Which one to buy, Nikon D800 or D800E

[flyreels]

Ok, so I was a very keen photographer when I was younger, I even had my own dedicated dark room set up for colour and black and white and I was printing wedding, portraiture prints and the likes for some of the local photographers in and around Hobart, but I have been out of photography for about 20 years now.

I have decided its time to get back into it, so I am buying a new camera (its only a hobby for me), I want to buy a Nikon and I have narrowed it down to the D800 or 800E, I will be using it for everything but my main interests however are macro, wildlife and motor sports, so which one would you buy and why.

Has anyone who owns an D800E had much trouble with any Aliasing, Moiré.

Not having any experience with DSLR any advice and help welcome.
Cheers Peter

[ving]

from reviews i'd say you wouldnt be able to tell the difference... might as well save the money.

[Sifor]

I think Ving is on the right track. The E version will allow you to squeeze every last inch of detail out of the sensor, so in my opinion unless you're printing on billboards it may be an overkill? If you've got the money go for it, however personally I'd rather save the $300-$400 extra and put that to a nice new tripod or something.

I love my D800 (but for the left AF focus issue.. story for another thread) and when paired with some good Nikon 2.8 glass it's amazing what you can do. Haven't got a telephoto lens? No problem! Just crop the crap out of it!

[phototyke]

depends what you want to photograph and whether it needs the 36mp of a D800,the slower FPS for sport is a drawback.

[reaction]

macro, wildlife and motor sports, then the D800.
Seems that Aliasing, Moiré are not real issues, and the benefit of E is best for portraits at wide apertures. Which you haven't listed.

[mongo]

Mongo has a D800 and if he were you or had his time over again, he would NOT buy either one just yet. Let them sort out all the problems first.

[MissionMan]

Mongo has a D800 and if he were you or had his time over again, he would NOT buy either one just yet. Let them sort out all the problems first.

There is nothing wrong with the D800. You just need to learn to always position the subject on the middle focus point Sure it has minor drawbacks but the thirds rule is so old school anyway

[Tommo1965]

id buy the standard D800....but also take heed of mongos post....its seems Nikon is now aware of its QC issues regarding Af misalignment so a later build D800 should be OK..but check it first in store if possible .

[arthurking83]

..... You just need to learn to always position the subject on the middle focus point Sure it has minor drawbacks but the thirds rule is so old school anyway

LOL! if only life were so simple.

YES the D800 has it's issues, and just because they're 'minor drawbacks' it doesn't excuse any high end device from these vices!!

I too was worried about the issue of moire with the D800E, but having downloaded many samples(real samples of comparative images that is!!), it's obviously more of an issue with the D800E compared to D800.
Anyone that says moire is not an issue doesn't know how to achieve it, but both the D800 and D800E do suffer from moire, when the conditions are right for it to surface.
So far from what I've seen tho, it can be processed out, and that the D800E images simply needs just that little bit more processing out effort, where the D800 obviously requires less effort.
Both Lightroom 4 and Nikon's CaptureNX2 both do a pretty capable job or removing moire to acceptable standards tho.

What I'm not entirely convinced of is this point that continually is made that the D800E extracts a bit more detail compared to the D800.
Theoretically, this should be the case, and there must surely be specific situations where this can be observed by the naked human eye, but I'm stuffed if I can clearly say I've seen it in any comparison(where it's a clear and obvious difference).
There are some situations where the images look slightly different, and the D800E images have what appears to be more 'clarity' in them compared to the same D800 images, is simply due to the processing that was created in exactly the same manner.
That is, some smart cookie thinks that to compare images between the two cameras, you can only do so by processing the images to a specific point.
To me, that's not the point!!
The point of the D800E is that it requires less processing, which really means slightly less sharpening to achieve the same detail results.

So the only real difference that I've currently seen between the two cameras, is that the E requires slightly less sharpening to achieve the same detail results.
This is different to the claims that the D800E resolves more detail!!
Pushed harder, the D800 seems to display as much detail as the human eye can resolve(at a sane enlargement levels that is).

So for me the real difference between the two(and this is from what I've seen of sample images I've downloaded) .. the D800E simply requires less post capture sharpening(USM or highpass, or whatever other process you choose) for each image.

From this, I'm still thinking that the D800E has it's merits, as long as you don't get into a situation where moire is an issue.
if that happens, then the more simple processing advantage of the D800E is nullified!

I can't see why you'd want a D800E for shooting portraits!?

D800E is ripe and perfect for situations such as landscapes, MACRO!! .. motorsports for sure.

If it were predominantly for doing portraits, the D800E would not only be a waste(I think), but sometimes more tedious to deal with due to the possibility of inducing moire from fabrics.
For many women, I suspect that they'd prefer not to have more resolution in their skin blemishes either.. so where you capture more detail resolution(say in their skin), you then probably have to soften it out again .. thus requiring even more processing!

Macro is the absolute ideal genre for a camera such as the D800E, and so would be landscapes(but you haven't listed that as a potential favoured past time tho).

I'd say go with the D800E, and listen to Mongo!!
Get it from a reputable source that will quickly and honestly assist you if any of the focus issues arise in the camera!!

[Lance B]

Having read extensively about tests done by reputable pros and testing authorities about the differences of these two cameras, you can get basically the same results from the D800 as the D800E, just that it does take a little more effort in post proccessing to get the best from the D800 in order match the D800E.

