Canon Australia updates RRP

[atky]

Canon Aust RRP 5D 2 http://www.canon.com.au/en-au/Pro-Ph...EOS-5D-Mark-II $3299
Canon USA RRP 5D 2 http://usa.canon.com/cusa/profession...al_slr_cameras $2499

[fess67]

Retail space rental is way over the odds in Oz.

I think it is a bit of a myth to blame it of retail labour staff - who get paid crap wages. Some of my students report pay of < $10 hour. Not a lot in the context of running a shop.

True...in a way. I have just closed a retail outlet. Staff costs were 30%. Rent was 30% (inc gas, elec, etc), GST 10%, Franchise costs 10%, cost of goods 30%.

Add that up....30 + 30 + 10 + 10 +30....110. YEP 110% - and that is with me working 80 hours a week for no income. Now, tell me the way to make it all work is to lower the price of my product!!!

Fact is, in order to survive I tried to reduce costs.....got rid of good staff and employed kids at $8 an hour...criminal but the law says that is their rate of pay....still not enough...raise prices........hmmm yeah that works..............OH NO, now I actually have people abusing my staff (under 16 since thay are the cheap labour) because they feel the product is too expensive!!!

"screw you I can get it online for less!"

Damn....what do I do now, I already have a 10% loss.... OH..I GET IT!!!! DROP MY PRICE!!! that means I can sell more product (at a loss) and dig myself a bigger hole.....INSPIRED!!!!

/rant.

Sorry. just got out of a retail situation losing me money hand over fist and tired of 'customers' telling me how it can work.

<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>

Lol guess my rant was not done.

Seriously guys, if you want to see it from a retailers side give me a call. I am all for consumer freedom but look at the impact to our way of life.

/rant / rant /rant......<breathes deep> ok...emotion gone...breath...breath....breath...ahhhhhhhhhh.....

Grrrrrrrr..........

[Tricky]

Don't blame you for having a rant, Fess67. Sorry to hear what you've had to go through, particularly customers abusing your staff and having to close your shop.

I do, however, defend the consumer's right to search out the lowest price even if this shifts business overseas.

Seismic change underway in retailing in Australia. Ambush from all sides: GST inequity relative to imported goods under $1000, high (and rising) staff costs, rents that are lagging / out of sync with retail conditions (will eventually come down as retail space demand falls away), and consumer demand shifting online (people have got used to buying goods online - prices are low and the risks involved largely manageable).

Whilst terribly difficult for those that work in retailing, alas this isn't the first or last severe shift to impact an industry (eg coal mining or car manufacture in England).

[Scotty72]

I have bought my 7d body grey and my L lenses 'legit'.

I'll tell you why:

The bodies: well, these days are getting to be almost disposable. The grey guy (based in Aus) gave me a 2 year retail warranty. I feel that a camera will either work or not. Withing the 2 years, if it goes wrong, I'm covered.

Lenses: I thought about grey but, lenses (esp the Ls) should be a long term investment (24-105L excepted ). But, sometimes, they 'go soft' or have other probs that are not absolute in nature. I found a bricks and mortar guy here who (despite charging about 20% more) won me over with a bit of service. Told me that I got the lens home and it was a 'soft copy' or needed a calibration etc - bring it back. In other words, he was a knowledgeable guy who made it is mission to make me feel comfortable with handing over a couple of grand.

I feel that many customers will pay a little more if they get good service. I constantly tired of Gen Ys 'serving' me when chewing gum, talking to their mate of the phone or texting them. I don't want a 16 year old calling me 'mate' or treating me as though I was interrupting their rest.

This might be fine if I'm buying a pair of socks at K-mart, but, many retailers seem to not get the idea that someone buying a $3000 lens wants a little more reassurance than that - otherwise - if you're going to get treated like crap, then ebay treats you like crap more cheaply.

[Xenedis]

I cannot say I found Canon's recent RRP decreases all that comprehensive or impressive, or all that relevant to me.

