How important is it to have photoshop or similar for a beginner?

[Kym]

One more thing came to mind, sorry!

To shoot in RAW do i need to have the software that came with my camera (canon350D)? Hope the answer is no as i don't have it!

No problems... No you don't need the camera software, you do need something! Lightroom or elements (via Adobe Camera Raw) will do it. Also Picasa (free) from Google.

[fess67]

Just remember when you shoot in RAW nothing is done to the image in camera. It is an accurate representation of what the camera saw when you pressed the button. If you shoot in JPG the camera takes what it saw and applies some adjustments based on whatever settings are in the camera and discards information not required to produce the final image. RAW discards nothing but it applies nothing either. It is important to remember this the first few times you look at your RAW files because they may seem dull or soft. You need to sharpen the image and apply slight adjustments to begin to bring out the beauty of whatever you saw that made you take the shot

2 hobbies in 1...gotta love it

[verfnew]

I have seen elements 10 advertised for between $135 and $150. I agree with the poster who said that you needed something.
Vern

[nuoz]

We bought Elements 7 on E-Bay it is very good, not tooo complicated for a novice couple like my husband and myself... Saw on EBay Elements 10 cheaper price. I would never go to a store as you pay loads more. As Ricktas says what he uses is what we have learnt ourselves and it really is all you need. Maybe is there someone that would like one to, so you could half the cost and share. (just an idea)
I just wish I could use the straightening tool in Elements easier ....
cheers, Rosemary

[chris_m]

Another very good and free PC based application is Faststone. It does most of the basic editing functions very well and has a very nice batch editing process as well. It will take you about 5-10 minutes to pick up the basics.

[Andrea1]

Mmmm PS elements has been downloaded and i'm slowly learning how to use it.

When editing photos do you edit them to a standard that appeals to you rather than a "correct'' way?

[fess67]

I think go for your own appeal. If it is waaaaaaayyyyy out there people will offer advice but look around the *net. You will find so many styles and preferences.

Let me put it this way.....Picasso.......IMO what a waste of talent. I really do not like his work, maybe 2 or 3 pictures were ok. Hmmmm look at that, I just bagged out an artist that is very highly thought of!!! That's ok, it is just not my stlye.

John Constable....OMG what a talent.....hehe, see that I my taste so I think he was good.

I walked around an exhibition today. Most of the works were not to my taste. Some were (IMO) absolute crap!! Tell me how they managed to secure $15000 grants!!!

I dunno, go for it, have a bash, find your own stlye. Who knows, you may be a headliner waiting to be discovered.

I think that is the beauty of photography. There are rules....but they are there to be broken, go break them and show the world how you see it. You may get slammed or you may get a surprise. Game on

[photonet]

I started with Elements and still go back to using it for certain things as it is simple to use. Unfortunatley I am also naive enough to believe that the pictures straight from my camera should be perfect so am often disappointed.
Elements is a great product. I have also tried Gimp which is sposed to be every bit as good as PS but the learning curve was too steep for me.

[arthurking83]

.... or something similar and just as expensive!

.....

Define expensive.

I got (for Nikon) the update to CaptureNX2(from CNX1) for about $100, retail boxed with the CD and I thought that this was expensive!!

Lightroom is ok, but I still think is expensive, but you get a organisational tool(cataloguing software) in the software too.

If you're careful and can get the most important basics right on in camera, you can get away with free software(eg your camera manufacturers software).

If you shoot raw, you must process the images to get generally usable files, as most folks won't have the ability to view raw images natively, and they may not be viewable over the internet either.
So for display purposes a raw file must be processed into a viewable image anyhow. In that, you are correct.
But your comment that it's unheard of not to post process an image is not correct. It's just that 99.99999% of people choose to do so.
The camera has an ability to process an image for you, and if you understand this ability, then PP is much easier to do.

As your camera is a Canon, I'd still recommend that you download and install the Canon software called DPP.
Keep this one up to date too. It's free.
It's almost certainly the better raw file(to image file) converter too.

but this is just a guess, as I only work in Nikon files, and have no experience with Canon raw files. I did once get given a series of Canon raw images by someone and played around with DPP and it looked to be ok. This was many years back and it worked and felt a lot like Nikon's equivalent .. in price as well as features .. ViewNX which is the free Nikon raw file converter.

One thing that adobe and any other software have never impressed me with is their ability to convert and render the resultant raw file as well as the manufacturers software(in my case Nikon). But the ability to 'edit' an image is far superior.

One other 'image editor' you may want to have a look at, is a program called FSViewer.

You said before that it was taking 7 hours to download Elements, and that's not because it's an 'amazing program', but more so because it's basically bloated with stuff that you may well never ever use.
FSViewer by comparison may take 5 - 10 mins(it's only 4 Mb!! ), can also be run from a portable USB thumb drive if you need it too(but you need to download a special version of it) and has some OK image editing tool available.

One thing I'd really recommend for you not to do is to get involved with actions.. or more accurately other people's actions.
This is only for the purpose of individuality, or creating your own look in your own way or style.
Far too many so called professional photographers use available actions, which basically dilutes the gene pool of photographic ability.
In effect all you're doing is not processing the image yourself, but getting someone else to do it for you in an automated manner.
I'm not saying don't use actions, but instead of using canned actions to achieve a desired look, build your own actions instead.
If you have the time and patience learn, how to build your own actions by first learning the ability to edit more efficiently and then saving those edit steps as actions.

