Nikon : D850 : teaser : 8K timelapse?

[Cage]

Knowing Nikon .. they'll work out a way to stuff something that should be simple to do.....

......With new shutter & new sensor, there's bound to be an issue somewhere.

“While Nikon contracts with a silicon foundry to actually manufacture the chips, Nikon confirmed that the D850’s sensor is entirely their own design,”

Oh dear, Arthur.

The D850 sounds like the bees knees, but I wouldn't even contemplate buying one for at least twelve months, even if I did have the readies.

[arthurking83]

.... but I wouldn't even contemplate buying one for at least twelve months ....

This is inline with my thinking too... 6-12months.
Wait for issues to be resolved, and price drop to a sane level.

[swifty]

Got to play with a pre-production unit yesterday, albeit only for a short time. Unfortunately the peaking function wasn't working properly on the demo unit but everything else felt very good, especially the new finder.
And after using the AF joystick, I don't think I can buy a new camera without one.
But there was also a D5 on show. To my surprise, despite the larger overall size, the grip of the D5 was even better than the D850 for my hands.
Actually that was probably the only disappointment and it only applies to me but the grip shape didn't fit my hand as nicely as my D700 nor the D5, as mentioned. But it was only a 5min play and it could just be me being too used to my D700.

[MissionMan]

Got to play with a pre-production unit yesterday, albeit only for a short time. Unfortunately the peaking function wasn't working properly on the demo unit but everything else felt very good, especially the new finder.
And after using the AF joystick, I don't think I can buy a new camera without one.
But there was also a D5 on show. To my surprise, despite the larger overall size, the grip of the D5 was even better than the D850 for my hands.
Actually that was probably the only disappointment and it only applies to me but the grip shape didn't fit my hand as nicely as my D700 nor the D5, as mentioned. But it was only a 5min play and it could just be me being too used to my D700.

I agree. I got one on my X-T2 and as a result, I'll be trading in my X100T for an X100F just to get the joystick. Makes a huge difference.

[swifty]

I agree. I got one on my X-T2 and as a result, I'll be trading in my X100T for an X100F just to get the joystick. Makes a huge difference.

Yea, I didn't think that small change in ergonomics would help that much but I guess it suited me because I'm constantly shifting AF points on my direction control pad and never let the camera choose the starting point.
Still need more play with the grip. That might be the decider for me.

[MissionMan]

Yea, I didn't think that small change in ergonomics would help that much but I guess it suited me because I'm constantly shifting AF points on my direction control pad and never let the camera choose the starting point.
Still need more play with the grip. That might be the decider for me.

Fuji has a nice implementation of the joystick. If you push it in (like a button), it then brings up the AF zone/point size so you can use the scroll wheel to make it bigger or smaller.

[swifty]

Fuji has a nice implementation of the joystick. If you push it in (like a button), it then brings up the AF zone/point size so you can use the scroll wheel to make it bigger or smaller.

The joystick was also a button but I don't know what options are available to assign it. My play with the D850 was quite short unfortunately.
Btw for clarity sake, I only played with the D850 but got to actually shoot motorcross at the event with a D5 and I'm extrapolating my AF joystick shooting experience from the D5. Without actually shooting a real life scenario, I might have overlooked how well suited it is for my style of shooting.

[MissionMan]

The joystick was also a button but I don't know what options are available to assign it. My play with the D850 was quite short unfortunately.
Btw for clarity sake, I only played with the D850 but got to actually shoot motorcross at the event with a D5 and I'm extrapolating my AF joystick shooting experience from the D5. Without actually shooting a real life scenario, I might have overlooked how well suited it is for my style of shooting.

As mentioned, having shot with a joystick, I find it hard to shoot with a non-joystick camera. It makes a huge difference. It will be interesting to see what they incorporate with the Joystick.

On a humorous note, someone suggested that the reason the launch price is high is that they have to incorporate the cost of parts and shipping for product recalls

[Cage]

If you are a My Nikon Life member you can have a play with it in Sydney on Sept 7.

