Editing Workflow Plan - Assistance Required

[Snooks]

@AK83

I think my problems are that I know what I want to do but get lost doing them. The names of features are not what I expect or want them to be. I just get confused and carppy on both GIOMP and PS when I had that a very long time ago.

I downloaded the NIkon software. One of them was only a viewer and no good for me at all. That is the one I had twice previously but the software is not for what I need anyway.

They other one I have retained and yes, you do WB and the basics first and then convert to TIFF for the finishing in GIMP so it should be ok once I get accustomed. But I still have to seriously address my lack of skills in GIMP.

My PC is a desktop, think its 3.2 Dual Core with a 1TB Hard Disc. I run 8G of RAM but really would like 16G. I normally work in Firefox so I can used some addons I have used for many years.

I think that any issues at my end are MY issues and not the tools. I just need practise, which I am doing and having fun doing so..... it's just a very big learning curve. But I am getting there and will get there ! Just not as fast as I would like (lol).

Cheers.

[ameerat42]

I went mad and located some interesting free sample NEFs to practise using Capture NXD.
A bit of mucking around and I should be okay with it.

Just saw that the particular shot was done using Adobe RGB and I was wondering how to save
it using sRGB in the raw converter. At present I tell P'shop to ignore or convert it to sRGB.

- - - Updated - - -

I was answering AK's post and then saw Snooks'. You are right, Snooks, about the learning curve.

You're new to photography, but I guess newer to image editing (even though you have shown a
good bit of prowess here). So I guess you will have to ask as you go along. After a while it'll start
to hang together more.

Anyway, this addition to the post is to reinforce the idea of sticking with Capture NXD.

[arthurking83]

....

I downloaded the NIkon software. One of them was only a viewer and no good for me at all. That is the one I had twice previously but the software is not for what I need anyway.

.....

"Only a viewer" .. dunno this one(maybe I do, but have avoided it).

Remember the names: (and in order of preference for use)

ViewNX2 in terms of Nikon software, #1.
I've done some how to's on using Capture NX2 and ViewNX2 somewhere around here.

CaptureNX-D in terms of Nikon software, pretty crappy, but handy to have. The very latest version(v1.15.) is the only one that that's worth the effort.
The reason for this is the return of colour control point editing.

ViewNX-i, in terms of software from any vendor, crappy and should be made illegal! (hence why I didn't provide the download link).

.... The names of features are not what I expect or want them to be. I just get confused and carppy on both GIOMP and PS when I had that a very long time ago.

....

Makes perfectly good sense, and the reason for your accurate assessment is that they are totally different types of programs.
GIMP and Ps are pixel generators .. ie. you can make an image out of nothing other than lots of patience and an idea using those two programs.

ViewNX2(and CNX-D) are raw converter programs. They specialise in one thing only, which is to convert a non image file(NEF) into an image file(more generally usable), which will be jpg or tif.
Using Ps or GIMP, you can't directly open a raw file(maybe DNG in Ps, but even that I think needs a raw converter too!).
By the same token you can't save an edited image in GIMP or Ps, into a raw file.

CNX-D(and CaptureNX2) are a little GIMP/Ps style in that they can edit pixels too, but more accurately they edit raw data on an NEF file. You then still need to convert it to an image file.

The issue with your quoted text is simply familiarity. Been there, done that. We're not born with the ability to use software out of the box, just as with anything else in life.
Took me far longer to realise I had no hope of ever learning to use Ps in my lifetime, so chose CaptureNX2 as my editor of choice. I like the 'babysteps' method of using colour control points.
Fumbled around lots at first(learning curve), making massive mistakes, but all easily and non destructively undoable.
Over time, it became natural to do.

[Snooks]

Hi AK83

"Only a viewer" .. dunno this one(maybe I do, but have avoided it).

I may have been confused with the one that I thought was only a viewer. But I know that both did not do what i expected, which was pretty much to be an editor like Gimp, Paint etc. I mean, you cant even rotate an image.

It was my fault and totally because i expected something it was not designed to do. I use the ViewNX2 to edit raw files for colour, saturation etc and then when its acceptable for needs i change to .tiff as advised by the forum and take that into Gimp.

So I think we have a happy compromise. Thanks for confirming all that, like i said, i probably explained it incorrectly.

Cheers

[ameerat42]

Snooks. That's what I do with my Σ files - as much as possible for tones and colours in Sigma Photo Pro,
then the rest as you describe in Photoshop (or GIMP if you have that).

Although the likes of Adobe Lightroom let you do more - possibly as much as as Capture NXD - both these
sometimes require you to save as something and use something else.

[arthurking83]

.... I use the ViewNX2 to edit raw files for colour, saturation etc and then when its acceptable for needs i change to .tiff as advised by the forum and take that into Gimp.

....

