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Thread: Climate Change Rally - Melbourne

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    Wonderful point to discuss, untidy rooms contribute to climate change.

    These people have grand kids I'd think and don't have left or right leanings. I'm an active member in the N.S.W. R.F.S and what these people with knowledge say here is our experience. https://emergencyleadersforclimateac....au/statement/

    Of cause discuss why the climate is changing but don't doubt it is. And it's changing faster than ever before without a volcano.

    That earlier quote is simply a distortion of the banners the kids carried during the demonstration which read something like "Why should we clean our rooms when you won't clean the planet!". A pretty valid point when you consider that adults are supposed to show a good example to children.

    There is of course no doubt that an element of climate change is natural. However, to deny that humans are significantly contributing to that change is no longer questioned by any reputable organisation or knowledgeable group. I noticed recently that such groups are now refusing to engage with climate change deniers simply because giving them oxygen achieves nothing and distracts us from the main objective. I'm largely adopting the same attitude.


    "If you want to be a better photographer, stand in front of more interesting stuff.” — Jim Richardson

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    Bob, I will ask you once again - how can a human caused climate change model simply ignore the exponential population growth already referenced in this thread?

    You continue to avoid this simple question.

    Does that make people who ignore population growth "deniers" ... ?

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    Account Closed Rufasuve's Avatar
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    Awesome to see people taking environmental issues seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    Bob, I will ask you once again - how can a human caused climate change model simply ignore the exponential population growth already referenced in this thread?

    You continue to avoid this simple question. Does that make people who ignore population growth "deniers" ... ?
    I think perhaps you misunderstand. I'm not avoiding it at all, and I don't think anyone else is either. I haven't specifically addressed it because it's not something that can be changed in the short term in the same way as other factors can be addressed. It's simply one of many factors to consider when tackling the overall link between human activity and climate change. We haven't really spoken of specific factors in this conversation, only the overall need to act upon the problem rather than deny it exists.

    Let me clarify. Climate change is accelerated by human activity, and thus it follows that the more people you have, the more resources are required, and the more emissions produced (although one could say too many emissions was the source of that population growth in the first place!!)

    Back to serious mode. Too many people is not something we can easily resolve, short of mass culling which might be unpopular. Applying the Chinese solution hasn't worked, and I have heard of no short term options to reduce the number of humans on the planet. We collectively only have so much time and energy to devote to the global warming problem, and so it makes sense to tackle those things which can reasonably be addressed in the short to medium term. That's not ignoring your point - it's simply prioritising the various solutions.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufasuve View Post
    Awesome to see people taking environmental issues seriously.
    Don't be afraid to offer more opinion here then.

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    Bob, you misunderstand. It's not you failing to address the issue of exponential population growth, it is the HCC model's failure to address it. None of its vociferous proponents ever seem to mention it as a causative factor, nor birth control, nor associated topics.

    Seems strange ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    Bob, you misunderstand. It's not you failing to address the issue of exponential population growth, it is the HCC model's failure to address it. None of its vociferous proponents ever seem to mention it as a causative factor, nor birth control, nor associated topics.

    Seems strange ...
    So, in your opinion, what should be happening with regard to over population?

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    At the very, very least MENTION IT !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    At the very, very least MENTION IT !!
    Consider it mentioned. Not sure what that achieves though.

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    Not you, Bob!! The idiots who mention just about everything from cows belching and the like.

    Everything EXCEPT the fact that the world's population has nearly quadrupled in about 100 years. I wonder what might cause that ... ?

    AND what effect that might have on our planet ... .
    Last edited by John King; 01-10-2019 at 3:41pm.

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    I'm not sure that there's a whole lot of point in focusing on that really. To me, it's just not something that we can factor into our response to climate change. The fact that we are calling it "human induced" illustrates that the human factor is already recognised as the core of the problem. Realistically there's not a whole lot we can do about burgeoning populations anyway.

    It comes back to the KISS principle. Focus on the fundamental issues that we can actually do something about. Unless you have a plan to stop the bonk, what can you possibly gain by isolating this as an issue? It just becomes a rather pointless diversion.

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    So.

    Ignore the cause, then try to solve the problem ... .

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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    So.

    Ignore the cause, then try to solve the problem ... .
    Still waiting for your solution. If the world is ignoring the cause, then what should it be doing? One might as well complain about gravity being inconveniently strong.

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    Bob, re-read this thread. I have.

    In order to solve any problem, one needs to functionally decompose it, then address each of its component parts.

    Any other approach is doomed from the beginning. Just leads to religion like mantras and behaviours that achieve little, or nothing. In fact, just what's happening. Lots of pious noise, with little real analysis, or effective solutions ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    In order to solve any problem, one needs to functionally decompose it, then address each of its component parts.
    So .... concentrating on just one component part - i.e too many people - what, in a nutshell do you propose we do about that right now ?

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    What can we do about it right now? - Abso-fa-lutely nuffing! (One shouldn't drop one's gees )

    -- Oh, hang on... - we could suddenly become extinct

    Anyway, the problem in Sydney is a tick outbreak. The authoritative Channel 7 News reports that
    [these insects are dangerous] Now doesn't that just add to Goofball Warnings?
    Last edited by ameerat42; 01-10-2019 at 6:15pm.
    CC, Image editing OK.

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    You are the one postulating a problem, Bob ...

    Where are YOUR solutions? A Nissan Leaf that needs a new filthy battery after only 89,000 kms, at a cost of $33,000 plus the environmental cost of disposing of the dead battery? $33,000 to make a $53,000 car functional, when it has a market value of maybe $10-12,000 - with the new battery! Throw away cars. How sensible is that ...

    [Edit] Just watching Prince Harry saying EXACTLY what I have said throughout this thread "We are the problem", he stated about three times ... [end edit].
    Last edited by John King; 01-10-2019 at 6:16pm.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    You are the one postulating a problem, Bob ...

    Where are YOUR solutions? A Nissan Leaf that needs a new filthy battery after only 89,000 kms, at a cost of $33,000 plus the environmental cost of disposing of the dead battery?
    A very quick search turned this up and a small quote from it "The warranty on the new battery is the same as it is in a brand new LEAF — 8 years/100,000 miles" https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/04...ill-cost-5499/

    Just show we can probably find something somewhere on the interweb to reinforce whatever we want.
    Last edited by Mark L; 01-10-2019 at 6:36pm.

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    In Australia, the warranty was 7 years. No mileage ...

    I think Karal Leach at Nissan is the person to talk to ...

    https://youtu.be/L_zdtaJeYmw
    Last edited by John King; 01-10-2019 at 6:42pm. Reason: Added link

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    In Australia, the warranty was 7 years. No mileage ...

    I think Karal Leach at Nissan is the person to talk to ...
    So a link to what Karla says? I'm pretty sure she won't take a phone call from me to have a chat.

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