In CaptureNX2 we call them batch edits, where a series of steps is saved as a batch lot and applied to an image. This is different to batch processing where you collectively apply a series of edit steps to multiple images too, and batch edit steps can be applied to images in a batch process job. It kind of makes more sense to me this way as it really all falls under the same umbrella of multiple step processing in a single click.
Actions is simply another way to call batch processing and almost all other software has this ability. It's just that it's called something else.

Anyway, the most important thing to take note of, is that before you spend money on software that you may think you need .. it's to understand why you need this software.

If it's for the simple task of loading a series of batch edit steps that you liked the look of in someone else's images, then for that CS is by far the best way to go, due to it's popularity(more actions available for it).
But remember that all good software will have this ability too, it's just not as popular and hence harder to find those batch processes.
If you want the software for the purpose of learning to edit images, then in reality it makes no difference as to which software you decide to use, your ability to learn the nuances of the software is more important.

Oh! nearly forgot .. as well as the GIMP, there is also Paint.net that is also free and quite easy to use. That's Paint.net, not MS's paint which comes in Windows by default.

[Andrea1]

Thanks for the great advice arthurking.

This is my understanding of actions, please tell me if i'm on the right track.
Basically the ''recipe'''you used and have saved that give your pics a certain look????
That's my very simplistic explanation of what i think actions are.

I wouldn't even dream of attempting this for a long time!

[DoubleJ]

Hi All

Newbee here ... to ausPhoto and photography. Thanks for all the great posts, especially @fess67 that was super, and Rick the notes on Lightroom and Elements.

I'm just a dad taking family snaps, which at this stage is lots of sporting stuff.

Don't laugh but I have enjoyed iPhoto and making slideshows and books for Granddad. I mainly just crop and lift shadows etc as with kids and footballs and animals, I felt just getting something in the frame was a great achievement. And now this Canon EOS 550D camera I've had for a year has lifted the quality ... and quantity. I've one iPhoto library of 24,000, I guess you can guess what happened next.

So managing the library and a bit of cropping and shadows work etc is really all I'm up to at this stage. But seeing what fess did with the heron gets me dreaming.

Still I come away from a football game with 300 photos but I'm really running into issues about being able to just find the good ones. And it might not be a great shot but if it has managed to capture some kid's face with a halfway decent activity ie not missing a tackle, then the other parent may think it's great.

I went to a demo of Apple's Aperture and liked the management aspects (compared to iPhoto) and in the editing area being able to adjust areas within the photo seems just what I need. But the comments on Apple's review section leave one iffy. It's ~ $80 and integrates with iPhoto so I can still do the book making.

So my question, does any one have any suggestions re going the Aperture route (I use Apple machines having spent a career supporting Microsoft apps in engineering so please ... I just don't understand the Apple bashing craze at the moment). I looked at RAW but I just work in the jpg large it takes up too much space when content rather than quality is my objective (at this stage).

Anyway thanks in advance. JJ PS taking the footy photos helps me reduce my "encouragement" from the sidelines.

[soundfanz]

A good thread, and plenty for me to ponder as a relative newbie when it comes to photo editing and available software.

Chris

[Oceansailor]

Has anyone used Gimp or any of the free editing tools that can be downloaded off the web?

[WhoDo]

Has anyone used Gimp or any of the free editing tools that can be downloaded off the web?

Actually The GIMP is all I use for post-processing. Does everything I need and then some. I can thoroughly recommend it if you can't afford Elements or Lightroom. It can take some getting used to, but its biggest advantage is that it works in very similar ways to Photoshop, and many of PS' plug-ins have been ported to GIMP. There is even a program for GIMP that let's you run PS plug-ins directly (i.e. without any other coding or porting).

PS. Match GIMP with UfRaw plug-in and Faststone Viewer and you've got a complete workflow solution. Only restriction is you are limited to 8-bit colour unless you use GEGL and even then the output will still be 8-bit colour. Doesn't bother me though.

[ScottM]

Same here as WhoDo; had never heard of Faststone until a couple days ago but about to check it out...

[andrewda]

Hi Andrea, I have been using Lightroom for a couple of years now, this is great for cataloguing images and for making adjustments to images without too much training. There are also many sites that have free video tutorials for lightroom.

PS. I grew up in Vermont.

Regards, Andrew

[luepit]

Read throught all of this....THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR WISDOME AND EXPERIENCE....AND SHARING.

[ricktas]

So my question, does any one have any suggestions re going the Aperture route (I use Apple machines having spent a career supporting Microsoft apps in engineering so please ... I just don't understand the Apple bashing craze at the moment). I looked at RAW but I just work in the jpg large it takes up too much space when content rather than quality is my objective (at this stage).

Anyway thanks in advance. JJ PS taking the footy photos helps me reduce my "encouragement" from the sidelines.

Aperture is basically the Apple equivalent of Adobe's Lightroom. It is a good product and well worth considering as an alternative.

[ricktas]

For those starting out with post processing, this article I wrote quite some time ago, is worth reading and considering : http://www.ausphotography.net.au/for...read.php?77740

[kmets]

Will definitely look at that article. I have Photoshop and have absolutely no clue how to do anything with it!

DoubleJ, been there, last season took hundreds of pics at football games. Some of them weren't great, but kids love seeing a pic of themselves making a tackle, catch, etc. So what I did was made a *removed, members with less than 50 posts cannot promote commercial enterprises* and posted all of them. I gave all the kids and parents the web address so they could all see them. Football pics are so fun to take!