Should I be in the market for another lens, I think I shall stick to buying from the one or two non-retail outfits from which all of my lenses has been sourced, as the prices are still cheaper despite than Canon's new RRPs.

[atky]

"<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>"

Its not the consumers fault that retail rent is a ripoff if the rent is to high don't sign the lease.
If retailers didn't sign the lease with Westfield etc the shopping centers would be empty and the rent's would soon drop.
If your business plan requires you to be in a over valued premises get a new one.
Don't blame the consumer for doing what you should be doing, looking for better value.
If the Australian distributor wants to much for your product do what your x customers are doing get it of shore. (Especially when it is manufactured of shore)

[Tannin]

^ Gosh, life is simple, isn't it!

[Scotty72]

Well, atky has a point.

Of course a consumer want to pay the price that gives the most value. Generally, people will pay more only if they think there is a benefit (such as service). Australian retail and service are rarely mentioned in the same sentence any more without the addition of the words 'lack of'.

It's the same as asking people to pay more tax than they would otherwise have to. Unless they see a benefit from it they wont. Isn't this the great cry about the Carbon Tax - 'it won't help change the temperature.'

For decades, the retailers have been able to rip us off by pulling the wool over our eyes. Now, they just don't like it when the internet has helped lift the wool - and now we can see just how much the rip off is.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... Or offer a service!

Scotty

[Xenedis]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... Or offer a service!

These days, differentiating on price alone is very hard to do.

As we've seen, and from cost prices some B&M staff have told me, the parallel importers are able to sell lenses for a lower price than B&Ms pay for them, so it's an impossible situation for the retailers.

What the retailers would need to offer is an excellent level of service.

Even then, that's got its challenges, as there are consumers like myself who simply don't need the service. People don't sell lenses to me; I buy lenses from them. In other words, there's nothing about the product that a salesperson can tell me, that I don't already know. I already know the product; what I need is a good price. I want the item; it's just a matter of who gets to supply it to me at a price I consider acceptable.

Of course, when it comes to warranty issues, that's probably where a consumer like myself would potentially need service.

The 'problem' in that regard is that I have never needed warranty service, so the issue of whether it's worth paying more for Australian warranties or some sort of service level from the retailer, is a matter of risk assessment on the part of the consumer.

It's like insurance. For the most part it's a giant waste of money, but when you need it, it's worth its weight in gold.

[Scotty72]

Very true. But me, being a paranoid sort, am quite prepared to pay a premium (maybe 20%) for the security of them being my 'friend' if warranty is ever called for. I'm particularly twitchy about expensive lenses.

However, I suspect that service standards will soon be so bad in Oz that I will buy lenses via the web.



Scotty

[Tannin]

It's a vicious cycle, Scotty. Retailers are being forced to cut their costs by price competition, and that means they can't afford to provide proper service, which reduces their ability to compete, so they have to cut their prices to maintain sales, which reduces the amount they can spend on service, and so on.

Eventually, Australia will be an empty hole in the ground with no jobs and no ability to do anything except borrow money and spend it in Hong Kong.

[peterb666]

That is easily done if we assume the price difference is in cost of goods and the Aussie retailer is living it up on large profit margins. However, overheads such as retail rents, staff wages and taxes are not equal in all countries and this enables retail prices to vary.

So, the solution is simple, lower staff wages to the equivalent of those in China or Hong Kong, abolish the GST and lower the rent. Now they can sell it to us at 'grey' rates. Not sure I want to reduce my income or those of other Aussies and I am pretty certain the Government might miss all that tax!

What a load of rubbish. If someone can explain to me why most things in Australia are stupidly more expensive than elsewhere (even the US which has relatively high costs) do so. For example, Adobe Photoshop CS5, Australia $1699 rrp or $1629 by electronic delivery over the internet. US - USD $699. Please, how do you justify electronic delivery of software, most likely from an overseas server that is around 150% higher than the retail box price in the US.

I am waiting...

