D7000 vs D300s

[arthurking83]

....... when swapping from D700 to D7000 as the controls are slightly different, the most annoying being that can't set the front control dial to be for EV compensation, but there are a few other niggles.......

Not even in Shutter Priority mode?

Isn't there an option to reverse the controls(and set command via the front wheel and sub command via the rear wheel?)

Personally I'd find that confusing anyhow, as I'm just so used to how Nikon have them set by default as they are. Command(rear) and subcommand(front) as they are, and quick compensation via the command wheel. I do get myself confused tho, on the very rare occasion when I switch to [S] mode and confuse myself.

If I wanted pure higher ISO quality, then the D7000 is most certainly the way to go(as well as slightly better dynamic range at lower ISO's too), but I reckon for pure performance the 300's are a bit better specced.

As for this UHS-1 card type, I tend not to get too interested in 'theoretical' ancillary performances until they have proven themselves to be capable of what they're supposed to be!
At least we know that CF cards are capable of an extremely fast transfer rate

[zollo]

As for this UHS-1 card type, I tend not to get too interested in 'theoretical' ancillary performances until they have proven themselves to be capable of what they're supposed to be!
At least we know that CF cards are capable of an extremely fast transfer rate

its quite far from theoretical do watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyJ13lZEsw

[knumbnutz]

Thats pretty much where i'm at.
Its about $250 difference at the moment and if the lens works on the D7000 or i can get it chipped for free then D7000 is probably the better option. If of course the supposed new D400 came in at $1500~ then its a different ball game....

I would be waiting for the D300s replacement unless you are constrained by budget. It is supposedly only days away, and tests will no doubt soon follow.

[ecopix]

Lovely shots, Lance. Could you tell us how you have the High NR set on the D7000? I’ve found that on my D300s (I mean plural of D300 – tricky, that), High NR needs to be set to Low, which gives moderate grain but good detail.

If set to Normal, the detail is badly affected (the equivalent of shooting through a tele lens a few grand cheaper than the one you shelled out for!!), and the grain, while smoothened, tends to get clumpy, with largish black dots that persist when viewed at normal magnifications.

Of course it’s hard to judge grain and detail on 1000 pixel screen images. Do you find the fine detail gets lost on the D7000 at 1600 or 3200 ISO with NR on?

While I’m here I should clarify my customer comment in the above post, lest the good people I’m working for think I’m referring to them!

‘Customers’: commercial clients and art directors - the types who are forever telling you how to do your job and that the next photog can do it cheaper or better or both. I don’t refer to the lovely conservation people I’ve worked with. They leave the technical to the technician.

AWC are unbelievable to work for – they tell me what reserve to go to and leave the rest up to me! Can’t get a better ‘customer’ than that, and I reciprocate by pushing myself that bit further to get the best shots I can for them, and buying the best camera, all things considered….

I would say the D400 will be more than $1500! Consider the evolution of the D100, D200 and D300, which have slowly been going up market, the dropping of the D2x pro DX camera, and the upping of the D90 series to the D7000 with higher specs like non-CPU lens compatibility, full metal jacket, 150000 cycle shutter. I’m guessing the D400 will be a fully pro DX camera with a price (and maybe the weight and size?) to match. Not sure if I need that…

Thanks for all this valuable info.

[Lance B]

Not even in Shutter Priority mode?

Isn't there an option to reverse the controls(and set command via the front wheel and sub command via the rear wheel?)

You can reverse the controls, but it still doesn't give me the option of having EV compensation on either front or rear wheel without needing to press the EV comp button as well. I like to use rear for aperture and front for EV compensation as this is what I have set up on my D700 and how I could set my Pentax cameras when I used them. As it is, I have to press the EV comp button and then turn the rear wheel to adjust compensation, which slows things down as I end up fumbling for buttons. With the D700, all I need to do is turn the front dial without the need to push the EV comp button.

Personally I'd find that confusing anyhow, as I'm just so used to how Nikon have them set by default as they are. Command(rear) and subcommand(front) as they are, and quick compensation via the command wheel. I do get myself confused tho, on the very rare occasion when I switch to [S] mode and confuse myself.

But you need to press the EV comp button as well as turn the rear dial, whereas with my method, as used on my D700, all you need to do is turn the front dial without pushing the EV comp button, much faster!

If I wanted pure higher ISO quality, then the D7000 is most certainly the way to go(as well as slightly better dynamic range at lower ISO's too), but I reckon for pure performance the 300's are a bit better specced.

