Bad customer/ payers

[JM Tran]

Gee, I have to say your last statement would sound pretty ordinary to me. That basically says he who pays most upfront wins, even AFTER you have agreed to do the job. If you agreed to take that $500 deposit (which you haven't in this case) that should be set in concrete that you will do the job despite a more lucrative offer from another client for the same date. What is to say that even after you get the $2750 from this client, you don't get offered a bigger more lucrative job and cancel on them anyway....

I don't doubt your ethics for a minute, but that last paragraph couldn't look good to a client.

aahhh that last comment stemmed from an earlier discussion with the groom Wayne, I couldnt remember exactly what he was arguing to me about - but it was something along the line of him putting himself in my shoes of a pro photographer and trying to justify his $500 deposit. I also wrote that to mean I am not interested in accommodating for them any longer, in a less tactful manner than previously - due to their umms and ahhhhs and bargaining attitude.

Do weddings long enough and you can smell a troublesome client a mile away - so I'd rather not accept it at all, even if it is a big booking.

[Dylan & Marianne]

From reading this, I'll stick to the weekend warrior gigs where the jobs are by word of mouth and recommendation :P

Actually, funnily enough, Australian Photography Magazine never state what they'll pay for articles or covers - it just seems to come at a random time after the issue is printed ..........not complaining though, I'm just happy to be published

[JM Tran]

From reading this, I'll stick to the weekend warrior gigs where the jobs are by word of mouth and recommendation :P

Actually, funnily enough, Australian Photography Magazine never state what they'll pay for articles or covers - it just seems to come at a random time after the issue is printed ..........not complaining though, I'm just happy to be published

ah but thats where I get most of my work from too Dylan, via word of mouth and recommendations - havent felt the need to formally advertise or put up a website yet even though there is one. For example last weekend I shot a wedding in Melb - they liked my work from nearly 3 yrs ago from my first ever wedding gig, a groomsman in this latest wedding I also shot 2 yrs ago who also stemmed from that first ever wedding. Now I have 3 more prospective clients who saw my work at the reception and are interested. So from 1 leading to a possible 6, its not a bad ratio for word of mouth.

A bride once told me during a meeting - photographers who extensively advertise and spam their works and have a stall at every single wedding expo are the ones that need more work, and cant get enough work - theres a ring of truth to that.

[I @ M]

Wayne and JMT, maybe a little misinterpretation has occurred.

I can clearly see that the intent of charging a largish ( 50% ) deposit is a way of ensuring that the client will think awfully hard about cancelling the date and equally that it will ensure that the photographer will be keen to carry out the work on the set date without thinking about changing horses mid stream so to speak.

In the scheme of a (relatively) expensive occasion such as a wedding, $500.00 lost may not seem like a huge amount to "client" to lose if they cancel for whatever reason but it certainly doesn't make up for lost income that the photographer could have had by booking a "sure thing" on that date.

A larger sum of $2500.00 is however fair recompense for the 'tog if the couple cancel, he is guaranteed to at least make his wages without having to get out of bed if everything goes pear shaped so he is not likely to go sniffing for other jobs ( presumably if he has normal business ethics ) and seems like a much fairer outcome all round to me.

I certainly don't see any problems laying that down in a contract right at the start of proceedings to ensure that fair business is conducted on the day.

I think it is just the way JMT has verbalised on the 'net about the situation that has caused misinterpretation.

[GoldenOrb]

as I see it. Its your own business and you (the owner) can trade as you please. If you are confident enough to take a 75% deposit then so be it..... stuff happens with weddings/ portraits/ design work... and a business needs to protect its self.
We are very clear on what we desire from our customers, we are very clear on what we can provide as a service to the point of media types etc etc etc.

The last business we were locked in to some pretty poorly written contracts made by a franchisor and his shocking lawyer that did not allow us to have any form of enforcement when it came to payment from stores. Basically if they didnt pay there was 5/10s of stuff all we could do. We approached the stores and sought our own terms and conditions... even then.. some stores were in considerable debt. 3 stores went bust but with a continual negotiation we still got paid... other suppliers of that store didnt.

As with the original post I was interested in how businesses/ traders dealt with poor paying customers.. and if there was a area of people/ groups that didnt fair too well.

It wasnt about generalising anyone (even with the bit I got edited on but hey I re read it again and thought.... oppps). Some of the people that approach us, we can see that they are struggling financially, but in saying that, they were our best customers. Some of our wealthiest customers/ business may well me our worst. I dont think there is a specific group of people just interested in see how others dealt with it, if you know what I mean

[virgal_tracy]

For me there is no generalisation when it comes to poor payers.

Working as a wedding / portrait photographer, the best defence that I have had is to ensure that payment is made before the date. Occassionally there are people who question why they have to pay in full before hand but, especially in the wedding industry, every other vendor makes sure that you pay before you get your product.

I disagree slightly with JMT. I enforce a set amount retainer (not deposit). There is legal differences in the definition. Retainers are non refundable whereas deposits are. The legal advice I was given was that retainers needed to be a set amount so that you could justify what it went for in the case of a cancellation. The set % made this more difficult because then I had to justify what extra work that I had to do on a $7500 job as opposed to a $3500.

Never had a government client bu corporate clients have been 30days net terms and I have never had a problem as I have had a contract in place before shooting. Process and procedure makes things much easier.

[Sheila Smart]

The bigger the client, the longest one has to wait for payment. It took one client (renewing a licence) 65 days to pay my account (net 15 days). I eventually did get paid but it took a couple of reminders and I also asked them what Telstra or Energy Australia would do if I advised them that my normal payments were 45 - 60 days! My contact symphathised!
Sheila

[Redgum]

Large deposits are of little consequence as your client is protected by law in most states if you don't perform. Conversely, deciding if a client is worthwhile is something you need to learn very early in the peace, contract or no contract. Learn to reject doubtful clients.
Government payments can be very tardy if you have little experience. I do a good deal of government work, sometimes paid in advance, sometimes paid on demand but rarely over my 30 day term. Keep in mind credit cards and Paypal.
There are ways and means of doing business with government which has absolutely nothing to do with photography.