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You may be assuming that i am assuming. So this company is commissioning you for photographs, ie they are employing your services.Originally Posted by Beefa69
you've descibed in a nutshell a photographer who runs a business (missing a few important bits). yet you have no aspirations, so your post is not clear to me.While I have no aspirations to be a pro-tog (especially with all the negativity here about the dying industry) I am faced with a situation where I can either start a company, ie register a business, get a website, print some cards and get paid for providing pics
Successful People Make Adjustments - Evander Holyfield
Your kidding me right? You want to argue semantics around what a self employed tog is? You list every wedding / portrait client as your employer?
If I am self employed I take it to indicate I am self employed. These people are clients.
However entertain me as to what you "wonder" about a client who is wanting to purchase photography that they find appealing?
You sound very supportive about it all.
Settle petal.
If someone wants to give you good money for your photos and they've seen what the are getting and you've not misrepresented yourself go for it
But if you think that translates to an easy career that's a myth.
Darren
Gear : Nikon Goodness
Website : http://www.peakactionimages.com
Please support Precious Hearts
Constructive Critique of my images always appreciated
Wow, what a read.
Ill agree with the comments about how you can get professional results by buying this camera, how today's technology can get almost anyone a great looking pic time and time again and lastly how an entry level kit is now more affordable and within reach for your avg person Being the foremost reasons for the misconception.
I also get the impression a few people feel threatened by new members wanting to go pro over night.
Rather than wonder how and why, ask more what can we do and how do i point you in the right direction. Doing this will ensure the hobby (to most) we all love will continue to grow and thrive
I wouldn't say threatened, I would say annoyed. Why spend 2-3 years playing second fiddle to another photographer (lets say in the portrait/wedding arena) learning all about exposure, posing, lighting etc etc when you can buy a good camera and claim to know what you are doing because you shoot over the shoulder of someone? Fauxtogs are making it so hard for full time professional photographers as they generally supply crap and it reflects on the photography community, those who do it for a living not becuase they can spend loads of money on the best equipment.
Thread was a great read
Id say is not even annoyed, it's more frustrated. Frustrated becuase every month there are another 200 photographers who join sites like this or facebook and immediately "turn pro" with all the gear and no idea, or no gear and no idea.....but then start delivering drivel (as I would if you suddenly asked me to start doing drawings for sale) thereby driving prices and expectations down making it harder for everyone else. Massive generalisation, but, there you go.
Frustrated is a much better term. In fact maybe frustrating annoyance could work well?
Yep, for sure. I can see how one would feel. But what can you do? Its a free Country, and the best country thats for sure. So good that dreams can be followed no matter how big or small and regardless of what others think.
To me the true professionals will offer advice and support to anyone looking for it no matter how dumb the questions or posts are. Thats what makes them professional.
I agree with the above, this is indeed a great thread with some excellent points. It also really singles out the passionate members. A must read for all noob's i think
Wayne.
Personally, more bemused than anything. why someone thinks photography at a professional level requires no experience is beyond me. on top of that the business side of things, and how the two interrelate, all learnt overnight... maybe its in the camera manual...
Last edited by WhoDo; 31-08-2011 at 6:23pm.
Really? Go knock on say Yervants door and ask some "dumb" questions and see what responses you get, while you are at it head down the road and visit Rocco and Nick and ask some more dumb questions, they will hold their hand out and say here is our course date, how about you attend?
I find the only ones good with offering FREE advice are those inbetween starting out and going professional (I am deeming professional as one who is a full member of the AIPP). Many professionals simply do not have the time to discuss this with fauxtogs. I know my mentor, a photographer who has been in the game for 27 years didn't just roll over and offer me advice/work, I had to beg and prove myself and even then I am not sure he has really given me any advice it has all been learnt through watching what he does lol.
Firstly, im not here to start any further argument, just stating as i see it from my point of view as a new member and begginer in the world of photography. When i was refering to "professionals" i was meaning here online where there is an abundance of members with more than enough knowledge to share. Thats what were here for right? to share our knowledge, offer support and feedback in the efforts the member asking the questions will infact learn something, then later on be able to pass on the same information to another new member etc etc..Isnt that how forums work?
I read a few pages back about someone feeling intimidated to post, im now starting to feel the same, worried ill be laughed at and labelled a "fauxtog" as you like to call it.
Threadstarter
I know several professionals, who if not busy on a shoot are happy to spend some time and discuss photography in all its aspects, from taking shots, processing to the business side of things. I think it depends what sort of person the professional is. I know people in a whole range of careers who charge you in 5 minute blocks for their time, and I know others in the same career, who are happy to give away knowledge and advice freely. They are the people I seek out. It also depends on how you approach them, there is a lot to be said for learning effective communication, cause it can lead you two ways "here is my course date" or "ok, this is how you do that".
Two scenario's:
1. I get on well with my lawyer, I can call her and ask a question and she says " we will catch up on the account later". Often we will meet for a coffee, and I have never been sent an account for information she gives me at our coffee chats or phone calls. Sometimes I get a bill if I email her specific questions, or go to her office, sometimes I don't. if she wants some photos of her family etc, I generally do them for free. It is about relationship building, between people.
2. I got invited to a dinner a while ago, from a professional inside my own vocation. One of the other professionals that came, his wife was a lawyer. During the meal, someone asked her a couple of legal questions pertinent to the general conversation we were having. A week later they got a bill in the mail for 'legal advice'.