I would have to agree. However, for my purpose, which is basically using the D7000 for long lens work and therefore birding due to the crop factor, I find that I am usually needing to use high ISO in order to use high shutter speeds to stop action and in order to employ the old 1/focal length x 1.5 (for DX) rule of thumb. Also, many of these birds are in the bushes and therefore dark, or I am trying to get even light which is in the late afternoon or early morning which is also when they are most active and also when the light is dimmer. If the replacement D300 has as good ISO (but will probably be better) as the D7000, then I will more than likely get that for my long lens camera as it will mirror the functionality of the D700 (and proabably the D700 replacement as well).

As for this UHS-1 card type, I tend not to get too interested in 'theoretical' ancillary performances until they have proven themselves to be capable of what they're supposed to be!
At least we know that CF cards are capable of an extremely fast transfer rate

[Lance B]

Lovely shots, Lance.

Thank you for your kind comment.

Could you tell us how you have the High NR set on the D7000? I’ve found that on my D300s (I mean plural of D300 – tricky, that), High NR needs to be set to Low, which gives moderate grain but good detail.

I can't remember where I have the noise set at, but it is either low or normal. I will check tonight when I get home.

I shoot RAW, convert to 16bit TIFF in Capture One Pro 6 with all necessary adjustments like WB saturation exposure, lens aberrations ets. In Photoshop CS5, I then use Noiseware Pro plug in for noise reduction if applicable and then reduce for web and sharpen with Power Retouche plug in.

If set to Normal, the detail is badly affected (the equivalent of shooting through a tele lens a few grand cheaper than the one you shelled out for!!), and the grain, while smoothened, tends to get clumpy, with largish black dots that persist when viewed at normal magnifications.

Of course it’s hard to judge grain and detail on 1000 pixel screen images. Do you find the fine detail gets lost on the D7000 at 1600 or 3200 ISO with NR on?

It depends on the exposure and whether there is much dark or light colours in the image and whether the DR is within range. Generally, at ISO1600, the detail is still very good and at ISO3200 there is minimal loss of detail. As you can see by the lemur shot, there is certainly plenty of detail! But it is light colours and well within DR and therefore noise is minimal even at ISO6400!

While I’m here I should clarify my customer comment in the above post, lest the good people I’m working for think I’m referring to them!

I tend to agree with those sentiments when it comes to some people, ie "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing". I actually think many of us get caught up with the nuances and minor advantages of one camera over the other, when in all reality, the difference is so small that most can't even see it even if it is pointed out!

[qoute]‘Customers’: commercial clients and art directors - the types who are forever telling you how to do your job and that the next photog can do it cheaper or better or both. I don’t refer to the lovely conservation people I’ve worked with. They leave the technical to the technician.[/quote]

I hear what you say!

AWC are unbelievable to work for – they tell me what reserve to go to and leave the rest up to me! Can’t get a better ‘customer’ than that, and I reciprocate by pushing myself that bit further to get the best shots I can for them, and buying the best camera, all things considered….

I would say the D400 will be more than $1500! Consider the evolution of the D100, D200 and D300, which have slowly been going up market, the dropping of the D2x pro DX camera, and the upping of the D90 series to the D7000 with higher specs like non-CPU lens compatibility, full metal jacket, 150000 cycle shutter. I’m guessing the D400 will be a fully pro DX camera with a price (and maybe the weight and size?) to match. Not sure if I need that…

Thanks for all this valuable info.

I agree. I think the D400 will be much dearer than AU$1500, more like AU$1999.

[Wayne]

I can see the D300s replacement nearer to $2500AUD, the D300 was almost that when it debuted.

[Sar NOP]

If the D300s replacement is a DX pro body, it will probably be around AU$5K !!!

Nikon won't set the price of the new DX body (D400 or whatever) too low, just to kill the D7000 sale...

[arthurking83]

You can reverse the controls, but it still doesn't give me the option of having EV compensation on either front or rear wheel without needing to press the EV comp button as well. I like to use rear for aperture and front for EV compensation as this is what I have set up on my D700 and how I could set my Pentax cameras when I used them. As it is, I have to press the EV comp button and then turn the rear wheel to adjust compensation, which slows things down as I end up fumbling for buttons. With the D700, all I need to do is turn the front dial without the need to push the EV comp button.



But you need to press the EV comp button as well as turn the rear dial, whereas with my method, as used on my D700, all you need to do is turn the front dial without pushing the EV comp button, much faster!.....

Aha! I knew I knew what you were referring too, but I didn't know that by default it was set to off.

What you are referring too Lance is easy exposure compensation ... no special feature and Nikon have had it on this level body since the D70(that I know of).

