Fujiflim X-pro 1

[KeeFy]

I was searching AP to add on to an existing thread regading this camera but there is none? Seriously? Is no one else excited about the camera as well? LoL

Anyway a couple of sample images

http://www.christianfletcher.com.au/...ring-sheep.jpg
http://www.clubulfoto.com/teste/fuji...1/DSCF9835.JPG

These were taken at 6400 ISO on a APS-C sensor. Impressive to say the least! Looks like the rest of the manufacturers have a lot to catch up to in terms of APS-C.

[Cage]

I was searching AP to add on to an existing thread regading this camera but there is none? Seriously? Is no one else excited about the camera as well? LoL

Sorry, it doesn't do a whole lot for me.

[arthurking83]

...... Seriously? Is no one else excited about the camera as well? LoL

.......




These were taken at 6400 ISO on a APS-C sensor. Impressive to say the least! Looks like the rest of the manufacturers have a lot to catch up to in terms of APS-C.

Unless you're into the system to begin with, a lack of enthusiasm is completely understandable.

A very expensive camera, with what will inevitably come with relatively expensive and very few lens choices to boot.
Getting excited over gear that has no relevance to me is a regular occurrence, and I suspect that many others exist with similar philosophies.

D4 I could get excited over .. and this depends on the final specs of the impending D800, but if the specs of the D800 end up on a tangent to what I want to see in my next camera, the excitement of the D4 may turn into action!

For a comparison to the ISO6400 image link you posted, here's one from a D7000 at ISO 12800:



Up to this point I had no experience with the D7000. This particular shot was captured via a friend's D7000(I don't own one) and is the 5th image I shot with it.
Does it compare favourably with the ISO6400 image from the X-Pro1?

[KeeFy]

Unless you're into the system to begin with, a lack of enthusiasm is completely understandable.

A very expensive camera, with what will inevitably come with relatively expensive and very few lens choices to boot.
Getting excited over gear that has no relevance to me is a regular occurrence, and I suspect that many others exist with similar philosophies.

D4 I could get excited over .. and this depends on the final specs of the impending D800, but if the specs of the D800 end up on a tangent to what I want to see in my next camera, the excitement of the D4 may turn into action!

For a comparison to the ISO6400 image link you posted, here's one from a D7000 at ISO 12800:



Up to this point I had no experience with the D7000. This particular shot was captured via a friend's D7000(I don't own one) and is the 5th image I shot with it.
Does it compare favourably with the ISO6400 image from the X-Pro1?

Oddly the ISO EXIF bit also is missing from the file itself also it's not exactly a great test as the texture of the lens hides the noise in the black bits.

Some shots from online. ISO6400

http://sportsphotoguy.com/wordpress/...12/ISO6400.jpg
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/5...1fe753e3_o.jpg


I still think the Fujiflim is 1 notch ahead. I guess people are not excited due to the genre of what the X-pro 1 is starting to offer. Rangefinder like qualities to bridge you into a lecia. There is speculation that fuji will be launching a full frame equivalent in the near future and fujinon lenses need no introduction. As for the cost of lenses, i reckon it should be in L/Gold lens territory.. no difference. Also shortage of lenses will not be a problem with the m adaptor that is slated to be released soon which has decently cheap lenses by voigtlander to fill in the gap.

I foresee myself going down the path of a leica in the future but gettin a fuji to bridge the entrance into the Rangefinder market is something that i've been looking forward to and for the longest time the only way to do so is flim, so this will be a game changer. Afterall leica lenses don't come cheap and acquisition will be painfully slow.

[Bennymiata]

Looks like a highly specified little camera, with lots of great features like the hybrid viewfinder and excellent rear display.
The Fujinon lenses should be really good too.
Looks to be about the best of all the mirror-less cameras right now.

Any idea on prices?

