I think I just sold my soul...

[camerasnoop]

Some of you blokes firing Amy up should take a deep breath. All she has to do is ring the photographer and tell her that she is having second thoughts and sort it out that way. Posting it all over the web isn't going to help you at all.

I note you said you have two weddings booked in October, Amy. I also see your gear list below your signature. Is that what you are going to do the two weddings with, and are you doing them alone?

[WhoDo]

All she has to do is ring the photographer and tell her that she is having second thoughts and sort it out that way. Posting it all over the web isn't going to help you at all.

I agree with this, but only in part.

If Amy is being paid then the 'tog has the right to set the terms. She is NOT being paid so the terms should be Amy's; after all, she's the one donating her time to help and support this 'tog who originally asked for help from Amy's friend! It shouldn't be a case of you're not the one I asked, or your camera's don't meet my standards.

By all means ring and say you've had second thoughts on the "deal" since you weren't given any option or input. Say you'll do it for free with YOUR cards and the 'tog pays for any she uses. Alternatively you want assistant rates as a minimum and her terms for cards etc will apply. Can't be fairer than that.

Any 'tog that wants to use your efforts without paying either in money or kind is exploiting you, Amy, pure and simple. JMHO.

[camerasnoop]

Any 'tog that wants to use your efforts without paying either in money or kind is exploiting you, Amy, pure and simple. JMHO.

I'd agree with that. Terms though need to be agreed though, even if one party says "Take it or leave it". It still needs to be agreed by the other party to be a deal. Don't be afraid to say no.

[AmyK]

Unfortunately, 'business image' goes a long way in photography - where the gear you use is very important too. The advent of the internet and online consumerism and reviews have allowed the average client to have an idea of what is good or not, whats new and old, what works well and what doesnt.

Having 2x Canon 400Ds is fine and all, you can even do internationally acclaimed photos on them if need be and easily done. But to be able to 'appeal' to clients an upgrade is inevitable in the near future. Real estate agents drive flashy cars to 'show' their clients that they are successful in their field of expertise and gives one the impression that they know what they are doing. When they could easily rock up in a 1.5 litre Civic as it gets great mileage and reliable little bugga! Wouldnt want to know what the client is thinking on first impression though.

Maybe the client knows that the 400D does not perform that great with high ISO from 1600 and above, even with fast lenses, she may or may not know a lot of things that we dont give her credit for etc.

Either way, she sounds like the Third Reich, so my advice is to just not do it at all, if she isnt happy with you now, will take a lot to make her happy later on anyway.

Yeah, I'm planning on upgrading as soon as I can afford it. I did have money saved up for a new body...and then we got our power bill...nearly $1500 for the quarter

Some of you blokes firing Amy up should take a deep breath. All she has to do is ring the photographer and tell her that she is having second thoughts and sort it out that way. Posting it all over the web isn't going to help you at all.

I note you said you have two weddings booked in October, Amy. I also see your gear list below your signature. Is that what you are going to do the two weddings with, and are you doing them alone?

Yes, that gear is what I am doing the two weddings with, and I will be doing them alone [as sole photographer] but I have organized my partner to come and help out [he's into photography too to some extent] and the couples are happy with that arrangement. Both couples have had my folio presented to them, so they have seen what I am capable of and they obviously like my work, otherwise they would not have hired me. As far as I see it, if they're happy with the outcomes from previous shoots with the same gear, then it's not going to be a drama that I use the current gear I have. I do have extra bits and pieces not listed in my signature, such as reflectors, wireless trigger for off camera flash etc.

[camerasnoop]

Okay, but there is a saying that you should take on-board. It is "Two is one, and one is none." You have two bodies, but one of everything else. Borrow a spare flash and a back-up lens too. A standard zoom would be good as a back-up. See if you can get a f2.8 lens as well. Even if you leave it locked in the boot of the car, it may save your butt if something breaks. I have dropped cameras and lenses, and had flashes fry on weddings. Stuff happens, but if you're prepared, you can keep going and finish the job. Good luck with your dilemma too.

