D800 is here..

[JM Tran]

Rod, as some here would know I'm a publisher for a national glossy mag and a shooter for National Geo (have been for close on 30 years). Don't get hung up on megapixels, in the real world they have little bearing on your work if you are a good photographer. I've been shooting stuff for billboards on the D700 for years (12.1mp) and no one has complained. My D3x is better for studio stuff but that's pretty rare these days.
A full frame camera is great for most mags but I have to admit a lot of stuff I receive for publication is further down the chain.
As for the Brissy demo it just goes to show there are still a lot of tyre kickers out there.
Business wise, even with depreciation, there's little value in buying at the top of the market.
Like all technology, prices will drop rapidly, particularly when Nikon include the same sensor in their next consumer release.
BTW: Firmware upgrades can make a hell of a difference particularly if the manufacturer fixes or activates a feature that wasn't ready at point of release. Happens regularly.

I have to agree with Redgum about the MP thing.

Since when has 6MP not adequate for a 2 page spread lol, I have seen it used for 40x30 inch or 45x30 inch prints and it still looks fine.

[rodw]

I have to agree with Redgum about the MP thing.

Since when has 6MP not adequate for a 2 page spread lol, I have seen it used for 40x30 inch or 45x30 inch prints and it still looks fine.

I appreciate what you guys are saying. It's been a while since I had my printing business so technology may have changed but neither we, or any other commercial printer I knew had any luck upsampling photos. The industry rule of thumb was DPI should be 1.5 - 2 times screen resolution on an offset press. So given an average screen resolution of 150 lines per inch (which is probably low by today's technology), we can get away with 225-300 dpi in a photo. This is why most printers want a 300 dpi photo. Yes the rules are made to be broken, but an A3 spread would see it down to about 175 dpi once you allow for bleeds and before any cropping occurs which is cutting it pretty fine by my book. These days, the use of stochastic screening may extend this a bit further but not by much.

Continuous tone Photo Prints are another matter, and certainly any of my 6mb pics print fine on 320x450 mm (oversize A3) on a calibrated graphics arts quality Colour CMYK laser output device. With one of these output devices around, I've never bothered with traditional enlargements.

So I guess it is me saying 6 mp is not good enough, 12 would have been enough but the market has moved past that plus I get a quality video camera for free! In any case, the deal is done, as I set my direction over 12 months ago when the D800's specs were unknown. To back out now means I don't have the right lenses for a DX.

I really am looking forward to getting my hands on this D800 and expect to have one in the first batch because I pre-ordered within 3 days of its release. I guess the good thing is that the $6-7k I've allocated to photo gear over the last 18 months ( including this purchase) has been fully funded, the lenses are to hand, I ordered the memory cards today based on the specs in the manual and Rod's camera fund has recovered enough to buy this body.

Some may think I'm wasting my money, but it is mine to waste and whilst I am not a pro, I've had an SLR since 1982, and do have a handle on the technical aspects of photography and the D800's resolution is playing into my hands with what I want to do in the future even if it exceeds my minimum requirements while addressing the weaknesses of a bottom of the range digital body that I have found frustrating trying to produce shots I've got paid for.

[Redgum]

Rod said

Some may think I'm wasting my money, but it is mine to waste and whilst I am not a pro, I've had an SLR since 1982, and do have a handle on the technical aspects of photography and the D800's resolution is playing into my hands with what I want to do in the future even if it exceeds my minimum requirements while addressing the weaknesses of a bottom of the range digital body that I have found frustrating trying to produce shots I've got paid for.

Rod, I don't think anyone is suggesting your wasting money, in fact to the contrary, buying a D800 should give you lots of pleasure. My comments centre around timing. Buying now, at premium price, can never be a worthwhile asset. Buying in six months time is a different scenario. And the FX lens will still fit.

[rodw]

Rod said
Rod, I don't think anyone is suggesting your wasting money, in fact to the contrary, buying a D800 should give you lots of pleasure. My comments centre around timing. Buying now, at premium price, can never be a worthwhile asset. Buying in six months time is a different scenario. And the FX lens will still fit.

Nah, the deeds done and the only DX lens I have is the kit lens that came with my current body. If we were talking $10k, maybe the wait may be worth it, but the time is right for me now and the price difference will likley be paid for by then. Sometimes when you wait to execute a plan patiently, you need to get it over with so you can get on with life instead of dreaming.

[I @ M]

What a premium we pay for time! In just six months the D800, like most camera bodies before it, will probably be at least 20% cheaper. At the end of the year I'll be able to get two bodies for the price of one. Thank you early adopters, you've just saved me a fortune.
And for those who can't do firmware updates buying early can be a hazard.

Sorry, I simply can't agree with that.
A working "pro" shooting 6 days a week for Nat Geo ( even "pros" need the seventh day off to relax or to take the dog for a walk or something ) will be quite happy to be using their new body, making fabulous amounts of money and earning interest on said money for 6 months while those who wait for the ( speculated ) price drop may be missing out on some of the advantages that newer technology offers.