I reckon we'll see some shots on here shortly after, possibly in the 'Bird' forum.

[I @ M]

If you are a My Nikon Life member you can have a play with it in Sydney on Sept 7.

I got that email around midday today like many others.
Purely out of idle curiosity I clicked the "reserve a place" button around 1:00 pm to see that all sessions were "sold out".

Maybe a viagogo bot snapped them up and they are now on sale -----------

[arthurking83]

.....
Purely out of idle curiosity I clicked the "reserve a place" button around 1:00 pm to see that all sessions were "sold out".

......

Nikon recently released an apology due to the quick (pre)sellout of the D850 worldwide .. which obviously means someone(or viagogo! ) have all placed their names in the hat to prepurchase D850.

I'm assuming that blind consumerism is as strong as ever, and contrary to the majority of opinions in the photographic world, Nikon aren't being abandoned by all and sundry in the photographic community who have all moved into mirrorless pastures!

And!!... I like buying stuff as much as the next guy(or girl) .. but I can never understand the notion of buying a product sight unseen ... no idea how, or if, it works.

[Cage]

Nikon recently released an apology due to the quick (pre)sellout of the D850 worldwide .. which obviously means someone(or viagogo! ) have all placed their names in the hat to prepurchase D850.

I'm assuming that blind consumerism is as strong as ever, and contrary to the majority of opinions in the photographic world, Nikon aren't being abandoned by all and sundry in the photographic community who have all moved into mirrorless pastures!

And!!... I like buying stuff as much as the next guy(or girl) .. but I can never understand the notion of buying a product sight unseen ... no idea how, or if, it works.

Arthur, their track record hasn't been real flash of late with new FF releases.

D800 Auto-focus problems..... (I had one with no problems)
D600 Oil spots from shutter..... (I had one with oil splatter)
D810 Thermal issues with long exposures..... (Firmware update and return to Nikon for a fix)
D750 Shutter problems..... (Return to Nikon for fix)

That's pretty much all new Full Frame releases.

OTOH, my D7200 is performing beautifully.

[MissionMan]

Nikon recently released an apology due to the quick (pre)sellout of the D850 worldwide .. which obviously means someone(or viagogo! ) have all placed their names in the hat to prepurchase D850.

I'm assuming that blind consumerism is as strong as ever, and contrary to the majority of opinions in the photographic world, Nikon aren't being abandoned by all and sundry in the photographic community who have all moved into mirrorless pastures!

And!!... I like buying stuff as much as the next guy(or girl) .. but I can never understand the notion of buying a product sight unseen ... no idea how, or if, it works.

I would disagree. I don’t think the $5000 camera’s is where Nikon is losing market share. It’s the entry level full frame (D600/D700 series) and APSC DSLR market.

[Steve Axford]

Not following Nikon very closely, I am unaware of how quickly Nikon are likely to get on top of their orders for the 850. I know that it is always a choice for vendors - to release early and wait for supply and early release problems to catch up, or wait till all problems are resolved and supply is available.
The first strategy runs the risk of upsetting customers who are left waiting in line for an unreasonably long time, or who run into major problems with a buggy product. On the other hand you get the potential marketing coup by having a (hopefully) leading product out there as quickly as possible.
The second strategy is more conservative and misses the potential marketing advantages in return for smooth sailing with customers. Often, the market leader will go for this option because a) they can, and b) they have the biggest customer base and therefore the most to lose if they upset current customers.
The camera market is interesting in that the current market leader (in sales) seems to be under significant pressure in technology and it is hard to see how they can catch up, at least in the short term. Perhaps they (Canon) have decided to focus on lenses and hope that customers will forgive them their back-level cameras. Sony are potentially the technology leader, but we'll have to wait and see if they can actually deliver on that potential with their next camera.
All told, I think the success of the 850 will depend on how well Nikon the provide for the demand relatively fault free. If they can do that, then they are likely to have a winner.

