Allianz Car Insurance

[Hamster]

People make mistakes every day and this was just one of them.

They do, and they also need to take responsibility for those mistakes.
While I feel for the OPs relatives, it's their mistake and unless they had specific "Insurance against leaving a running car unattended because I'm a bit of a scatterbrain like that" insurance, it's not Allianz's job to pick up the tab.
There are lots of exclusions in PDSs and people need to get familiar with them to ensure they know where they stand.
It's sounds like the OPs relatives are taking the right approach, this really is just an expensive, live and learn, take responsibility for your cock up and move on situation.

[bricat]

I would suggest that many many many insurance claims are the result of peoples lack of attention or even deliberate breaches of insurance company policies. Most "accidents" are caused by one driver doing the wrong thing; ie braking the law. Red lights, speeding, texting, not paying due care and attention etc etc. And the insurance companies pay out on these claims. We are all human and subject to our own flaws. Why I have even heard of parents leaving their babies in the car whilst they pop inside for a minute. Make your claim and don't take no for answer. The insurance companies have plenty of money and yes we all do pay a little more.
As a side note I see there is an add on tv for car insurance where they are going to insure only the safe drivers. Hahaha. We good drivers don't need insurance. cheers Brian
PS As soon as we have a major disaster, flood, cyclone insurance companies put up their premiums. This could occur in Australia or overseas. So we policy holders all pay even if it had nothing to do with us. Don't feel sorry for insurance companies.
PPS I do have insurance for many things so I am not anti insurance companies just in case you got that impression.

[davsv1]

I would suggest that many many many insurance claims are the result of peoples lack of attention or even deliberate breaches of insurance company policies. Most "accidents" are caused by one driver doing the wrong thing; ie braking the law. Red lights, speeding, texting, not paying due care and attention etc etc. And the insurance companies pay out on these claims.
PPS I do have insurance for many things so I am not anti insurance companies just in case you got that impression.

Most insurance companies can refuse to pay if you contribute to the claim by breaking the law ( d u i ) for example having an unroadworthy car ( bald tyre ) that contributes to the accident. They will pay the other person/ "innocent party" costs but not the "at fault" person, however if you are drunk and get hit by a red light runner ( for e.g. ) your insurance will still cover you because you were ( arguably ) not at fault even though you were breaking the law by driving whilst under the influence, they will pursue costs from the other insurance company.
Try forgetting to lock your house or close a window and see if your insurance covers you for burglary
I just had this conversation with my insurance agent recently.
Insurance is a very gray area subject to interpretations and ambiguous wording and that is why I pay an agent!

[ameerat42]

Just and aside talking about "accidents". Better to call them collisions, or incidents. An accident would be getting struck
by a meteorite or the like. Almost anything else that happens on the road is due to someone's fault. (Even if it's bad
maintenance due to someone else. That just exonerates the driver.)

[Hamster]

I would suggest that many many many insurance claims are the result of peoples lack of attention or even deliberate breaches of insurance company policies. Most "accidents" are caused by one driver doing the wrong thing; ie braking the law. Red lights, speeding, texting, not paying due care and attention etc etc. And the insurance companies pay out on these claims. We are all human and subject to our own flaws. Why I have even heard of parents leaving their babies in the car whilst they pop inside for a minute. Make your claim and don't take no for answer. The insurance companies have plenty of money and yes we all do pay a little more.
As a side note I see there is an add on tv for car insurance where they are going to insure only the safe drivers. Hahaha. We good drivers don't need insurance. cheers Brian
PS As soon as we have a major disaster, flood, cyclone insurance companies put up their premiums. This could occur in Australia or overseas. So we policy holders all pay even if it had nothing to do with us. Don't feel sorry for insurance companies.
PPS I do have insurance for many things so I am not anti insurance companies just in case you got that impression.

Oh believe me, I don't feel sorry for insurance companies, I have a very dim view of them. Hence my advice to know your PDS because that way you know your enemy. An insurance company will find any way to reduce its liability in the event of a claim, that is the business it is in. Of course their premiums go up after an event where they've had to pay out money, they're not charities. Your other examples of accidents may or may not be covered by the insurance and, as others have said, may be subject to some reduction in total pay out depending on how blame is apportioned. But that's irrelevant in this discussion because this is about someone leaving a running car unattended. Allianz cover this in their PDS by the statement

1. Prevention of loss or damage
   We may not pay your claim if you do not take allreasonable precautions to prevent injury, loss ordamage, including securing your vehicle againstunauthorised entry when it is unattended. Thisincludes removing your keys and locking the vehicleand ensuring all security and tracking devices areactive and maintained. It is a condition of this policythat your vehicle be kept in good repair.
   

Leaving a running car unattended is not taking all precautions and if the person who did it manages to persuade Allianz to pay up then I'd be very surprised (and the first to cheer), but good luck to them because lets face it, it was a dumb move. The simple fact is the person messed up and if they get nothing they should take the responsibility and, as I said, it seems like this is what has happened, which is a refreshing change in a society where everyone is always looking to find someone else to blame for their mistakes and give them the get out of jail free card. More responsibility would lead to more care.

