CCing, Why is it when?

[ricktas]

Too true,

But Rick, where they asking for CC?

It was actually just one photo that they manipulated several times, each with more 'effects'. I had commented how I 'liked' a couple of the versions, and when the one came up that I thought was over-cooked and commented with "I prefer the previous versions, this one is way over done"... I copped the wrath of the friends..hehe

So no, they did not ask for critique directly, but they happily accepted by favourable comments on the previous versions. All's fair in love, war and photography.

[ricktas]

He said what would i know- well i know you're tone deaf
and really that will never change i said. 2 weeks later watching TV and on he comes for a singing reality show- i nearly fell off my chair as the judges crucified him saying hasn't anyone told you you're tone deaf- no he says all my friends say i got what it takes....Really!!

Sounds like he needs a hearing check. Tone deaf and selectively deaf too! thanks for the story, it made me smile

[WhoDo]

I am more hesitant to give feedback myself as am not sure how the opinion of a beginner will be taken, sometimes i like things that may not be technically perfect.

Please don't be hesitant, MMF. It's only in technical areas where you may or may not have the right info. When it comes to what you like or don't like about an image, your opinion is 100% as good as the best 'tog on the site! It's YOUR opinion and worth every bit as much as mine, for example.

For me, I like to get opinions from others regardless of their experience level. I want my images to "strike a chord" in the viewer, regardless of what they may or may not know on a technical level. Sure it's great if a really experienced, quality 'tog likes my images but I don't take or post them only for the experienced, quality 'tog; I'm not one of them either!

Don't let your experience level stop you from having an opinion; just don't take it personally if it isn't shared. That's life.

[LJG]

The trouble is many of us (me included) look at our images and can be quite blind to problems with them. We look at say gee, I'm happy with that, but really, it is just another happy snap that may have been better composed, shot from a different angle etc etc. If we get good critique that also offers us suggestions on what may have been better, it is gold. Just bagging an image without offering any explanation on how to improve it though just doesn't help the OP much.

[Kym]

It takes some guts to put up an image and get some decent CC, which is why we see a lot join AP then not stay.
Those that do stay and take the CC on board (remembering CC maybe wrong, its just another opinion, but it helps your thinking) do improve their skills!

I'm off to do my first camera club judging at the end of the month, (I did the SAPF juding course late last year).
I'm expecting that about 1/2 the members of that club probably won't like my comment or score (normal)
- but club judging is anther form of CC and that's how we learn.

[Dylan & Marianne]

I hope the thread isn't referring to one of mine lol
anyway, with regard to CC and responses to CC you also need to consider that the person receiving the CC isn't always obliged to return your CC with 'thanks I like it'.
If they truly believe that you've interpreted something incorrectly or disagree with your opinion, then it's generating a discussion about that by disagreeing with your CC may in turn give you insight into why something was done. (likewise, stating that you agree with the CC can also be as helpful)

I remember one thread where you commented on a pano crop for an image which I disagreed with and stated the reasons why and posted a version you had suggested (and gerry's suggestions as well) I believe that that exercise opened my eyes a little whereas if I had just said thanks or clicked the thanks button, noone would have learned anything and those alternative versions would not have been viewed at all.

We say we're being honest with CC - but let's also be honest in our reply to the CC perhaps? If all we do is click thanks on CC, then the person giving the critique thinks they're always right which i think is strangely unilateral thinking as well.

[dbax]

unfortunately some people have difficulty distinguishing between a critique and criticism. While there can be positive criticism, today more and more people regard any criticism as negative. And are closed to any alternative views or opinions. Which isnt a good way to learn or expand your understanding of photography in this case.

[Shelley]

I agree Dylan and think it goes both ways. Sometimes people get upset when you question their cc, whereas often you are trying to understand where they come from. I will query cc or come back with a reason why I didn't do that etc., I think all is a part of the process of learning and hopefully improving.

In saying this I would like more cc on my bird shots as I am in the process of doing my website and submitting images in a national competition - and I want to know if something is not quite right. I also know I need to give more information with my images when posting and to do this I probably won't post as many as I have done in the past.

[mikew09]

I am with your roosta, I actually ask for Honest feedback in my sign block. Can't say I ahave ever been affended by critique and some have been harsh. Can't say I always agree with all cc comments of my photos either if I was to be honest. For me feed back is not always about how good a photo is technicially but it helps to educate the photographers eye I think. I have taken some photos that are good technically and I think the composure or subject or whatever is a cracka photo and then a majority may say it is well taken but a bit boring. That tells me I am not seeing the frame of the image well enough as a photographer.
CC has defiantely helped me improve my photographer and now I have won my first weekly comp.

So Yea, I wonder the same questions sometimes.

[harper]

i totally agree. sure someone might like some of my images but there critiques drive me to get better and therefore produce better images.

i joined this forum for that reason as there are a lot of more advanced photographers that will offer you advice.

and for me if someone likes my images thats just a bonus

[Kym]

Also: You lose tone of voice when posting or emailing...

Please use emoticons where needed, choose your words carefully, think before you post: "How will someone else interpret this?"

[Roosta]

Slightly off thread but in the same vein when I was working at a theatre in the city this awful noise come from just outside my dressing room as i was warming up, I went out to see and hear a young actor practising one of my songs. I had to tell him to shut up as it was so bad that it threatened to put me off. He said what would i know- well i know you're tone deaf
and really that will never change i said. 2 weeks later watching TV and on he comes for a singing reality show- i nearly fell off my chair as the judges crucified him saying hasn't anyone told you you're tone deaf- no he says all my friends say i got what it takes....Really!!