Of course, if you aren't one of those highly paid pros and simply want ( and can afford ) a new body to fulfil your gear lust then why even consider it, just go ahead and buy when you want.

The scenario works all round for me.

I really really for the life of me fail to see where the firmware comment has any relevance whatsoever to the thought process.
Nikon firmware updates have always in my experience been a very painless 10 minute process and in all likelihood most people purchasing a D800 will have been through the job on previous cameras. Those that don't have a clue about doing it can always take it back to their friendly local dealer who as part of their service in selling the camera to you at a massive price premium will be quite happy to to the firmware upgrade for you.
It aint rocket science and the Nikon sites where the firmware upgrade can be downloaded from usually go into pretty good detail about how one performs the job.

Another interesting point with pricing, a well known grey importer who announced pre orders at $2999.00 has now raised their prices by $300.00 -----

[rodw]

I think some of you guys will be waiting for a while for both stock and a price reduction. See here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...800-shortages/
And
http://www.techradar.com/news/photog...s-list-1072221

Let's face it, you only drop your price due to competive pressures or your sales volume is not high enough. While demand exceeds supply, don't expect to get a discount by deferring your purchase. If I was Nikon, I'd raise prices until demand balances supply. That's basic economic theory and sound commercial practice.

[image2paint]

Ive got a D800 on pre-order, and it will bring me a lot of pleasure when it does arrive. I cant wait!

I think price drops etc. for these new FX cameras don't really apply in the classic sense. If you look at the D700 which came in at around $2999 in 2008, it was still selling for $2700 in february/march 2012 !!! and use D700 for $2200 on ebay. Ive read forum's where its been said Nikon has said if you are only just putting your order in for a D800 it may not be filled till about August.

The D800 is a unique DSLR as it is the highest pixel count FF DSLR available on the market. If you want one, don't wait 6 months in the hope that it will drop $200 or something... because the D800 most likely won't be dropping in price any time soon. The demand for this camera is going to trend on for a long long time... I predict it will still sell for $3300 in 2013

[I @ M]

I think price drops etc. for these new FX cameras don't really apply in the classic sense. If you look at the D700 which came in at around $2999 in 2008, it was still selling for $2700 in february/march 2012 !!! and use D700 for $2200 on ebay.

Why would anyone pay $2700.00 for a new D700 or even more so why would anyone pay $2200.00 for a s/h body when they are available brand spanking new at Australian b&m official Nikon Aus stores for $2425.0 drive away no more to pay with a 2 year warranty?

[rodw]

Nikon sent me an email yesterday to say the D800 is "I am in store now" with a list of suppliers and links to the stores web page for the D800. There is quite a price range in the various stores.

Apparently, Nikon will be closing for a stocktake next week so there will be no more shipments until 1 April.

Apparently, pre-orders by NPS members have preference over us mere mortals so most of us might still be waiting for a while longer, but I live in hope!

I agree totally with I@M. Why would you buy a used D700 over a new one and why would you buy a new D700 instead of a D800 that offers so much more than a few extra Mp?

[Tommo1965]

im still waiting for redgum to say where you can get a brand new D700 for $1790..as I want one for that money


Ive downloaded a few raw image examples from the new D800..and other than the movie and dual card slots im not sure there's a lot of advantage over the D700..to be honest at 100% pixel peeping the D800 files looked softer than the D700 , viewed at the same screen size I may add.......Im waiting to see what DXO comes up with in respects to added DR of the D800..if it has a lot more DR..that would seal a deal rather than the MP increase ...

one other point...I use a I5 Intel with 4 gig ram..CS5/ light-room...and no question a 36 m file has a huge impact on workflow....everything you do with them takes longer... de-noise / sharpening even opening the file etc....a current I7 processor wont add much to a increase in pc power either ..I already use a ss hardrive and the PC has a very recent clean install too

[I @ M]

Tommo, forget the megapickels in any comparison between the 2 cameras and concentrate on the other refinements of what was already an excellent camera in the D700.
Think about the other positives that the D800 offers in the way of focus ability, 100% viewfinder, improved metering and expanded iso range.
They alone mean that for us it is a worthwhile addition to rather than an upgrade from the D700.

The D800 is clearly not meant to replace the D700 as an all round camera and is obviously not suited to being used as a spray and pray machine but rather as a body that you use for deliberately calculated and set up shoots. Landscape and portrait photographers are flocking to it.

I for one am not in the slightest bit worried about processing times or storage of images and the ones that do start complaining about those issues maybe need to reassess whether the D800 is the camera that they want need.

[image2paint]

Why would anyone pay $2700.00 for a new D700 or even more so why would anyone pay $2200.00 for a s/h body when they are available brand spanking new at Australian b&m official Nikon Aus stores for $2425.0 drive away no more to pay with a 2 year warranty?

The D700 was for sale in jan/feb for $26-2700 from authorised Nikon Aus dealers... I watched many used D700's go for over $2000 on ebay during february because I was interested in buying one in january but had been following the rumors of the feb7th D800 announcement and waited. Of course that price has come down the $200 you mention since the D800 announcement on feb7th. Even so, I@M you still are compounding my point... that a 4 year old camera is still selling for 81% of its original asking price, which is amazing.