As far a camera gear is concerned, some show that Australian prices can be competitive. For example, Voigtlander products are amongst the cheapest in the world in Australia and recent Olympus pricing in Australia, e.g. with the latest PEN series is very competitive indeed.

[fess67]

"<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>"

Its not the consumers fault that retail rent is a ripoff if the rent is to high don't sign the lease.
If retailers didn't sign the lease with Westfield etc the shopping centers would be empty and the rent's would soon drop.
If your business plan requires you to be in a over valued premises get a new one.
Don't blame the consumer for doing what you should be doing, looking for better value.
If the Australian distributor wants to much for your product do what your x customers are doing get it of shore. (Especially when it is manufactured of shore)

All good points and valid.

I think my point, as has been articulated by others, is that it is not as simple as reducing the price of your product because there are many other factors in play other than the difference between cost and sale prices. I do not blame consumers for hunting for the best deal, it is what we all do. Just don't expect retailers to be around for too long. We have seen it with the big book stores and we will continue to see it with other industries as the global economy continues to sell across the Internet. Of course we need to move with the times etc, I just get annoyed when people think that reducing prices is the answer, like a magic fix.

[peterb666]

All good points and valid.

I think my point, as has been articulated by others, is that it is not as simple as reducing the price of your product because there are many other factors in play other than the difference between cost and sale prices. I do not blame consumers for hunting for the best deal, it is what we all do. Just don't expect retailers to be around for too long. We have seen it with the big book stores and we will continue to see it with other industries as the global economy continues to sell across the Internet. Of course we need to move with the times etc, I just get annoyed when people think that reducing prices is the answer, like a magic fix.

Capitalism works by pricing goods at what the market is willing to pay. Australia has always had relatively high prices. Most international trade is done in USD and most good bought in Australia are from overseas.

Other than cheap crap made in China and a modest lowering of the cost of cars, there have been few price reductions in Australia to match the fall against the USD from less than 60c to the current $1.05ish.

My son goes to university and I buy his text books. They are expensive and generally printed overseas. I have bought most of his books through a company called The Nile. They are a NZ company and have warehousing and some sourcing from Australia but it basically comes from wherever it is cheapest.

His last book was $135 from the bookshop university that he attends. I got it from The Nile and it came from the US via NZ to The Nile's Artarmon offices in Sydney and was then couried to me for $101. So far I have saved around $200 on my son's text books this year and all but one came from overseas.

Before that, I got a US made car manual for my Subaru, again through The Nile marked US $24.95 on the sticker on the shrink wrapping, then again shipped to NZ and then to Australia (it was probably already in NZ). All inclusive cost was $28. The rrp in Australia (no one had it in stock so order only) - $60.

Book, cameras, anything. If it isn't made in Australia, there is no excuse for local costs to be 100% higher than overseas costs. Twenty percent compared to the US, maybe. Any more is stupid. As I have mentioned, the importers of Voigtlander and Olympus Australia have shown you can have world competitive pricing in Australia. There are no excuses to justify the mark up of gear in Australia by some of the importers and wholesalers.

[dannat]

We compare to US which is often cheapest in world - if you look at euro & UK prices I think you will see they pay close to us. I have been led to believe some factors sway in US favor
1. Some makers charge stores when they make a sale ( they don't have to buy/hold stock)
2. Because US is such a prized market there is one price for them, one for rest of world ...I CN believe ths as high end binoculars 699 there, 1800 here

[Scotty72]

It's a vicious cycle, Scotty. Retailers are being forced to cut their costs by price competition, and that means they can't afford to provide proper service, which reduces their ability to compete, so they have to cut their prices to maintain sales, which reduces the amount they can spend on service, and so on.

Eventually, Australia will be an empty hole in the ground with no jobs and no ability to do anything except borrow money and spend it in Hong Kong.

Then, retailers shouldn't chase their tails and try to compete on price - unless they enjoy futile games.

Consumer behaviour is changing in Oz. People (not all but, enough) are chasing service and quality. Sure, there will always be the Costco / shoppa docket crowd who will queue for an hour and be treated like cattle in order to save $5.