[davsv1]

US$1700 ....Amazon.com

[KeeFy]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...al_Camera.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._1_4_XF_R.html

Pre-order prices. I reckon the price will come down some few hundred bucks on the body. the 35mm 1.4 is pretty cheap considering it's fujinon!

[Bennymiata]

While the specs look good, I wonder how many people would buy a camera like this for the price.

A reasonable SLR is cheaper and far more versatile.

You would think that without having a mirror and all the extra gubbins required for it, that a mirrorless camera SHOULD be far cheaper than an SLR.
Sure the Fuji is smaller, but by the time you buy one and a couple of lenses for it, you could easily buy a Canon 7D or a Nikon 7000 with a good zoom lens, and have a much wider range of accessories to go with it.

I'm sure they will sell a few of them, but I don't think they will really hurt the sales of DSLR's until their prices drop to well below DSLR's.

I was reading some stats the other day, and they were saying that the mirrorless cameras have around 9% of the digital interchangeable lens camera market, world wide.
The percentage in Japan and the UK are higher, up to 19%, but it goes to show that they are not having a huge impact on photography, as yet.

What would you prefer to blow $2K on?
A smaller mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses, or a proper DSLR and lenses?

[KeeFy]

While the specs look good, I wonder how many people would buy a camera like this for the price.

A reasonable SLR is cheaper and far more versatile.

You would think that without having a mirror and all the extra gubbins required for it, that a mirrorless camera SHOULD be far cheaper than an SLR.
Sure the Fuji is smaller, but by the time you buy one and a couple of lenses for it, you could easily buy a Canon 7D or a Nikon 7000 with a good zoom lens, and have a much wider range of accessories to go with it.

I'm sure they will sell a few of them, but I don't think they will really hurt the sales of DSLR's until their prices drop to well below DSLR's.

I was reading some stats the other day, and they were saying that the mirrorless cameras have around 9% of the digital interchangeable lens camera market, world wide.
The percentage in Japan and the UK are higher, up to 19%, but it goes to show that they are not having a huge impact on photography, as yet.

What would you prefer to blow $2K on?
A smaller mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses, or a proper DSLR and lenses?

I understand your point of view, but the target market is not exactly the normal dslr users but rather the range finders and more enthusiasts. Take the x100 for example. Only 100k of them was sold worldwide. Not a whole lot if you think about it, but considering it costs $1k.. it is quite a feat. It's more of a niche market like how the leica is and i'd imagine that's that slice of pie that they want. I don't think this camera has much of a threat to any of the other DSLR manufactures as it's more of a addon to your current gear rather than sell your gear and buy into this system. EG: If i were to get a leica or fuji, i'd still keep my canon gear. Couple of friends are considering buying the camera just that they are waiting for the m adapter to be released.

As for mirrorless cameras like the m4/3 and nikon v1, i've always frowned upon them and felt they are more like a fashion statement rather than anything else. In comparison, the fuji is like the sony nex which i feel is a pretty decent camera.

[swifty]

The X1 Pro's definitely an exciting product for the target audience, and I am impressed with the IQ from the samples I've seen.
But in my quest for my perfect travel cam, other factors other than pure image quality has become increasingly important.
If I was starting a system from scratch today with no prior investments, I may indeed look at the XPro1. However having invested a sizeable amount of money in Nikon FX, I have far less interest in actually buying into the system. Personally I'd prefer to see their organic sensor in FX size in a Fuji S6 Pro using the F-mount but we know the S# Pro line has been long dead.

As for compact cameras (either with fixed or interchangeable lens) the intended destination where most of these images will end up has made me reevaluate what I consider important features. And ultimate IQ ranks far lower now than it use to because I think technology has matured to a stage where every current APS-C sensor is good enough. I'd also argue that every m43 sensor is also good enough and even Nikon CX, if there are faster native lens for the format.

[arthurking83]

It'll be interesting to see where they take the Fujinon name in terms of quality from here on.

