I think I just sold my soul...

[AmyK]

Meh, not overly, but it gives me some extra practice for the few weddings I do have coming up that I am being paid for.

I just don't want my name as a photographer to suffer if I do back out.

[KeeFy]

I would take the gig, but since she's not paying you, request to keep the photos as well to use for your portfolio. Everyone wins. You get experience, she gets photos to give to the clients.

[AmyK]

I would take the gig, but since she's not paying you, request to keep the photos as well to use for your portfolio. Everyone wins. You get experience, she gets photos to give to the clients.

She's quite adamant that I'll be using her memory cards...

[crf529]

She can only be so adamant for $0....

[Analog6]

That is absolutely outrageous, she is using you. An assistant is paid for the day even if they don't take any photos.

However, on the plus side you'll get experience of how she operates and what shots she takes and how she manages the guests/wedding party. Take notes, keep alert, and hand out your card to anyone who asks for it.

[camerasnoop]

I really don't understand all the discussion. You discussed it with her. She put her terms. You accepted. If you now tell her you're not interested, then fine, but if you leave it too late for her to find someone else, she WILL spread the word that you're unreliable.

I personally wouldn't ask people to work for no pay, but them I also wouldn't expect to work for no pay myself. I would provide cards and expect them before you went home. I don't like NOT having all the images at home and backed-up.

I shoot for other people from time to time, and I also have others shoot for me occasionally. Unfortunately when you hand over the images, it is a bit like taking a pee in a wetsuit. You get a nice warm feeling, but only those closest to you will notice.

[fillum]

Did you ask her what her issues were with the 400D, or have you just assumed she is an equipment snob? Perhaps the timing / location requires a level of high-ISO performance that she feels might be at the limits of the 400D?

It does seem odd however that if she feels the 400D is not up to the task, that she still offered you the gig anyway (although unpaid). Surely paying / not-paying won't have any effect on the quality of the images.

Personally if I'd already accepted the job I'd go through with it. However no point going through with it if you are not going to be in the right frame of mind to do a good job. If that's the case give her a call and discuss it honestly and professionally.

I hope it works out well for you...



Cheers.

[Paul G]

I'd tell her where to go Amy. How clued up is she really if she thinks it's the camera body that makes a quality shot....
IMO it's more to do with the person holding the camera, the lens used and the said person's ability to use light, than any other factors.

Interesting to see if she's a JPG or RAW / Manual vs Auto snapper. Oh no there I go I've started that argument again!

[crf529]

I really don't understand all the discussion. You discussed it with her. She put her terms. You accepted.

It isn't that simple. She didn't simply state her terms, she changed them.

AmyK contacted the 'tog under the expectation she was taking a job as a PAID assistant/second shooter. However in the midst of the discussion, the would-be employer changed her terms (for no justifiable reason). Doing so whilst talking to someone on the bottom end of an experience/power gradient places them under greater pressure to accept terms or conditions they don't believe they have time to question, process or even consider. How else do you think many workplace employer-employee exploitations are able to take place?

Just look at the wording used: "until she asked what camera's I have [2x Canon 400D bodies] and she said that she wouldn't pay me because she couldn't be guaranteed good photos from it"

There's no discussion of change of terms there. That's the 'tog using her position to pressure the change onto the more junior assistant, as if AmyK has already taken the job as a result of contacting her.

Unprofessional.

[AmyK]

I'd tell her where to go Amy. How clued up is she really if she thinks it's the camera body that makes a quality shot....
IMO it's more to do with the person holding the camera, the lens used and the said person's ability to use light, than any other factors.

Interesting to see if she's a JPG or RAW / Manual vs Auto snapper. Oh no there I go I've started that argument again!

Well, that's another can of worms. When I was on the phone to her, she asked me to shoot in auto, because she wanted the camera to be in control of the exposure, not me, because I 'might not know how to expose properly'. She also admitted that most of the time she shoots in auto as well. Wouldn't surprise me if she shoots JPG as well. I'm going to be shooting my images in RAW and manual modes [full manual, shutter priority and aperture priority] regardless, because that's what I deem to be a professional quality for post production to give a quality product to the client.