Now! be mindful that even tho you have a 1Tb drive, and it may seem like a lot(which it is), and your workflow is pretty much ideal * ... it's not without some issues.
Tif files are huge, and 1Tb with that workflow over the course of a few thousand images may end up coming unstuck. This won't be a problem now, but will be in the future.
nor I or yourself could define a certain date deadline, as your time and commitment to capturing images will change over time.

eg. say you shoot 10K images this year, don't assume you will do the same next year, it most likely will be more, could easily be less.
But 1Tb on the basis of using a D200 I'd guess that around 50K images using that workflow method should be your upper limit, and you should be considering more space, and or more effective image management and storage.
If you happen to add a new camera body into your system, and it has a larger Mp count, then this would reduce that 50K raw file count above.

I'm assuming that this 1Tb drive is the only drive in the desktop?, so allowances need to be made for all other PC operations AND to never fill a drive. My self enforced upper limit for a spinning drive(ie. non SSD) is 80% capacity.
So, at some point, you may start thinking that additional HDDs may be required to separate image files from all other PC data.
I do this on two separate drives on my PC, one for current year images(SSD) and also one remote USB drive with all my images.
If you value your images(and I'd reckon that at some point in the future you WILL end up valuing them more than you do now!) you probably want a backup of your image store too.

* I used the term "pretty much ideal" earlier as for most intents and purposes in terms of quality, that workflow is ideal. But! it's wasteful of HDD space.
Even tho the saying is that storage is cheap(ie. just get bigger drives) I still think that point of view is the wrong way to approach the issue. Having a more efficient storage system is a better way to manage storage space.

So, while tif is a good quality format(and I used it too early on), the reason you want it for now, is that your experience level is 'beginner'. That is, you're still finding your photographic feet. You don't yet know, what you probably want out of an image. Experience is that you don't know how to get to that point with the editing ... yet. It'll all come .. the more you do, the easier it will come. (as I said earlier in the thread .. been there cone that, and I reckon most everyone has).
So as your experience in editing increases(you probably won't even realise that it's increasing), at some point you may go back to your earliest images and think to yourself .. "what tha!!" .. was I thinking when I edited that.
This is why the 'quality' workflow may be important. You may want to go back over your early images and re do them. You won't need to ask how I know this.

So you want the quality(for posterity) but maintain that quality will have it's drawbacks(in terms of HDD space).
So in the long run, tif will be the wrong format to use!

This is what I did way back. I don't edit jpgs(I delete them where I find them on my PC). I can't just wholesale delete them all off my PC, as I have many images in that format only, so have to be weary of what I delete, but as I sift through my images and I find old jpgs of raw files I have, they get deleted. jpg is only useful just to display them to those folks you feel the need too(ie. here and or friends, etc.)

So my editing format is NEF. I do the occasional tif(very rarely) say if I'm doing a panorama, but if Nikon software created panoramas and maintaining the NEF format, I'd use NEF for that too.
But in terms of space.
You have 10-12Mb NEF files, convert that to a tiff, and it becomes a 40-ish Mb tiff. The issue is, you don't(EVER) want to delete the 'keeper' NEF files. These are your 'life savings'. You delete the edited tiff files and jpg files.
You can always remake them if needed, but you can never remake an NEF file you've deleted.
So keeping the NEF and keeping the tif then gives you the problem that the original 10-12Mb NEF's storage space will become more like 50-ish Mb if you keep the edited tif file too.
deleting the edited tif file, means you no longer have the high quality edited file. so if at any point in the future you want to remake that file again, you need to re edit the NEF all over again.

Why I recommend using Nikon's software! In saying that, you don't get 'real' cloning, and you can't add other skies into other foregrounds. ie. it's not a pixel making editor, it's a photo tweaking editor.
That is, Nikon's software in a sense forces you to shoot the image as well as you can 'in camera'(or close to it). Some aspects of physics you just can't defy, like dynamic range, and stuff like that. So almost all images need some kind of tweaking.

This is why I suggested to 'stick with' the horrible CaptureNX-D too. This software is more intricate than ViewNX2.
CNX-D won't do sky changes, or clone out stuff in an image(it's cloning is limited to removing dust spots, and it's bad at that simple job too! ), but it allows brightening just the flower and not the background, or the cocky and not the forground .. etc. (ie. localised editing).
But, remember it's a photographers editor, not a pixel making editor.

Theres a benefit of editing the NEF file too, and it's non destructive, so you may read inane comments from those that don't know, that "you should never edit the original raw file" ignore those comments. Those folks don't know.
Anyhow, the benefit of edting the NEF file in Nikon's software is that you don't need 4 x larger tif files. You only have those 10-12Mb NEF files to store.
Put another way:
That 1Tb drive in your PC, you should really try not to use more than about half that space for images. Assuming it's the only drive of course. PC needs space for other things too!.
SO lets assume you limit the 1Tb to 500Gb, with the 'tif file workflow' this gives you about 10K images (500Gb divided by 50Mb total storage per image).
Just using the NEF file editing method tho, that 500Gb allows you 50K images.
All numbers are approximate, just to give you a heads up on how storage can be 'problematic'

Imagine, or do the actual sums) on how many images you reckon you may shoot per year.
I used to shoot about 10-15K per year, keep about 10K, did that for a good 10 years .. I was out'n'about basically every day, one of life's advantages with the work I used to do.
That all changed, but the point is still the same.
Say you shot 10K images per year: you'd need to update that 1Tb drive to another one, or a larger one, basically every couple of years if you used this 'tif file editing method'.
If you used the NEF file editing method, you probably wouldn't need a larger than 1Tb drive for close to 10 years.