I'm with swifty in that I'd prefer to have seen a new range of DSLRs from them .. but not only in the F-mount format, Canon and even Pentax mounts would have given them new horizons to look towards too.

The money they're asking for it is prohibitively expensive where for similar money gets you a single example from a huge range of top end Nikon lenses .. let alone the usually cheaper Canon equivalent.
The size of the device doesn't really make it pocketable either, so it's not really a much more compact camera compared to a DSLR + prime lens anyhow .. not in the same way that a 4/3rds mirrorless camera or a Nikon V1.
I can see the appeal in the V1 too tho .. have had a few wavering thoughts of acquiring one for myself.
Not really interested in one, but I can see the appeal in them, and the sample images I'm seeing from the V1 coupled to good Nikon lenses are looking quite good too.

The point of the image I posted was to highlight the detail still available at that high ISO setting used in camera. The fine texture of the lens is what is being shown.
No camera NR that I know of was used(except for whatever hidden NR Nikon sets in the D7K), and I used very minimal NR in CaptureNX2(which has very very basic NR routine .. unlike the more detailed and capable NR software available from third party software vendors) .. so the image is basically as is off the camera, with non professional and very basic and weak NR applied to it, and it hardly displays any Chroma noise(where the X-Pro1 seems to produce more on the featureless flat areas).

I think after much testing and comparisons have been done once the camera is in the hands of the review sites, that the Pentax and Nikon versions of the Sony 16Mp sensor will still come out slightly ahead in noise terms compared to the X-Pro1.

[Bennymiata]

Fuji are well known for their excellent lenses and sensor technology.
Not too many other lens makers can make $100,000+ video lenses and have a waiting list for them, and the lenses they make for Hasselblad are also truely excellent pieces of glass.
I think Fuji are trying to stay away from the normal DSLR market, and so, have released the X1-Pro.
The X-100 has sold very well, and I would imagine that probably 90% of the buyers also have a DSLR, but want a compact camera with an APS-C sized sensor that has real quality, but I doubt many are sold to casual users looking for a compact.
It's too expensive for that.
I can also bet that some of the owners would wish that Fuji would also do this same camera with a zoom lens.

Personally, I think Canon have got it right in this arena with their new GX-1, where you have an almost APS-C sized sensor combined with a useful zoom range (24-110 in 35mm equivalent terms), which will mean you won't really need any extra lenses as this range will do 90% of what most compact camera users want anyway, and you won't be paying an exhorbitant amount for extra lenses either, which push the prices up to far beyond even mid-range DSLR's.
At US$799 in the US, it isn't cheap, but there really isn't anything else in the market which does what it does with a sensor that size or larger, and it's far less expensive than mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, yet the quality will be on a par with them.

As I've said before, I think that Canon will bring out this sensor with an interchangeable lens system, probably using EF-S lenses and I reckon that many Canon DSLR users would buy one as a compact alternative when travelling etc., but then again, the GX-1 caters for 90% of what you will need anyway.

I think the Fuji X-1 pro will sell it's head off initially, but i"m sure it's sales will wane as people realise that it isn't real value for money, and for the same money, they could get something better and more useful.

[KeeFy]

It'll be interesting to see where they take the Fujinon name in terms of quality from here on.

I'm with swifty in that I'd prefer to have seen a new range of DSLRs from them .. but not only in the F-mount format, Canon and even Pentax mounts would have given them new horizons to look towards too.

The money they're asking for it is prohibitively expensive where for similar money gets you a single example from a huge range of top end Nikon lenses .. let alone the usually cheaper Canon equivalent.
The size of the device doesn't really make it pocketable either, so it's not really a much more compact camera compared to a DSLR + prime lens anyhow .. not in the same way that a 4/3rds mirrorless camera or a Nikon V1.
I can see the appeal in the V1 too tho .. have had a few wavering thoughts of acquiring one for myself.
Not really interested in one, but I can see the appeal in them, and the sample images I'm seeing from the V1 coupled to good Nikon lenses are looking quite good too.