Is that really the type of customer a retailer wants - who will argue for an hour over 5c?

There are plenty of others with a big of self-respect who will want a decent service.

Scotty

[Scotty72]

Capitalism works by pricing goods at what the market is willing to pay. Australia has always had relatively high prices. Most international trade is done in USD and most good bought in Australia are from overseas.

Other than cheap crap made in China and a modest lowering of the cost of cars, there have been few price reductions in Australia to match the fall against the USD from less than 60c to the current $1.05ish.

My son goes to university and I buy his text books. They are expensive and generally printed overseas. I have bought most of his books through a company called The Nile. They are a NZ company and have warehousing and some sourcing from Australia but it basically comes from wherever it is cheapest.

His last book was $135 from the bookshop university that he attends. I got it from The Nile and it came from the US via NZ to The Nile's Artarmon offices in Sydney and was then couried to me for $101. So far I have saved around $200 on my son's text books this year and all but one came from overseas.

Before that, I got a US made car manual for my Subaru, again through The Nile marked US $24.95 on the sticker on the shrink wrapping, then again shipped to NZ and then to Australia (it was probably already in NZ). All inclusive cost was $28. The rrp in Australia (no one had it in stock so order only) - $60.

Book, cameras, anything. If it isn't made in Australia, there is no excuse for local costs to be 100% higher than overseas costs. Twenty percent compared to the US, maybe. Any more is stupid. As I have mentioned, the importers of Voigtlander and Olympus Australia have shown you can have world competitive pricing in Australia. There are no excuses to justify the mark up of gear in Australia by some of the importers and wholesalers.

We recently bought about CANADIAN $ 500 worth of ice-hockey gear for my girl (a friend visited Toronto, ON). Retail price here. >A$1500

The Candain dollar is worth about $1.02 US. Aussie at the time we purchased was worth $1.07.

So, we were ripped off by > 3x.

I do appreciate that the ice-hockey economies of scale are not great in Oz but, three times is GREED.

[householddog]

Yes you would have to have some great service to justify a weeks+ worth of wages, on that purchase.

You could hire a sales person, to talk to you, for 2 days, about your product, in a fairly nice hotel room. You could also probably buy a few bottles Moet, just to make things nicer too.

I think there are a lot of things in play, in Australia.

Rents are high, for sure. Do you think they are any lower in Hong Kong, or New York? Both of these places destroy local pricing. The issue is that rents are overpriced, for where they are. To an extent, chain retailers are as much to blame for this, as anyone. They try to muscle each other out of retail space. In the past they simple passed the cost onto the consumer.

Staff wages are another matter, but the difference we are talking, would pay for days of staff costs, on a single L lens.

Wholesale costs are, probably the biggie. Then again, there is nothing stopping a retailer from offering a grey cameras, on the local market. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it. It's not like we are talking about intellectual property. I notice that BH Photo, actually offer both grey and US products.

I am glad that Canon is waking up to this, however, they have still been making profits out of the grey market, anyway.

[Scotty72]

Yes you would have to have some great service to justify a weeks+ worth of wages, on that purchase.

You could hire a sales person, to talk to you, for 2 days, about your product, in a fairly nice hotel room. You could also probably buy a few bottles Moet, just to make things nicer too.

It is usually very easy to dismiss anything with sarcasm. However, the vast majority of consumers still don't buy over the internet. Many would cite the security and service provided by bricks and mortar.

There is obviously a reason they are willing to pay over the odds (I don't think there are too many still running about saying, 'What's the internet?'

I think there is a correlation between the dropping of service standards and the rise of on-line shopping.

Scotty

[ameerat42]

I'm with you, Peter, at least to the extent that the idea of dropping prices should not be excluded out of hand. Yes, the others who talk about how hard it is have a point too. In my original post on this topic I was reacting to how the option just didn't seem to get a look-in.
Now I've found this site which lists prices for various CS5 products. Click on and select from the "Software" tab to get an idea of what they're are charging in euros. (Not the hopping ones.)
Am.