. Lots of others holding up there P and S and phones. In a small venue as it was it was annoying. So I probably won`t take my camera when I go to another gig there. They seem (management) to be pretty free and easy about cameras and I`m not going to stress about not getting `that shot`......even though I would love to.

[Roosta]

I was at a gig/concert last night and for a while there I wished I had taken my dslr........then.....this bloke comes in with a monopod with huge canon and bazooka lens on same. No flashing though but there was another bloke at the side with a flip out dslr (I think) and was videoing most of the time but then decided to take flashed stills. That was anoying. Lots of others holding up there P and S and phones. In a small venue as it was it was annoying. So I probably won`t take my camera when I go to another gig there. They seem (management) to be pretty free and easy about cameras and I`m not going to stress about not getting `that shot`......even though I would love to.

Thanks Graeme, Did you get 'That Shot' tho?

[old dog]

nah....didn`t have my camera with me. That was ok though as the music was great....`John Hammond`....bluesman guitar player from USA.

[Mark L]

nah....didn`t have my camera with me. That was ok though as the music was great....`John Hammond`....bluesman guitar player from USA.

I'm thinking that's how it should be.
Are you there for the music, or to take photos to help you remember the music?
It may be good to have a visual reminder of any particular gig, but isn't the memory of the music enough?
BTW, I don't know the answer to these questions. I'd love to have photos of my favourite gigs, but I still remember them and they're no less memorable for lack of photographic reminders.
If you don't need the photos, you don't need T&Cs.