[kiwi]

she sounds like a FAUXPHOTOGRAPHER

[AmyK]

It isn't that simple. She didn't simply state her terms, she changed them.

AmyK contacted the 'tog under the expectation she was taking a job as a PAID assistant/second shooter. However in the midst of the discussion, the would-be employer changed her terms (for no justifiable reason). Doing so whilst talking to someone on the bottom end of an experience/power gradient places them under greater pressure to accept terms or conditions they don't believe they have time to question, process or even consider. How else do you think many workplace employer-employee exploitations are able to take place?

Just look at the wording used: "until she asked what camera's I have [2x Canon 400D bodies] and she said that she wouldn't pay me because she couldn't be guaranteed good photos from it"

There's no discussion of change of terms there. That's the 'tog using her position to pressure the change onto the more junior assistant, as if AmyK has already taken the job as a result of contacting her.

Unprofessional.

Exactly. You've summed up my previous posts incredibly well.

And she hasn't even bothered looking at my folio to see what I am capable of. I asked her on the phone if she had seen any of my work, and she said that she didn't need to look, because I would be 100% under her command, so will take the images she wants me to and no others.

[crf529]

I can only see more frustration than learning coming from this 'job'...

[gw.toad]

She's quite adamant that I'll be using her memory cards...

would her mem cards alter the image count on your camera I read it somewhere that they will

[fabian628]

did she even ask you want lenses you use? Wedding isnt exactly a place where fast fps is required like sports where the camera plays a more important part.

I would much rather someone shooting a fast 35/50 and 135L with a 400D than a 18-135mm on a 60D

[kiwi]

maybe ask if she'd like to assist you

[JM Tran]

Unfortunately, 'business image' goes a long way in photography - where the gear you use is very important too. The advent of the internet and online consumerism and reviews have allowed the average client to have an idea of what is good or not, whats new and old, what works well and what doesnt.

Having 2x Canon 400Ds is fine and all, you can even do internationally acclaimed photos on them if need be and easily done. But to be able to 'appeal' to clients an upgrade is inevitable in the near future. Real estate agents drive flashy cars to 'show' their clients that they are successful in their field of expertise and gives one the impression that they know what they are doing. When they could easily rock up in a 1.5 litre Civic as it gets great mileage and reliable little bugga! Wouldnt want to know what the client is thinking on first impression though.

Maybe the client knows that the 400D does not perform that great with high ISO from 1600 and above, even with fast lenses, she may or may not know a lot of things that we dont give her credit for etc.

Either way, she sounds like the Third Reich, so my advice is to just not do it at all, if she isnt happy with you now, will take a lot to make her happy later on anyway.

[Paul G]

Good points here Jackie.

[gw.toad]

Unfortunately, 'business image' goes a long way in photography - where the gear you use is very important too. The advent of the internet and online consumerism and reviews have allowed the average client to have an idea of what is good or not, whats new and old, what works well and what doesnt.

Having 2x Canon 400Ds is fine and all, you can even do internationally acclaimed photos on them if need be and easily done. But to be able to 'appeal' to clients an upgrade is inevitable in the near future. Real estate agents drive flashy cars to 'show' their clients that they are successful in their field of expertise and gives one the impression that they know what they are doing. When they could easily rock up in a 1.5 litre Civic as it gets great mileage and reliable little bugga! Wouldnt want to know what the client is thinking on first impression though.

Maybe the client knows that the 400D does not perform that great with high ISO from 1600 and above, even with fast lenses, she may or may not know a lot of things that we dont give her credit for etc.

Either way, she sounds like the Third Reich, so my advice is to just not do it at all, if she isnt happy with you now, will take a lot to make her happy later on anyway.

Is her 40D that much better then the 400ds....I think her 40D could be 5/7 years old doesn't sound to flash to me

[JM Tran]

Is her 40D that much better then the 400ds....I think her 40D could be 5/7 years old doesn't sound to flash to me

that would also depend on yours, or mine or her definition of what better is. A 40D isnt THAT old, came out end of 2007, not even 4 yrs old yet, and 1 yr younger than the 400D.