[Tommo1965]

OP

I think you need to ring the person back..tell him/her that you have been made to feel uncomfortable and the suggestion that you dont have a reliable camera or the knowledge to take images at the wedding has made you reconsider your original "yes", and change it to a "no thanks"

its irrelevant that you might want the experience...or that your friend has requested you do a favour , the way I see it is your very pissed off, and to just eat it up is not a good thing to do to your self .

for you own sake { thats all that really matters} let the person know how they have made you feel...life really is to short

[AmyK]

Okay, but there is a saying that you should take on-board. It is "Two is one, and one is none." You have two bodies, but one of everything else. Borrow a spare flash and a back-up lens too. A standard zoom would be good as a back-up. See if you can get a f2.8 lens as well. Even if you leave it locked in the boot of the car, it may save your butt if something breaks. I have dropped cameras and lenses, and had flashes fry on weddings. Stuff happens, but if you're prepared, you can keep going and finish the job. Good luck with your dilemma too.

I've got a few back up lenses that belong to my partner, and a flash that belongs to my parents that I can use as well as my equipment. One of the 400D's is actually his, but he hasn't used it for over a year, so I've pretty much claimed it.

Just had a thought...my parents just bought a 5D MKII to go with their 550D. I should just borrow their gear and rock up with the 5D and 550D!

[camerasnoop]

Just had a thought...my parents just bought a 5D MKII to go with their 550D. I should just borrow their gear and rock up with the 5D and 550D!

Yes, but you better get familiar with them first.

[ricktas]

The title of this thread was "I think I just sold me soul..."

Nup, you gave it away for free!

[KeeFy]

Yes, but you better get familiar with them first.

You'll need at least a couple of hours to do some shooting with the bodies to get accustomed to quirks and AF speed etc. Going from a crop to a FF, there is a main difference in FOV but the extra stop of DOF does change the composure of the images. Also factoring in the differences in a bright view finder, VF cropping etc. So best to have the gear a little earlier.

[Stingray]

wasn't sure whether to weigh in or not .. but I will lob 2c worth in like everyone else
Not having being in this dilemma (yet ..lol.. but have 1/2 made the decision to ask to do some work exp with some photogs i know) , IMO when they said the bit.. "..and she said that she wouldn't pay me because she couldn't be guaranteed good photos from it" then they would have been "nicer" (LOL) to say why she doesn't think they are up to her quality, and maybe offer you the experience and to pay for any images used

[bricat]

Perhaps you should ask your friend what this photographer is like. The photographer sounds very demanding and will only let you shoot when she says you can. So if I say jump you say how high. So really is there much experience to gain. And are you happy to work in that type of environment. If yes then take the job but if you do have reservations then pass. After all this is YOUR decision to do it or not. You are not compelled to do it. From the sounds of it your answer is not to do it. (perhaps say you have another engagement on that day you forgot about) Your happiness and piece of mind are the utmost importance. good luck with your dilemma.

[nightbringer]

From what I have read, if it was me would refuse to deal with someone like that ... it sounds like you're being taken for a ride if all you get is experience, and if the 'professional' shoots in auto/manual and refuses to spare 10 minutes to look at your work and is trying to exert so much control over you without paying you. It sounds like you don't get any of the benefit besides experience, and even that may depend on the events of the day.

Like bricat said, you have to put your own happiness and satisfaction first.

[rookie]

Swap cards (use your card) and at the end of the shoot hand back her empty card and say you are right the 400 dosnt take a good photo.

[Karl]

What is the experience that you will get from her - if you can't find any info on her or have seen her work how do you know her work is any good??

I would be more worried that she isn't that good and if she stuffs up the shoot she will blame her assistant (aka you), also sounds like a paranoid control freak so I doubt that she will be very enjoyable to work with anyway. But since you have made the commitment to work with her then I am of the belief that you should go through with it - however, I would use my own kit - incld your own memory cards - and shoot the way you feel comfortable with and at the end of the shoot email her the low res shots to allow her to choose which ones she wants.

Karl

[AmyK]

Okay, so here's what went down today;

I did end up getting paid $150, because she decided that she actually did like my photos once she saw some that I'd taken.

I didn't get any of the files, but she's going to send me through some of mine...as to which ones I don't know what I'll end up with, but it's better than none.