The point of the image I posted was to highlight the detail still available at that high ISO setting used in camera. The fine texture of the lens is what is being shown.
No camera NR that I know of was used(except for whatever hidden NR Nikon sets in the D7K), and I used very minimal NR in CaptureNX2(which has very very basic NR routine .. unlike the more detailed and capable NR software available from third party software vendors) .. so the image is basically as is off the camera, with non professional and very basic and weak NR applied to it, and it hardly displays any Chroma noise(where the X-Pro1 seems to produce more on the featureless flat areas).

I think after much testing and comparisons have been done once the camera is in the hands of the review sites, that the Pentax and Nikon versions of the Sony 16Mp sensor will still come out slightly ahead in noise terms compared to the X-Pro1.

The kind of money they're asking is of people who are willing to spend and have disposable income, typically the leica folks and such. As i've mentioned, niche market. It's like trying to market a Lotus Exige. 0 creature comforts but only thing it has is handling and performance. Why not get porsche cayman s for a similar price at close to the performace of a exige? Most folks will still buy the porsche. The exige is a niche market item that only few will appreciate. I for one will take the exige over the cayman s.

As for comparison of sensors, i'm pretty confident the fuji sensor will come out on top of the current 16MP sensors and DXO will hopefully soon prove me right.

To be honest, I don't think that image you took is ISO 12800, esp when the ISO value on the EXIF is missing. Many sample images online from the d7000 at 12800 without any PP is not as clean as your sample image. Don't take this personally but without the EXIF information, i suspect you may have accidentally confused your images.

Fuji are well known for their excellent lenses and sensor technology.
Not too many other lens makers can make $100,000+ video lenses and have a waiting list for them, and the lenses they make for Hasselblad are also truely excellent pieces of glass.
I think Fuji are trying to stay away from the normal DSLR market, and so, have released the X1-Pro.
The X-100 has sold very well, and I would imagine that probably 90% of the buyers also have a DSLR, but want a compact camera with an APS-C sized sensor that has real quality, but I doubt many are sold to casual users looking for a compact.
It's too expensive for that.
I can also bet that some of the owners would wish that Fuji would also do this same camera with a zoom lens.

Personally, I think Canon have got it right in this arena with their new GX-1, where you have an almost APS-C sized sensor combined with a useful zoom range (24-110 in 35mm equivalent terms), which will mean you won't really need any extra lenses as this range will do 90% of what most compact camera users want anyway, and you won't be paying an exhorbitant amount for extra lenses either, which push the prices up to far beyond even mid-range DSLR's.
At US$799 in the US, it isn't cheap, but there really isn't anything else in the market which does what it does with a sensor that size or larger, and it's far less expensive than mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, yet the quality will be on a par with them.

As I've said before, I think that Canon will bring out this sensor with an interchangeable lens system, probably using EF-S lenses and I reckon that many Canon DSLR users would buy one as a compact alternative when travelling etc., but then again, the GX-1 caters for 90% of what you will need anyway.

I think the Fuji X-1 pro will sell it's head off initially, but i"m sure it's sales will wane as people realise that it isn't real value for money, and for the same money, they could get something better and more useful.

Absolutely agree. Canon definitely did a great job with the G1X.

As for fuji, i reckon you're right. As with most people, the latest and the greatest always has it's appeal, but as for value for money different people different persepctive. I didn't feel the x100 was all that great a camera untill i tried it but i still wouldn't pay that kinda cash for it, i may for the x1 pro.

[I @ M]

I am one person that has always been impressed by Fuji colours and the first digital we owned was a 2 megapickle monster Fuji and the colours from it are still very good.
The X100 appealed at first as a viable travel camera but the reviews of less than adequate controls and menus put me off but if they have managed to make this new one up to par it is definitely worth considering as an all round camera. Pricing will be their biggest downfall, possibly more so in Australia than other markets as there just aren't enough "niche market" buyers here to strat with.