Some people just want to charge for their services at every turn, others are willing and able to freely give their knowledge and skills. So if I approached someone with a question, outside of their work place, or working environment, as part of a chance meeting etc, and they told me 'here are my course dates', I would go find someone else. These people do not have one piece of information that they have not learned, thus others have this same information. They don't 'own' the rights to the answer to 'what shutter speed would be suitable"... They have no exclusive access to some information that, they alone, know.
There are pure business people who see their role as making money at every available opportunity, and there are people, who happen to be in business. I know which ones I prefer to interact with.
Last edited by ricktas; 01-09-2011 at 7:18am.
"It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro
Constructive Critique of my photographs is always appreciated
Nikon, etc!
RICK
My Photography
Its partly a tribute to the fabulous photographs that pro photographers take and share that it seems so easy. Obviously even the best photo can't portray the years of practice and the days of thinking, planning, set up, exposure, selection and processing that you pro guys put into your work. I particularly found inspiration in ricktas ANZAC day shots (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/for...ighlight=anzac) these capture more than just a person on a day, more like an emotion. However, my struggles with playing guitar for years has taught me that it is never as simple as it seems.
Alex Delaforce - Teacher / Education and Technology Manager, Gold Coast
Canon 6D, Canon 50D (died), Tokina 12-28, Tamron 70-200 (VC), Sigma 50.
Threadstarter
Don't be intimidated. We don't allow personal attacks on AP and if someone called you a fauxtog directly, that would result in action from the mods or myself. We want AP to be a safe environment for members of all levels to interact and discuss photography. You as a beginner are just as entitled to post, and state your opinions, as someone with 25 years experience as a pro. AP is for everyone. If you ever get attacked in a thread, report it, we will investigate and act.
Sounds like we need the wambulance in here
On may way into work this morning I see just about every paper has a very timely article on Lincoln Harrison and his long exposure star trails. Harrison bought his first camera last year to take pics of clothes on ebay... you guys must be really frustrated by that. Even rates a full article on the Dailymail in the UK. Amateur hack !! how dare he
I can see the amusement from a long time skilled photographer when a noob shows up, buys himself an SLR and claims he is going pro. I feel a little pity when a amateur with enthusiasm wants to take pics and sell their work and finds a thread like this that, to me, reeks of photo-snobbery elitism.
Find me an industry today that is not under threat from new comers to the market and from other players who are willing to charge less. House painting is a great example with cheap semi skilled labour willing to cut the bum out of traditional prices. People will pay what they want to pay, and the ones who suffer are those people who have devoted their life to this chosen profession. The skilled artisan will still have a market but it is very much different from where it used to be. The successful artisan will recognise this and change as needed.
My own profession and industry has been suffering the same "pro-tog" "faux-tog" threat for a lot longer than has been happening here. Having a forum to bleat about it may be nice... like a warm blanky and a cuddle from your mum when you are a little upset, but reality is it is not going to change anything.
I read the thread about how much people make from photography, looks pretty grim for you lot.
If people are still buying photos, why arent you selling them? Whats wrong with your business model?
Why would anyone in their right mind want to take up photography as a profession ??
Alexdtel... I used to teach guitar for a few years and I will tell you some people pick up a guitar and are born naturals. Within 6 months they are out gigging making money and writing music. Then there are some who practice for years until they reach the same level and feel confident that they are now experienced enough to claim themselves a musician. Those guys look at the new guy that has been playing for 6 months and shake their head at some newcomer thinking they can be as good as the old hand.... sounds familiar huh.
Incidentally there are some, even after 12 months of lessons, just don't have it.
Sorry if you got the impression I was labelling you a "fauxtog" this term I reserve as, umm, let's say, a mother who buys a camera, starts a facebook page, does a few really bad photos of her children thenthinks she can sell her services because she and her friends think her photos are brilliant. I was not labelling anyone in this thread that term and I do apologise if that is how it seems.
For the record, I am happy to help out with anyone who has a question at a wedding etc when I am not busy. If someone emails with a question, I will do what I can to answer within reason (although it gets tiring with emails asking what settings where used for a shot etc, seriously does anyone use the same settings for every shot for landscapes?)
So yeah, apologies if it seemed I was labelling you, I was not.
No frustration at all, the guys images are wonderful and all the best to him (I wish I had his patience for star trails, I try and make time to do them, but I end up having a few beers at the pub insteadOn may way into work this morning I see just about every paper has a very timely article on Lincoln Harrison and his long exposure star trails. Harrison bought his first camera last year to take pics of clothes on ebay... you guys must be really frustrated by that. Even rates a full article on the Dailymail in the UK. Amateur hack !! how dare he). My issue is with what is posted above, people who get a acamera take a few baby snapshots then sell their services in an unmoderated industry.
All good, i think i jumped the gun a little.
Im just here to learn what i can and enjoy my re kindled spark for photography. I may ask dumb questions fromk time to time but i would hope you guys, as profesionals will point me in the right direction.
To get this back on topic, Rick, as a noob myself.. to me the main reasons photography is portrayed as an easy profession is:
* Marketing, as mentioned previously you can now purchase a DSLR that has is claimed to produce "Professioanl results"
* Cost, The avg DSLR now coming in what you guys call "kits" at a cost that avg guys (like me) can afford.
* Entry level DSLR's are now so user friendly, you dont need a degree to operate one (just a degree to operate one well lol)
* Editing software is alot cheaper than it used to be.
Thats just my opinion on the subject
Wayne
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