[jim]

I think recent history would suggest that they are likely to have a winner even if they totally stuff all that up, Steve. We're a forgiving lot we Nikon users. (Plus the cameras tend to be pretty good once all the problems are finally sorted out)

[Cage]

Nikon recently released an apology due to the quick (pre)sellout of the D850 worldwide .. which obviously means someone(or viagogo! ) have all placed their names in the hat to prepurchase D850.

It will be interesting to see whether anybody at all actually gets one of the pre-release orders.

Cynical I know, but a great way to create interest and artificial demand.

[Steve Axford]

I think recent history would suggest that they are likely to have a winner even if they totally stuff all that up, Steve. We're a forgiving lot we Nikon users. (Plus the cameras tend to be pretty good once all the problems are finally sorted out)

I suspect that you are right, but there is some turnover, even if it's only old users dying and new users coming onto the market. Some users really do switch brands, but that is rare as it is a big move. There may also be a hidden effect where loyal users become disillusioned and therefore buy less voraciously than they would have otherwise. We've all seen how the cashed up photographers feel they have to have the "best" camera out there, even if they only ever post on instagram. Profit is profit and no vendor cares much if the profit is made from a true expert or a no-hoper (except where true expert sales promote sales to no-hopers)
I think most Nikon users will be happy in the knowledge that Nikon can probably claim the best still camera crown for a little while, even if they have no intention of buying one.

[arthurking83]

I would disagree. I don’t think the $5000 camera’s is where Nikon is losing market share. It’s the entry level full frame (D600/D700 series) and APSC DSLR market.

Yes, but! .. if you believe all the chatter from the internet experts, apparently Nikon need a full frame mirrorless due to losing market share in that area!
This was the major gist of comments made after the release(s) of the A7ii and A9 ... they were supposed to be the downfall of Nikon's camera business. When the likes of Sony's A6300/6500 series, or Fuji's or Olympuses cameras come to market, there's not so much Nikoncentric negativity.
These Nikon doomsayers all come out of the woodwork when upper end cameras are revealed, and when Nikon push out the same old same old DSLR tech over and over(ie. D5, D500, D810, Df .. etc).

If you look at the CIPA data(randomly chose the last data figures for the last month reported) ... lower end or cheaper DSLRs sold over the previous month(Jun) and period(Jan-Jun) whereas much higher end or more expensive mirrorless cameras were being bought.
The data for DSLRs is most likely due to discounting or rebates (or whatever) rather than purely lower end DSLRs being sold.

The way I'm reading it using random models types as examples: if Nikon use to sell about 500K D3300s and now only sell 350K D3400s, if there was a huge amount of leakage to mirrorless (of those lost 150K sales), then the currency value of mirrorless wouldn't have increased by as much as it did in that period.
So the summary on the mirrorless front would be something like Sony's A7s, Fujis XT and XPro type bodies ... and even Olympuses higher end EM1s may be increasing in volume by a little bit each which is dragging the value of mirrorless product sales higher.

Obviously Nikon's D610 and D750 would be down in terms of volumes by now, considering they are dinosaurs in camera tech terms .. respectively about 3 or 4 years old now. A refresh of those two models would kickstart that segments unit sales.
I don't think those types of products are the issue, they are considered high value products by Nikon, looking to get D5600 customers to consider the D610 as an alternative.

Another aspect to note about the currency value of cameras quoted in CIPA data is that it's in Yen. And the Yen fluctuates in value. So if there are a lot of older models(eg. D610/D750) still being made, and being discounted it will distort the figures a little too.

I don't doubt that the D850 will be a sales success for Nikon. I think there will be higher volumes of D850 sales, then there were of the D810. D810 was an update, for me the only reason to update would have been for the EFC sensor tech, but then reading about it's limitations it was never going to be an actual proposition for me(and I guess a few more like minded me's out there!) .. too many $s for not enough features(or updates).
D850 tho changes that .. for me the potentially much better viewfinder(my #1 reason for an upgrade), EFC(if it works better than many have commented) .. focus peaking in Lv mode(could be handy for macro), more pixels(hoping for better high ISO and dynamic range) .. etc.