I personally would not buy a D700 right now. I was merely pointing out to people who are thinking of waiting 6-8 months for a price drop in the D800 for them not to hold their breath for any significant amount if the slow price drop of the D700 is anything to go by.

[I @ M]

Even so, I@M you still are compounding my point... that a 4 year old camera is still selling for 81% of its original asking price, which is amazing.

I never doubted that at all, if you read back through a post or two of mine in this thread you will see that I felt that the D800 will stay at a high price point for a long time.
I merely thought that your figures and dates were a little bit out of whack as in your post above you were saying that the D700 was selling in Feb / Mar this year for $2700.00 and seeing as it is still March and at least one b&m Aus Nikon dealer has had it for sale at $2425.00 for a month now the low price has been set.
Also, the D700 retailed at release ( and for quite some time while it was in short supply ) for $3400.00 and not $2999.00 so I too expect the D800 to maintain current retail prices for at least 12 months.

As for anyone considering purchasing a D700 at the current price point, it is one heck of a good camera, didn't suddenly stop taking great pictures and at todays retail level a positive bargain.

[Tommo1965]

yep Andrew.. that's what I was probably trying to say, its the other refinements that the D800 might bring that will get me excited...the extra MP isnt really doing it for me...and the extra time taken to PP the larger files will affect some people....Im not a wedding shooter or a machine gunner...hell I don't even thing my D300s has ever been out of single shot..LOL...so ill never be processing hundreds of images...

[rodw]

I got this in an email from my supplier today. No camera for me yet unfortunately, but I expected that.

Over the past few weeks, information from Nikon has been difficult to obtain, however last night and a little ahead of schedule, Nikon announced that stores would be stocking the D800 from today.#As you have probably already gathered, pre-orders in Australia have far outstripped supply, and will continue to do so for some time. The initial shipment from Nikon has been incredibly small to all stores, however the good news is that stock has been advised to be shipping every 7-10 days presently, and shipment quantities are expecting to increase in size into April.

I agree with the other comments that the technology advancements are of more interest than the megapixels.

[swifty]

If there are any more doubters still around, D800 just got DXOMarked.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/New...-a-score-of-95
Not that it's the be all and end all of tests, afterall each photographer needs to work out what's best for him/herself but this should be a pretty strong endorsement.
My only problem is I've never come close to exceeding the capabilities of my D700 so surely this thing would be wasted on me lol.

[ricktas]

Must add, that whilst auto sensor cleaning is not new, or perfect, after shooting with a D3 these past few years, which is the biggest sensor dust collection vessel known to mankind, I am looking forward to my first auto sensor cleaning camera. It will (hopefully) just be another one of the benefits of having a D800.

[arthurking83]

I've been playing around with D800 files for the past week, and so far using both CNX2 and VNX2(both 64bit) there is a slightly noticeable slowdown in processing between D300 and D800 NEFs.

A highish ISO NEF from the D300 set with a medium level of develop level noise reduction in CNX2 too 15 sec to save the NEF file with that NR applied .. and instantly saved again if the NR was deactivated.
A 4-5x larger NEF from the D800 set with the same amount of NR took 30 sec to save the NEF file with NR applied and took a sec or two(ie. slightly slower) to resave the file with the NR deactivated.

Using my preferred method of NR via an edit step there seemed to be less difference in saving the NEF images.

This is my first foray into actually looking at processing times for images from the D800, I've mainly concentrated on image quality(which looks a lot better than I expected).

You would expect processing times to be slower, and considering that the average file I have from the D800 samples out there are in the 50Mb range, where the average image size on the D300 files I'm using for comparison are in the 11-14Mb range for now .. but can balloon out to over 20Mb if required.

My PC is now a two year old AMD x4 running at 3Ghz or so, with 8G ram.... and old hat standard(but speedy) magnetic hard drives.

With CaptureNX2, my experience is that if you have fast hard drives and good ram speed, you get quite fast operations from the software .. images all load in about 1-5sec depending on location and whether it's still in the cache file. Not enough difference between the D300 and D800 images for opening and applying most edit steps, but it seems that processor speed is required for noise reduction when using CNX2.
(of course VNX2 doesn't have NR).

[arthurking83]

And as I remember the Australian list price for the D700 when released and for a while after that was closer to AU$4200 or so.
D300 was in the AU$2700-2800 range for at least 6 months after release.

These are Nikon Aus RRP's, and the cheapest price I found grey was from the now defunct PhotoBuff Melb based grey retailer at $2300.

Back then tho AU-US exchange rates were much less advantageous for us Aussies!

[TEITZY]

D800 prices are going UP in the UK and some saying it may happen in other countries. Based on current demand I can't see any reason why prices should drop significantly in the next 12 months especially if the $AUS drops. Looks like I'll be able to afford one in about 2015 at this rate

Cheers
Leigh