Firstly: Menu item b3, it's easy compensation, it's set to off, you want it on, set it to on.
This is what you are referring too.
My confusion as to why you refer to it by the specific command dial, is most likely due to the fact that you shoot in Shutter Priority for most of the time.
What you describe is true in Shutter priority, but in Aperture Priority mode, you (easily)compensate by tuning the rear dial(command wheel) instead.
All Nikon's at this level and above work in this manner.
I thought you had a special feature on the D700 where you could set easy compensation adjustment to only work via the front dial(sub command wheel). <- hence my confusion.

The reverse controls feature is also another way to alter the setting you are referring too. Where Command and Sub Command change from rear and front respectively, to front and rear respectively.

Anyhow.... check menu b3, set it to on and have fun.

Note of course you don't get easy compensation when in Manual mode, nor in Program mode tho. You need to press the exposure compensation button and do it the old fashioned way.

..... I think the D400 will be much dearer than AU$1500, more like AU$1999.

LOL! Lance you must be a recent convert to the Nikon fold ... try $2599 as the cheapest base price at introduction, most likely more like $2799 at most retailers for a while as the hype wears off after the first three months, and then slowly reducing to a more evenly keeled $1899 after three solid years of solid profit building for Nikon
(my money is on the magic figure of either $2899 or $2999 RRP here in Aus, as the starting price!)

[arthurking83]

Oh! and Zollo. That link to the YouTube vid is pretty useless really. I feel for the poor bloke tho, and maybe his understanding of (Nikon) camera operation and settings is a bit below par.
If you want to do a speed test on the card, unless the D7000 is limited to a buffer of 10 shots in raw format as the upper limit, he should have to set the camera to an unfettered burst limit(it should have a setting for 100 frames in a continuous burst). By setting this setting to 100, you effectively get to use all of the available memory buffer before it fills up and slows to the slower rate of shooting.

On the top LCD there is an indicator for the possible buffer size remaining at any given time. If you half press the release, an r value is flashed up onto the LCD. This rXX value is how many frames are available in the buffer. But!!! It can be arbitrary, and not 100% reliable(I don't know if it's supposedly a guide or an exact amount) but it can also be artificially set too. Instead of setting max burst to 100, you set it to say 6 or 9 or 10 frames, the r value will change to indicate this.

In the video link provided, the r value is only 10. Either the maker of the video didn't know about this max continuous burst setting, or the D7000 is set to a lower value of 10 frames???
FWIW: D300 does at least 17 that I know of. With my old card, it ran out of puff at about 6 or 9 or whatever(but this suited me fine for a long time), and with my new card, the r value says 17(that is r17), but I've had up to 24 frames in a burst, and can easily get 22 or so before slow down.
I suppose the difference is really in that it allows you an extra second of high speed burst. If that makes a difference, then there it is!

BUT!! in saying all that the D300 has a massive downside to it's performance ability which is very often overlooked(and interestingly enough the D3x is afflicted by the same issue).
When set to 14 bit raw mode, you can't get more than 1.5 fps, no matter what. This is the limit allowed by the sensor. It's an issue with the design of the Sony sensor, or more accurately the readout lines(DAC converter bandwidth, or something similar).
The D7000's sensor tho is different and max fps is available in both 12bit and 14bit modes. I generally don't shoot in 14bit mode for this reason, although I can do so when I do landscapes.. but I have to remember to set the camera to my Landscape specific memory bank.

[Lance B]

Aha! I knew I knew what you were referring too, but I didn't know that by default it was set to off.

Yes it is set to off as it was on my D700!

What you are referring too Lance is easy exposure compensation ... no special feature and Nikon have had it on this level body since the D70(that I know of).

Firstly: Menu item b3, it's easy compensation, it's set to off, you want it on, set it to on.
This is what you are referring too.
My confusion as to why you refer to it by the specific command dial, is most likely due to the fact that you shoot in Shutter Priority for most of the time.
What you describe is true in Shutter priority, but in Aperture Priority mode, you (easily)compensate by tuning the rear dial(command wheel) instead.
All Nikon's at this level and above work in this manner.
I thought you had a special feature on the D700 where you could set easy compensation adjustment to only work via the front dial(sub command wheel). <- hence my confusion.

See, I'm an idiot as I didn't look at that on the D7000. I did make this change on the D700 and I had forgotton what it was called and stupidly thought that the D7000 didn't have this feature. I thank you from the bottom of my heart!

It now works perfectly.