[zollo]

Don't forget that more "processing" equals more artifacts introduced into the photo. If you need to sharpen a d800 photograph more to get it to the same level as a d800e native file, you have already given away image quality, therefore, reducing resolution by a small amount. This, in my opinion is why the 800e is considered superior in resolution. No matter how good your sharpening program, or how good you are at using it, artifacts are introduced as soon as you sharpen. This is at a microscopic level, but still, it's there, and for this reason I agree with Nikon engineers in that the 800e is still superior in resolution


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[Lance B]

Don't forget that more "processing" equals more artifacts introduced into the photo. If you need to sharpen a d800 photograph more to get it to the same level as a d800e native file, you have already given away image quality, therefore, reducing resolution by a small amount. This, in my opinion is why the 800e is considered superior in resolution. No matter how good your sharpening program, or how good you are at using it, artifacts are introduced as soon as you sharpen. This is at a microscopic level, but still, it's there, and for this reason I agree with Nikon engineers in that the 800e is still superior in resolution


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Actually, this has been shown to be false. The resultant IQ from the D800 is near as damn it to the D800E that you would not pick the difference at normal print/web size and would need to be pirinted to huge sizes and even then you'd be hard pressed to pick the difference. These are from real world people who have used and lived with both.

Here is just one, interesting comments here, read post number 61 (abour a 1/3rd of the way down the page) and read further on:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/...ter-6-a-2.html

[zollo]

Yeah I've read that entire thread, interesting read, but at the end of the day, they mostly agree that there is a difference in resolution of about 1%
Either way it's there, no matter how minute. no one said its a huge difference anyway which is where people may make the decision that the tiny benefit is not worth any extra money. And you also agree that printing at full size may show differences.

Also any post processing introduces unwanted artifacts, which reduces resolution, therefore, less processing equals more res at the output stage. There's nothing untrue about that.

Below is a quote from their thread

According to van der Wolf, when differences show up, they will probably be in low contrast microdetails at spatial frequencies near theoretical max (Nyquist). This is because OLPF on the D800 is pushing the (unsharpened) response down near Nyquist, and the extra sharpening needed by D800 may not be able to pull these low contrast details out of the noise.


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[Lance B]

Yeah I've read that entire thread, interesting read, but at the end of the day, they mostly agree that there is a difference in resolution of about 1%
Either way it's there, no matter how minute. no one said its a huge difference anyway which is where people may make the decision that the tiny benefit is not worth any extra money. And you also agree that printing at full size may show differences.

Also any post processing introduces unwanted artifacts, which reduces resolution, therefore, less processing equals more res at the output stage. There's nothing untrue about that.

You won't be able to detect the differences in IQ or see the artifacts, that's the whole point.

Below is a quote from their thread

According to van der Wolf, when differences show up, they will probably be in low contrast microdetails at spatial frequencies near theoretical max (Nyquist). This is because OLPF on the D800 is pushing the (unsharpened) response down near Nyquist, and the extra sharpening needed by D800 may not be able to pull these low contrast details out of the noise.


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[flyreels]

Thanks for all the replies that is exactly what I was after, Like mongo said, I think I will wait as I would like them to get their act together in regards to quality control as that is not acceptable in a camera of this price.

I have asked 3 places so far about stock and two have said its about a 3 month wait and the third had no idea as Nikon wont give them a date? so maybe Nikon are trying to get the fix right before they send more out?
Cheers Peter

[mongo]

There is nothing wrong with the D800. You just need to learn to always position the subject on the middle focus point Sure it has minor drawbacks but the thirds rule is so old school anyway

sorry MissionMan - Mongo could not agree with this approach. If you buy a porsche you expect it to perform like one and not have to drive it in only 3rd gear all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

id buy the standard D800....but also take heed of mongos post....its seems Nikon is now aware of its QC issues regarding Af misalignment so a later build D800 should be OK..but check it first in store if possible .

Mongo agrees with Steve on this but as he says, make sure it is a later one and check it in store before you take it away

[flyreels]

"Mongo agrees with Steve on this but as he says, make sure it is a later one and check it in store before you take it away"

None of the shops I have been to in Tassie has one and will only get one in if you pay 1k up front and if you found it defective they would have to send it away anyway and their prices are way off the mark, so it will be coming from the mainland or from a sponsor of the site so I will wait until they have it sorted.
I may just buy the lenses first for the D800, I have the tripod and flash set up sorted now and on its way and then buy a new D7000 and use that body until they have it sorted, I don't want to wait 3 months for the D800 if I can help it, I was thinking about buying a D7000 as well anyway to use for some of the wildlife, sports and macro etc due to the crop factor.

[Tommo1965]

its a bit of a bugger when theres no stock of what your after...the camera is in short supply globally at the mo..I think you have the right idea..buy the lenses..perhaps a cheap Gumtree Nikon body would tide you over for six months while the D800 is sorted and in stock....one of the chaps on AP bought a D7000 brand new the other day from Eglobal for $850 delivered ...thats a pretty good deal

[mongo]

its a bit of a bugger when theres no stock of what your after...the camera is in short supply globally at the mo..I think you have the right idea..buy the lenses..perhaps a cheap Gumtree Nikon body would tide you over for six months while the D800 is sorted and in stock....one of the chaps on AP bought a D7000 brand new the other day from Eglobal for $850 delivered ...thats a pretty good deal

that's not a good deal .........that's an amazing deal !!