I need real reasons to upgrade .. I'm not a fan of updating just because there's a new model.
And on every discussion board I've viewed that comments on the D850, there are 3 posts from folks explaining they're all going to wait till the problems are sorted out, for every post from the habitual updaters!

Apart from my D800E imploding at the regularly used 10 pin accessory port, I also had the annoying Nikon battery issue with my D800E too, early on. I eventually got back to the store when I had something else to purchase, and got it changed(obviously for free).
True to Nikon form, the replacement battery did exactly the same thing(reporting no life left in it and not really having as much reserve as it really should .. but the age of the battery reporting as 'dead' is the real annoyance).
I can't be stuffed with annoying silliness like that, and I have no doubt that's it's due to Nikons insistence that we all bow to their battery making excellence!! (<-note the sarcasm there!!) and they try to corner that market using inept camera firmware coding to restrict the use of non Nikon batteries!
It was easier for that debacle to be solved with the acquisition of 'coded' thirdparty batteries .. rather than muck about with Nikon's useless batteries.

The gigantic issue with the camera business overall is not the types of cameras sold today as interchangeable lens cameras, but the complete collapse of the once insane compact cameras(where Nikon would have had a strong presence).
Nikon made and sold more cameras (not much but just a small increase of ILCs) last (half) year.
With the D850 and replacements for the D6xx/7xx and Df that shoudl be coming in the next 6 months or so .. I think the hype they'll get may help sales a little more again .. just as the continuous stream of new mirrorless products helps that market grow slowly.

[MissionMan]

Yes, but! .. if you believe all the chatter from the internet experts, apparently Nikon need a full frame mirrorless due to losing market share in that area!
This was the major gist of comments made after the release(s) of the A7ii and A9 ... they were supposed to be the downfall of Nikon's camera business. When the likes of Sony's A6300/6500 series, or Fuji's or Olympuses cameras come to market, there's not so much Nikoncentric negativity.
These Nikon doomsayers all come out of the woodwork when upper end cameras are revealed, and when Nikon push out the same old same old DSLR tech over and over(ie. D5, D500, D810, Df .. etc).

If you look at the CIPA data(randomly chose the last data figures for the last month reported) ... lower end or cheaper DSLRs sold over the previous month(Jun) and period(Jan-Jun) whereas much higher end or more expensive mirrorless cameras were being bought.
The data for DSLRs is most likely due to discounting or rebates (or whatever) rather than purely lower end DSLRs being sold.

The way I'm reading it using random models types as examples: if Nikon use to sell about 500K D3300s and now only sell 350K D3400s, if there was a huge amount of leakage to mirrorless (of those lost 150K sales), then the currency value of mirrorless wouldn't have increased by as much as it did in that period.
So the summary on the mirrorless front would be something like Sony's A7s, Fujis XT and XPro type bodies ... and even Olympuses higher end EM1s may be increasing in volume by a little bit each which is dragging the value of mirrorless product sales higher.

Obviously Nikon's D610 and D750 would be down in terms of volumes by now, considering they are dinosaurs in camera tech terms .. respectively about 3 or 4 years old now. A refresh of those two models would kickstart that segments unit sales.
I don't think those types of products are the issue, they are considered high value products by Nikon, looking to get D5600 customers to consider the D610 as an alternative.

Another aspect to note about the currency value of cameras quoted in CIPA data is that it's in Yen. And the Yen fluctuates in value. So if there are a lot of older models(eg. D610/D750) still being made, and being discounted it will distort the figures a little too.