The reverse controls feature is also another way to alter the setting you are referring too. Where Command and Sub Command change from rear and front respectively, to front and rear respectively.

Yes, I have altered these to the way I want them, ie rear for aperture and fron for EV comp (as you pointed out with the above easy compensation)

Anyhow.... check menu b3, set it to on and have fun.

Note of course you don't get easy compensation when in Manual mode, nor in Program mode tho. You need to press the exposure compensation button and do it the old fashioned way.

Yep.

LOL! Lance you must be a recent convert to the Nikon fold

A newbie, just over 12 months.

... try $2599 as the cheapest base price at introduction, most likely more like $2799 at most retailers for a while as the hype wears off after the first three months, and then slowly reducing to a more evenly keeled $1899 after three solid years of solid profit building for Nikon
(my money is on the magic figure of either $2899 or $2999 RRP here in Aus, as the starting price!)

You could well be correct as you know the history better than I. I was commenting on the price of a D300s as I know it now, not when it was introduced.

[arthurking83]

The reverse controls feature is also another way to alter the setting you are referring too. Where Command and Sub Command change from rear and front respectively, to front and rear respectively.

......
Yes, I have altered these to the way I want them, ie rear for aperture and fron for EV comp (as you pointed out with the above easy compensation)
.....

Aha! That makes sense now(why you explained it all in this manner.

In [A] and [M] mode, because command wheel controls shutter and subcommand wheel controls aperture, easy compensation is used via the shutter control wheel(ie. rear wheel) by default.
In [S] mode, easy exposure compensation is made via the aperture control ... ie front wheel. I wasn't sure if you just used [S] mode most of the time as you seem to do a lot of wildlife/birding type photography.

Your explanation all makes sense now.

One thing I wished Nikon would do (at least for the higher end bodies) is a configurable Function button for the left hand. That is, instead of(or in addition too) the two function buttons on the RHS, a left hand operated Fn button would be nice to have on the odd occasion.
I haven't changed the function buttons defaults on the D300(exposure bracketing on the Fn button, DOF preview on the DOFP button(which is just another Fn button).. but something I'd like to have access too, is a third Fn button where I could momentarily press, to do various other settings changes BUT on the LHS. The whole camera seems to be so right hand centric, where everything is adjusted and selected via the right hand. Even tho I'm right handed and it's the most natural manner for me to work, (being male)I find multitasking difficult enough in trying to do two things at once.. let alone three!
It'd be nice to be able to press a button on the left momentarily and using the rear wheel(Command for me) to move the focus point around the frame. Sometimes using the thumbwheel feels 'wrong' or awkward, and I don't want to lose the current Fn button settings(as I use them a lot) AND they awkward to use whilst half pressing(for metering) or focusing or whatever.
In general I find Nikon ergonomics to be 99.9% perfect (for me, on these larger sized bodies). But this concentration of righthandedness by Nikon is the only black mark and hence downgrade by 0.1%

[Lance B]

Aha! That makes sense now(why you explained it all in this manner.

In [A] and [M] mode, because command wheel controls shutter and subcommand wheel controls aperture, easy compensation is used via the shutter control wheel(ie. rear wheel) by default.
In [S] mode, easy exposure compensation is made via the aperture control ... ie front wheel. I wasn't sure if you just used [S] mode most of the time as you seem to do a lot of wildlife/birding type photography.

Your explanation all makes sense now.

It's a funny thing when we try to explain something in print, like on a forum, as you can visualise it in your own mind and know how you are doing it, but sometimes the explanation doesn't quite make it clear.

One thing I wished Nikon would do (at least for the higher end bodies) is a configurable Function button for the left hand. That is, instead of(or in addition too) the two function buttons on the RHS, a left hand operated Fn button would be nice to have on the odd occasion.

Agreed.

I would also like Nikon to include a 2 second (or adjustable) timer for mirror up function. It works by pressing the shutter which lifts the mirror and 2 seconds later the shutter fires. This means that you do not have to use a remote control to release the shutter so as to minimse camera shake when you press the shutter even when on a tripod. Pentax has this option and it works brilliantly. Nikon have mirror up lock, but you still have to press the shutter button again to trip the shutter which can mean that it can cause camera shake even on a tripod. Yes, you can use a remote control to avoid camera shake, but it means setting this up. Having a 2 second (or adjustable) timer means that you just press it once and mirror goes up first and then the shutter trips 2 seconds later.