[bricat]

I here what you are saying BUT insurance company PDS do not over rule the ombudsman. I would argue that "unattended" MAY be the avenue I would take.

Many years ago my son had paid his policy by mail and there was no record of receipt by the insurance company. Subsequently when his car was stolen his claim was rejected. My son claimed he had posted the renewal before the due date but somehow the mail was not received. He did not have a record of this payment via cheque butt etc. To cut a long story short the insurance company made an ex gratia payment of $9500. or thereabouts after the intervention of the ombudsman. The value of the car was about $12000. I am sure the PDS states we must receive the payment before the due date or the policy is null and void.


I must be getting old as a few years ago I would have agreed with your stance about taking responsibility for your actions or lack thereof. Everybody has different abilities and this crosses all situations from playing football to doing maths and unfortunately care and attention. I have a daughter who has ABI (acquired brain injury) and at times she acts and behaves like a 15 year old. She is 38. There are people in our society who are born like that or worse so yes we have to pay extra when these people get insurance and subsequently make a claim.

All I say to the OP is you have nothing to lose by taking action via the ombudsman. You MAY get an ex gratia payment. cheers Brian

[MissionMan]

I worked for an insurance company many years ago so I'll give you an idea how things work with the ombudsman and why your sons claim was paid.

If you claimed for an accident that occurred when your tyres were smooth, the insurance company would repudiate the claim based on the fact that your vehicle isn't roadworthy which they are legally entitled to do. If the claim is taken to the ombudsman, the first thing he will do is check what the weather was like (normally in the claim form). If it was wet, he will uphold the repudiation, if it's dry, he will request that the insurance company pay the claim because in dry weather, the smooth tyres had no impact on the cause of the accident. In the case of your son, the ombudsman may have argued that he would have continued his insurance based on his policy history.

In the case of the incident by the OP, there is a direct correlation between the incident and the cause. I.e. The fact that he left the keys in the car would have contributed to the cause of the incident and therefore the ombudsman is 99% likely to uphold it

[Hamster]

All I say to the OP is you have nothing to lose by taking action via the ombudsman. You MAY get an ex gratia payment. cheers Brian

Again, the example you give is less clear cut than this situation. You're right nothing to lose, but $50 says that if the situation is as the OP describes here (ie. There was no armed guards, locked gates etc to overcome) and this is what they have told the insurance company, they'll get nothing. Want to take the bet?

Re taking responsibility, and the example of your daughter, perhaps it helps if I say people should take responsibility that can reasonably be expected. Where a disability exists that impairs judgment etc then this person would be held to a lower/appropriate level of accountability.
The principle is the same, for your average person, man / woman up, take some accountability, deal with the consequences of your actions and stop expecting others to mitigate your mistakes. Even a 15 year old has a level of accountability, hence they can be punished in a court of law. I'll repeat though, this is a side discussion and the OPs family sound well aware of it.

[bricat]

Let me think now....I had an anxiety attack, one kid ran onto the road, I was busting to go to the toilet, one of my kids let out a blood curdling scream from inside the house. I'm sure I could and would butter up my claim so as to make me not look so stupid. The ombudsman just needs something to hang his hat on to side with the complainant. The ombudsman realises the impact against the complainant and the impact against the insurance company. That is to say the insurance company will recover the loss without any problems.

As an aside my wife walked into the house yesterday and left the car running in our driveway as she had forgotten something. So I naturally I gave her a serve. 15/love. She clipped me behind the ears on her way out. Game/set/match. cheers Brian

[ricktas]

note: Please keep this thread about the discussion. Posts suggesting/promoting lying to an insurance company are not appropriate. Also remember the Out of Focus forum is publicly viewable, not just members can see what is posted here.

[MissionMan]

Let me think now....I had an anxiety attack, one kid ran onto the road, I was busting to go to the toilet, one of my kids let out a blood curdling scream from inside the house. I'm sure I could and would butter up my claim so as to make me not look so stupid. The ombudsman just needs something to hang his hat on to side with the complainant. The ombudsman realises the impact against the complainant and the impact against the insurance company. That is to say the insurance company will recover the loss without any problems.

As an aside my wife walked into the house yesterday and left the car running in our driveway as she had forgotten something. So I naturally I gave her a serve. 15/love. She clipped me behind the ears on her way out. Game/set/match. cheers Brian

It's also worth noting that if you get caught lying on a claim form (or on the phone calls which are generally recorded), you can have your insurance cancelled and it will affect your ability to get insurance in future as well as having a policy cancelled by a company is like having your visa cancelled.

[bricat]

My apologies. It was worded badly and was more as a suggestion as to other extenuating circumstances that may have existed at the time as I am sure we don't have the FULL story. cheers Brian