Awesome, The irony of it all.

[mini696]

I need C/C. How else will I learn.

I would rather someone tell me what they would like to see, how they would have edited it etc so I can try something new. Sometimes I need to be told more than once to "try infill flash" for example, because I forget. Photography isn't second nature to me... Yet.

I also learn what other people like. Afterall I wont be the one buying my photos, so even if I like it there may not be a market for my style.

@MMF I too am a photography noob, but I like to get feedback from everyone, from soccer mum's with a P&S to a Pro with 16 cameras around their necks. Again like my previous comment the people buying my shots are not likely to be pro photographers, so feedback from "the layman" is very valuable.

[Roosta]

I am more hesitant to give feedback myself as am not sure how the opinion of a beginner will be taken, sometimes i like things that may not be technically perfect

That's part of the bueaty in it, you can always just add what you like/dislike about the image, with out being overly or not so technical. It's always regarded as warm and fuzzy to get a pat on the back or have soem appreciation thrown your way..

Tuff break on the injury. (no pun intended)

[Roosta]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I saw the thread and I saw the way the guy reacted.

Sorry mate, wasn't meant to come across as disagreeing..

It's more in general across the site, not so just that one post, but, yeap, that was the katalyst for this little diddy starting.

Apollo made a great point re CCing, if you think your image may attrack some feedback you wish it not get, put it under the 'Not for Critque' section if your (Not you John ((Generalising))) worried. Thats what it's there for.

Cheers mate,

[Roosta]

I tend to write what I think is "Out of Place" with an image. I try to be truthful. Yes, sometimes it comes back and bites me on the Butt. I'm not going to delete my post, or change it, just to make them happy. But at least I'm honest.

Too true mate..

[Roosta]

It takes some guts to put up an image and get some decent CC, which is why we see a lot join AP then not stay.
Those that do stay and take the CC on board (remembering CC maybe wrong, its just another opinion, but it helps your thinking) do improve their skills!

I'm off to do my first camera club judging at the end of the month, (I did the SAPF juding course late last year).
I'm expecting that about 1/2 the members of that club probably won't like my comment or score (normal)
- but club judging is anther form of CC and that's how we learn.

Bullet or Knife proof vest may be in order there mate, good luck with that. But in fairness to the judges, it's all down to taking in the opinion on the image/technique/enter what you like here, and working with it or moving on, not liking or taking it on baord. That's the battle the judge has to put forward, doesn't and I'm sure not always appreciated by the supplier of the image. But hay, that's life. Still, better you Kym, than me. LOL

I hope the thread isn't referring to one of mine lol
anyway, with regard to CC and responses to CC you also need to consider that the person receiving the CC isn't always obliged to return your CC with 'thanks I like it'.
If they truly believe that you've interpreted something incorrectly or disagree with your opinion, then it's generating a discussion about that by disagreeing with your CC may in turn give you insight into why something was done. (likewise, stating that you agree with the CC can also be as helpful)

I remember one thread where you commented on a pano crop for an image which I disagreed with and stated the reasons why and posted a version you had suggested (and gerry's suggestions as well) I believe that that exercise opened my eyes a little whereas if I had just said thanks or clicked the thanks button, noone would have learned anything and those alternative versions would not have been viewed at all.

We say we're being honest with CC - but let's also be honest in our reply to the CC perhaps? If all we do is click thanks on CC, then the person giving the critique thinks they're always right which i think is strangely unilateral thinking as well.

Your in the clear mate, and as always very well put.

Thanks for the feedback.

Like Button x 1 tick for me (blast the button)

[Roosta]

I am with your roosta, I actually ask for Honest feedback in my sign block. Can't say I ahave ever been affended by critique and some have been harsh. Can't say I always agree with all cc comments of my photos either if I was to be honest. For me feed back is not always about how good a photo is technicially but it helps to educate the photographers eye I think. I have taken some photos that are good technically and I think the composure or subject or whatever is a cracka photo and then a majority may say it is well taken but a bit boring. That tells me I am not seeing the frame of the image well enough as a photographer.
CC has defiantely helped me improve my photographer and now I have won my first weekly comp.

So Yea, I wonder the same questions sometimes.

Thanks Mike, and well done on the comp win, maybe some of the Honest feedback contributed toward the win.

This seems to be a factor of photography, everybody has their point of view, but just getting it out of them ?

Cheers mate

[geoffsta]

The difference between being judged at the club level is that your image is generally judged by one person. One of the members on here got totally canned at her local club. That very same image won her category with the National APS. Who is right, and who is wrong? Everyone has an opinion. And all opinions should be taken on board, whether they are right or wrong. It's better to impress most of the people. Not just the few.

That is why I love this site. I'm judged by many of my peers. And I'd rather get a kick in the guts, than a pat on the back when I upload an image for CC that is not up to scratch. How else am I to learn.....

[Xenedis]

The difference between being judged at the club level is that your image is generally judged by one person. One of the members on here got totally canned at her local club. That very same image won her category with the National APS.

A friend of mine had an image totally overlooked at the camera club level (and one which is known for very tough competition), but won Nationals.

Go figure.

Judges are just people (who have biases), and their judgements are just opinions.

As photographers, we can either choose to accept those judgements, or reject them.