I learnt that some wedding photographers aren't as good as their reputation...she had no idea how to get young children to pose for her, so I did all the young kids photos [thank you 2 years of santa photography]. And the bride wanted more candid, happy type photos, yet the photographer was trying to get people to stand and pose exactly how she said, and would get grumpy when the moved slightly.

The bride pulled me aside at the end, and got my details, so she can pass it on to friends etc. and she also said she would have preferred for me to have been doing all the photos as I was so much more relaxed.

So all in all, it was a good learning experience, I'm glad I ended up getting compensation for my time & petrol, and I think I did well with building up rapport with the clients

[crf529]

I think you got the best possible outcome from that situation.

Your name will get spread for the right reasons, you'll get some portfolio stuff, you got paid AND you were able to learn a bit about keeping the client happy through her mistakes! Winner!

[fess67]

yep. sounds like you did well. time to chill, have a beer (wine) and enjoy the win <silently yells.....go the cats!!!> hmmm did anyone hear that???

[arthurking83]

......

I learnt that some wedding photographers aren't as good as their reputation...she had no idea how to get young children to pose for her, so I did all the young kids photos [thank you 2 years of santa photography]. And the bride wanted more candid, happy type photos, yet the photographer was trying to get people to stand and pose exactly how she said, and would get grumpy when the moved slightly.

The bride pulled me aside at the end, and got my details, so she can pass it on to friends etc. and she also said she would have preferred for me to have been doing all the photos as I was so much more relaxed.

.....

I originally missed the thread, and have only just seen it.

Seriously, sometimes you just have to say stuff it, and do it for nothing.
You know the saying .. what you lose in the swings, you gain in the roundabouts ... I'd have given the $150 bucks back, and simply used the opportunity to network the potential customer base available to you at the wedding.

If you are confident of your abilities, then you would understand that sometimes you have to give a little to gain a little bit more, and had you achieved two possible sales .. say of approx $1-1.5K(hopefully more) each from this excursion, then the lack of payment would have been insignificant by comparison.

That the photographer gave you $150 compensation is simply a bonus.

Of course sometimes it's not a good option to give away your time fro nothing, because there is a higher probability that you will get zero in return for it.. say the recent Tennis Australia debacle, where TA were offering work to any prospective slave.. As if TA would then come back and offer the prospective slave a proper job!? .. yeah, maybe but a far reduced rate to the person currently doing the job, because they now know how desperate the slave is to do the work... etc, etc ..

The point of this thread is that sometimes it is a wise choice to give something away and expect nothing in return .. as long as there is scope to further your future from it ion some way.

Each situation needs to be viewed in isolation and the person in the dilemma in question needs to weigh up if there is any advantage in working for nothing.


Now the initiative is upon you to follow up with this successful rapport with the customers. Don't wait for them to come to you. The must be a subtle way in which you can maintain contact with any prospective customers or the bride from the wedding.

Maybe you could offer here a personalised portrait day for her.. or whatever, whether free or paid or whatever.
If you have confidence in your ability then you may need to market yourself a bit more vigorously, but always maintaining a level of restraint.


anyhow.. good luck with it all.

[agb]

Okay, so here's what went down today;

I did end up getting paid $150, because she decided that she actually did like my photos once she saw some that I'd taken.

I didn't get any of the files, but she's going to send me through some of mine...as to which ones I don't know what I'll end up with, but it's better than none.

I learnt that some wedding photographers aren't as good as their reputation...she had no idea how to get young children to pose for her, so I did all the young kids photos [thank you 2 years of santa photography]. And the bride wanted more candid, happy type photos, yet the photographer was trying to get people to stand and pose exactly how she said, and would get grumpy when the moved slightly.

The bride pulled me aside at the end, and got my details, so she can pass it on to friends etc. and she also said she would have preferred for me to have been doing all the photos as I was so much more relaxed.

So all in all, it was a good learning experience, I'm glad I ended up getting compensation for my time & petrol, and I think I did well with building up rapport with the clients

Sounds to me as though you finished up with a very good result.
And some work might come your way.
All good .
Soul is probably comfortable with the price.