Guess what I worked out was the best way to edit my images about 10 years ago!

Also note, I have cheated a bit too: I do use CNX-D a little here and there, and it bugs the bejeesuz out of me. I primarily use Capture NX2, which is more like GIMP/Ps, but still not a 'pixel editor'.
It's advantage is that it works a lot better, and has some(very few) additional fancy features over CNX-D.
You can't get NCX2 any longer(it's discontinued).
When I get a new camera(model), I won't be able to use CNX2 with those files again, I HAVE to switch to CNX-D at some point.

Funny thing! .. I have about 20+ Tb of total storage capacity at my disposal(10+ if I do redundancy), and am currently at about 2-3Tb, so I got nothing to worry about. But still contemplate the future.

[ameerat42]

Now! be mindful that even tho you have a 1Tb drive, and it may seem like a lot(which it is), and your workflow is pretty much ideal * ... it's not without some issues.
...

I'm assuming that this 1Tb drive is the only drive in the desktop?, so allowances need to be made for all other PC operations AND to never fill a drive. My self enforced upper limit for a spinning drive(ie. non SSD) is 80% capacity...

So, at some point, you may start thinking that additional HDDs may be required to separate image files from all other PC data...
If you value your images(and I'd reckon that at some point in the future you WILL end up valuing them more than you do now!) you probably want a backup of your image store too.
...

Snooks. AK makes some valid points above, which you should re-/read a few times.
On the issue of storage I have isolated some of his points and will add my own.

For people who do photography - and not excluding those who generate lots of data from their pursuits - the idea
of a single physical drive in a computer, even if it is partitioned into other drives, can become risky for maintaining
that data.

In other words: you need a backup system!
This can be simple and modest in cost, like an external HDD to which you regularly copy your files; or elaborate,
like a RAID array.

The reasons you need a backup system:
1) As a single drive containing both OS and data files become filled, operations slow down. And, it is my
opinion that the bigger the drive, the slower it gets.
2) If the single drive fails, your data will be lost at worst, or very expensive to retrieve if it can be.
3) Portability.

Data loss stings! - It is something like being robbed - but worse, by yourself

What you need to back up:
1) Your original images (obviously the ones you don't delete straight away) such as raws or SOOC jpegs.
2) The final worked versions of these images.

Example of a simple backup system (as I use):
- At any one time, a single 1TB external HDD (ie, a spinning disk type, not an SSD).
- This is connected to the computer via USB3 - all recent USB drives are USB3. If your computer has a USB3
port, you will typically get read rates of 100MB(ytes, not bits) per second.
- Finally, files go onto this as "Original raw + final full-size jpeg". The names I use are just the original image name from the
camera, like SDIM3456... An occasional a, b, c or other short descriptor might feature. The containing folder is typically named
with the date and subject. Intermediate, small sized versions for posting here are usually kept somewhere else until posted.

...And finally, those folders will get copied onto yet another like drive. After that, if the world ends, too bad!

Typical cheap external > 1 TB < HDDs:
WD Passport or Elements (~$100 or $70)
Toshiba Canvio ($69)
(Other brands like Seagate)

My reliability experience: WD Passport OK but failed eventually; Elements still going; Toshiba Canvio (several) still going after years!
Seagate: though not external but full size internal, all failed with data loss, so I nevva! get them anymore.

These are available from the likes of JB HiFi and Officeworks.

My advice: Go to Officeworks and get yourself 1 or 2 1TB (not 2TB) of the Toshiba Canvio drives for $69 - NOT the slightly dearer
ones with some unnecessary backup software that takes up space anyway.

The thing, is it does me.

[John King]

Snooks, I cannot agree too strongly with the practical advice from Am.

Having too much backup is like having too many friends, or too much good health ...

I have an OS drive (SSD), 2x 3TB and 1x 2B internal HDDs (plus another smaller internal HDD that has an image of my OS drive on it - SSDs usually fail catastrophically, with no warning and no hope of recovery).

For external HDDs, I have 1x 2TB external, 1x 3TB external, and 1x 1TB portable plus 1x 2TB portable. The latter lives in my camera bag, and contains not only all my image files, but also all document, accounting and email data files as well.

HDDs are cheap. Data is usually irreplaceable ...

[Snooks]

I agree totally with the comments about backups being essential. At the moment I don't really have many (any) photos that I would be upset to lose, only a few which are backed up onto flikr.

I do actually dabble in building websites, having originally owned the largest Darts Shop (online) in the country, but I sold that a few years back when I was ill. I still own a couple of websites and build a few here and there for people and as such, have learnt the hard way how vital backups are.

My server has secure storage space and plenty of room so I will end up putting a partition in there totally for safe storage of images and then just run a cron job every night to backup all files. That way I can't forget

But thank you for taking the time to mention these very important points.