I haven't changed the function buttons defaults on the D300(exposure bracketing on the Fn button, DOF preview on the DOFP button(which is just another Fn button).. but something I'd like to have access too, is a third Fn button where I could momentarily press, to do various other settings changes BUT on the LHS. The whole camera seems to be so right hand centric, where everything is adjusted and selected via the right hand. Even tho I'm right handed and it's the most natural manner for me to work, (being male)I find multitasking difficult enough in trying to do two things at once.. let alone three!

I'd like that too!

It'd be nice to be able to press a button on the left momentarily and using the rear wheel(Command for me) to move the focus point around the frame. Sometimes using the thumbwheel feels 'wrong' or awkward, and I don't want to lose the current Fn button settings(as I use them a lot) AND they awkward to use whilst half pressing(for metering) or focusing or whatever.
In general I find Nikon ergonomics to be 99.9% perfect (for me, on these larger sized bodies). But this concentration of righthandedness by Nikon is the only black mark and hence downgrade by 0.1%

LOL. Coming from Pentax, all I can say is that Pentax and Nikon have about the best functionality as they are both very intuitively easy cameras to use. I tried Canon cameras a few times and they just baffle the hell out of me!!

[fillum]

I would also like Nikon to include a 2 second (or adjustable) timer for mirror up function.

Isn't this what Exposure Delay Mode (menu d9 on the D300) does? (Not something I've used much so I don't know how well it works).



Cheers.

[arthurking83]

Isn't this what Exposure Delay Mode (menu d9 on the D300) does? (Not something I've used much so I don't know how well it works).

Cheers.

Yeah exposure delay is the trick. The delay is approx 1 second and then the shutter activates automatically.
D80 and D90 had exposure delay only, and no mirror lockup function at all, D70s and D70 had no delay function at all(and in reality why I upgraded to a Dxxx body and not the D80 or D90).

I remember reading a post/blog/or report of some kind, somewhere on the net, where someone had 'tested' the effectiveness of the 1sec exposure delay on the then new D80, and compared it to a D200(I think).
This bloke found that with his lenses of up to 300mm(I think f/4) the 1sec delay was sufficient on the D80, as the resonance vibration (that causes the image degradation) dissipates to insignificance after about 400ms or so.. or words to that effect, but the problem he found was that on a longer lens(can't remember if it were a 400/2.8, 500/4 or what??.. but one of those long uber lenses, the resonance remained in the lens's tube for about 1sec, which made the exposure delay feature ineffective in some instances. He used all manner of accelerometers to measure stuff and come to a conclusion.
Partly due to his tests, I decided that a D80(back then) was not what I wanted. MLU was a feature I just had to have.

[peterb666]

If the D300s replacement is a DX pro body, it will probably be around AU$5K !!!

Nikon won't set the price of the new DX body (D400 or whatever) too low, just to kill the D7000 sale...

Somehow I doubt that Nikon will be setting the price of the D300S replacement to be more than double the current model and around $2000 higher than the current full-frame model above it.

Typical Ausrtralian store prices now are D7000 $1550, D300S $2000, D700 $3000.

[I @ M]

Typical Ausrtralian store prices now are D7000 $1550, D300S $2000, D700 $3000.

Street price on the D300s in the upmarket shopping centres is currently at IDR 14,200,000 if that helps at all.

[Blueywa]

I suppose my view is more simplistic;
If I had a D700, I would be inclined to go a D300/D300S due to them using same batteries, grips etc.
However I am in the reverse position as I already have a D300S, but my foray into FX would be a D700 for the same reasons.
Hopefully meaning much less chance of me finding I had the wrong spare battery with me in the field.

I have been down a similar road when choosing a spare camera body.
Finally chose a D90 because it uses same batteries, lens's cables, etc. and it performs reasonably well to boot.

[Wayne]

I would also like Nikon to include a 2 second (or adjustable) timer for mirror up function. It works by pressing the shutter which lifts the mirror and 2 seconds later the shutter fires. This means that you do not have to use a remote control to release the shutter so as to minimse camera shake when you press the shutter even when on a tripod. Pentax has this option and it works brilliantly. Nikon have mirror up lock, but you still have to press the shutter button again to trip the shutter which can mean that it can cause camera shake even on a tripod. Yes, you can use a remote control to avoid camera shake, but it means setting this up. Having a 2 second (or adjustable) timer means that you just press it once and mirror goes up first and then the shutter trips 2 seconds later.

On the D700 when using MUP, if you click the first time and leave it, 30secs late it will fire taking an exposure.

[Lance B]

On the D700 when using MUP, if you click the first time and leave it, 30secs late it will fire taking an exposure.

Interesting. A bit long to wait though, but good to know. Thanks.