To be honest, I don't think that image you took is ISO 12800, esp when the ISO value on the EXIF is missing. Many sample images online from the d7000 at 12800 without any PP is not as clean as your sample image. Don't take this personally but without the EXIF information, i suspect you may have accidentally confused your images.

Ummm, I don't doubt it, Arthur isn't the type to make spurious claims, he generally doesn't get image details confused, the camera belongs to another AP member, I was there when the shot was taken and the lens in the picture belongs to me.

[I @ M]

As for the high ISO images that have been linked and others available on the net I assume that they are taken as jpeg with in camera noise reduction applied and I don't consider them to be anywhere near flagship examples of quality from an APSC sensor camera, the smearing of detail and chroma flecks in some are very ho hum. But, high ISO performance is but one small aspect of a cameras credentials and if Fuji do a good job of construction, controls and lenses then it is going to be a very good camera. To me, any body with less than an APSC sensor these days seems to be aimed at the internet fodder shooters where the small sensor shortcomings can be masked by small image size and copious amounts of processing. I for one will be watching to see how this model reviews but I won't be jumping in at the current price point.

[Mr Lensbaby]

After dragging a D700 and the trilogy around Japan and Europe for 2 months . I have now pre ordered the Xpro and 3 lens. Already have the X100 which holds it own against many DSLR including D7000 and D700. I can see that I will be very happy and wont miss carrying around 4 house bricks on my next trip this year

[arthurking83]

After dragging a D700 and the trilogy around Japan and Europe for 2 months. I have now pre ordered the Xpro and 3 lens. Already have the X100 which holds it own against many DSLR including D7000 and D700. .....

LOL!

X100 seems to produce too much moiré when the detail gets too fine which seems to show up in raw images but not jpgs(according to the review I've seen. Of course I don't have an X100 so have no personal experience with it).
Moiré is one of those aspects of photography I just don't want anything to do with any more, and I got tired of seeing it in the D70s.
It's a symptom of an overly aggressive AA filter in camera, and in the case of the X100, where the jogs come out looking fine, it implies a lot of processing is going on in camera(which to me is a negative aspect of digital photography for the most part).
I have to shoot raw in camera, and if there is then subsequently a need to process out artefacts such as moiré and other aberrations, then this makes digital photography life too tedious.
It's obvious that Fuji are catering to a more clientele that is looking for instant gratification rather than a higher degree of technical merit in the gear itself.
I bet the lenses all produce higher levels of CA and distortion which are all corrected in camera too. This is becoming the norm nowadays and it seems that lower end DSLRs are also doing this form of in camera processing too.

Also, the term 'holds its own against' may well be valid for absolute IQ in the images from the two respective cameras, but in terms of performance from the camera itself .. they are worlds apart!
You can't compare an X100 to a D7000 in terms of actual camera performance.

[Mr Lensbaby]

Arthur Photography today is summed up here


[/quote]

[I @ M]

[QUOTE=Mr Lensbaby;982672]Arthur Photography today is summed up here




So according to your view of photography the future is blank Mr. LB?

[arthurking83]

Irrespective of what is supposed to be contained in the quote, you can't sum up photography, other than for yourself!
What you consider to be an accurate summary, there will be a million other photographers that will howl in protest.

Going by the specs of the X100, it would be a totally inadequate camera body for me if I wanted one for sports or birding on a regular basis. Simply too slow in both focusing ability and frame rate, as well as buffer size.
IQ is only one aspect of a cameras performance.

At the supposed price of the X100, which is roughly equal to the D7000, I know that for my 'general purpose' usage pattern, the D7000 represents much better value for money.
If i had double that figure where it allowed me to have both a D7000 and an X100, I'd prefer the option of a D700 instead!

Due to the fact that I've never experienced this phenomenon of size of a camera or sets of lenses to be a limitation, I personally can't understand the need for these smaller, lighter and more compact camera types.