I don't doubt that the D850 will be a sales success for Nikon. I think there will be higher volumes of D850 sales, then there were of the D810. D810 was an update, for me the only reason to update would have been for the EFC sensor tech, but then reading about it's limitations it was never going to be an actual proposition for me(and I guess a few more like minded me's out there!) .. too many $s for not enough features(or updates).
D850 tho changes that .. for me the potentially much better viewfinder(my #1 reason for an upgrade), EFC(if it works better than many have commented) .. focus peaking in Lv mode(could be handy for macro), more pixels(hoping for better high ISO and dynamic range) .. etc.

I need real reasons to upgrade .. I'm not a fan of updating just because there's a new model.
And on every discussion board I've viewed that comments on the D850, there are 3 posts from folks explaining they're all going to wait till the problems are sorted out, for every post from the habitual updaters!

Apart from my D800E imploding at the regularly used 10 pin accessory port, I also had the annoying Nikon battery issue with my D800E too, early on. I eventually got back to the store when I had something else to purchase, and got it changed(obviously for free).
True to Nikon form, the replacement battery did exactly the same thing(reporting no life left in it and not really having as much reserve as it really should .. but the age of the battery reporting as 'dead' is the real annoyance).
I can't be stuffed with annoying silliness like that, and I have no doubt that's it's due to Nikons insistence that we all bow to their battery making excellence!! (<-note the sarcasm there!!) and they try to corner that market using inept camera firmware coding to restrict the use of non Nikon batteries!
It was easier for that debacle to be solved with the acquisition of 'coded' thirdparty batteries .. rather than muck about with Nikon's useless batteries.

The gigantic issue with the camera business overall is not the types of cameras sold today as interchangeable lens cameras, but the complete collapse of the once insane compact cameras(where Nikon would have had a strong presence).
Nikon made and sold more cameras (not much but just a small increase of ILCs) last (half) year.
With the D850 and replacements for the D6xx/7xx and Df that shoudl be coming in the next 6 months or so .. I think the hype they'll get may help sales a little more again .. just as the continuous stream of new mirrorless products helps that market grow slowly.

The internet chatter is 100% correct. The internet chatter is saying they need a full frame mirrorless. It’s not saying they only need a full frame mirrorless or that Nikon should stop producing DSLR’s, it’s simply saying there is a big portion of their market they are losing.

The last set of Fuji survey results I saw showed that 30% of Fuji buyers are coming from Nikon and Canon full frame.

[arthurking83]

The internet chatter is 100% correct. The internet chatter is saying they need a full frame mirrorless. It’s not saying they only need a full frame mirrorless or that Nikon should stop producing DSLR’s, it’s simply saying there is a big portion of their market they are losing.

The last set of Fuji survey results I saw showed that 30% of Fuji buyers are coming from Nikon and Canon full frame.

So Nikon and Canon full frame users are switching to Fuji's PS-C format?
Problem with surveys are that they're usually filled in by 12-15 year olds with the time to do so .. real users have little time for such trivia!

We know Nikon have lost a lot of sales in the camera department(all manufacturers have!), the vast majority of these lost sales have been in the compact market.
Nikon's DSLR sales in the last 6 months increased by 10K units(710K to 720K) and this is selling predominantly older models! ... and they 'NEED' a mirrorless model ?

I think that a very important point that these internet chatters forget is that Fuji buyers have to come from somewhere! That is, previously Fuji buyers didn't exist primarily because Fuji barely existed. Then Fuji started making 'different' products and those Fuji customers had to come from somewhere. Some from Nikon some from Canon, others from Pentax .. etc. Some may have even come fresh out of nowhere.
Same with Sony's quick ascension. For Sony it's been all in the mirrorless market, and a major contraction for them in the DSLR(SLT) category .. and the main reason they lost so many SLT sales is they dropped that market(only one model of the 10 they used to make).

That Nikon is going to make a mirrorless camera is now a given. They've stated this fact.
But in terms of sales, I don't think it'll cannibalise DLSR all that much, and I've got reservation that it'll be the huge success for them that the internet chatter is predicting(unless it maintains the F-mount)