Canon Australia updates RRP

[Xenedis]

I agree that it's completely unfair to go into a B&M, seek advice from a salesperson, play with the gear, and then go home and order it online from a much less expensive supplier. It's rather horrid behaviour, actually.

I also agree that one shouldn't expect the B&M and online supplier to be on the same playing field when there are differentiators such as knowledgeable sales staff, goods at which one can look, etc.

What the B&M retail industry needs to realise very quickly is that people's shopping behaviour has changed.

There is a market of buyers, like myself, where service, staff advice and the ability to look at the goods isn't as important as procuring it quickly and cheaply, or isn't important at all.

If the B&M retail industry doesn't make some changes and adjust to the 21st century in line with consumer behaviour, it's going to end up high and dry. It's already happening.

B&Ms will soon enough become a niche market, and some kinds of stores will cease to exist altogether.

[rellik666]

I can't see the manufacturers changing there ways any time soon, as at the end of the day you are buying their product regardless of whether it is local or grey. It the distributers that need to change their ways and as long as they are making a profit they won't change.

Australia has been too slow to jump on the internet band wagon. As a consumer I want choice, availability and a good price. Show me an excellent website that is Aus based? I know of many in the UK and the US, yes they have economies of scale, but they also do what they say on tin, they have what I want, they provide advice and they deliver! There is one website here that I think is great, and because they deliver next day, don't charge huge fees for delivery and have a good range of products I use it. It isn't the cheapest, but it delivers.

If retail fees are 30% of the cost, why are people not setting up websites?

I also agree with the above about people trying things in stores....I won't do that I think it is wrong. If I need the advice of a store person I will at least give them the chance to sell it to me. And if it is something I know I am not going to be able to get at a good price, I wont bother.

The other thing is that stores are complaining about the cost of imports v GM, that if I had to pay full retail, I wouldn't be buying it. It isn't a choice of what shall I pay, it is choice of whether I have it or not.

[Bennymiata]

One other thing to consider is that many of the websites offer products that they do not have in stock, but merely order it on an as needs basis.
If you order an XYZ form them, they then get on the blower to their distributor and get on ein, then send itto you, so they don't have to keep anything in stock, therefore no big, expensive warehouse and no stock they have to put money up for to buy, so obviously their prices and margins can be lower.

I deal with a couple of websites, and that's exactly how they work.
I give them a sample of the product, they photograph it and put it up on their site, then when they get an order, they order it from me.

If too many people come into stores to suck the salesman's knowledge etc with out buying anything, it may get to the stage where retailers will charge you just to come through the door.
I know of one retailer in the US (they sell expensive mens wear) that charges $1500 to come through the door, and it is entry by appointment only.

Do we really want camera stores here to be like that?

Don't missunderstand me, I buy from OS, and I also buy locally so I have a foot in both camps.

[Xenedis]

One other thing to consider is that many of the websites offer products that they do not have in stock, but merely order it on an as needs basis.

That's something important to consider.

The two reputable online suppliers with which I've bought the majority of my gear, both state on a product page if they have it in stock.

When I bought my 300/2.8L IS back in 2006, I rang my supplier, asked if he had it in stock (he did), and then wandered up the road to collect it.

You may find that many of the online suppliers keep common items, but when it comes to a very specialised lens which doesn't sell in high numbers (eg, a 600/4 or something equally exotic), it's best to ask if it's actually in stock.

Bear in mind also that if you want a less-common item (like a 300mm prime), even a B&M will have to order it.

I went through that some years ago. I wanted a 300/4L IS, and the B&M had to order it. It took over a month to arrive from Canon Australia, which from memory had to import it from Canon in Japan. Had I purchased it online, I would have had it within days.

[KeeFy]

Oh the car price thing has been on my mind for a while now. I'll understand if it's like Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand where the taxes are extremely high. But in Aussie there is really no excuse. What i feel that's odd as well is how a 2nd hand car retains it's value so much. In the mentioned countries, prices takes easily a 10% hit to almost a 20% hit instantly the moment it's delivered to the customer! Over here it's miniscule by proportion.

On the flipside of it all, there are B&M retailers that are doing pretty decently due to their ability to adapt to current economic climates. It's the ones who have the "support local" beliefs that will fold.

[Scotty72]

I don't remember going into a shop to try on shoes (or whatever) with the intention of going to the Internet but, if people do it, so what if they do. Customers are under no legal or moral obligation to buy from a shop where they touch and feel. Do we feel sorry for my mate the mortgage broker, who has plenty of people have him come over, go through the sums etc but, then get the mortgage from another provider. Car salesmen would suffer the same fate as would anybody who provides a good or service for sale.

Really, it's business : you bait the hook and sometimes the fish gets away with the bait (I can see fishermen complaining to the ACCC about the behavior of fish).

The retailers should not be whinging about these customers; they should be asking themselves the hard question - why did they let a prospect get away.

There have been plenty of times I've walked into a shop with no intention of buying but, due to good salesmanship, I've walked out with a lot less $$$ in my pocket. The PMA exhibition was one eg. I had no intention of buying but, a sales guy dazzled me with a product - spent time convincing me.

SOLD!

[Xenedis]

I don't remember going into a shop to try on shoes (or whatever) with the intention of going to the Internet but, if people do it, so what if they do. Customers are under no legal or moral obligation to buy from a shop where they touch and feel.

Of course not, but if one has consciously decided in advance to buy online, but goes into a store to slurp knowledge and service from a salesperson and play with the toys, then it's behaviour I'd consider to be unfair and reprehensible.

While I am not loyal to B&Ms and while I advocate buying online from a cost-based perspective, I don't believe it's fair to exploit B&M salespeople by engaging in the sort of behaviour I described.

There have been plenty of times I've walked into a shop with no intention of buying but, due to good salesmanship, I've walked out with a lot less $$$ in my pocket. The PMA exhibition was one eg. I had no intention of buying but, a sales guy dazzled me with a product - spent time convincing me.

SOLD!

You really don't need that UV filter Scotty.

[Scotty72]

Of course not, but if one has consciously decided in advance to buy online, but goes into a store to slurp knowledge and service from a salesperson and play with the toys, then it's behaviour I'd consider to be unfair and reprehensible.

Completely disagree

I might walk into Store A with NO intention of buying from there. I could be just killing time whilst waiting for an appointment or, I could just be using them to drive down Store B's price.

Are they reprehensible things to do? No. It's called shopping around - browsing - life.

While I am not loyal to B&Ms and while I advocate buying online from a cost-based perspective, I don't believe it's fair to exploit B&M salespeople by engaging in the sort of behaviour I described.

You are not exploiting them: you are presenting them with a potential customer which, if they are good, will hook.

[Xenedis]

I might walk into Store A with NO intention of buying from there. I could be just killing time whilst waiting for an appointment or, I could just be using them to drive down Store B's price.

If you're playing off one B&M against another on price, I see no problem with that, as it's a relatively level playing field.

But if you've already decided upon an item, have specifically decided to buy it cheaply online, but visit a store to play with it or leech information from the sales staff, then IMO that's grossly unfair.

[Scotty72]

If you're playing off one B&M against another on price, I see no problem with that, as it's a relatively level playing field.

But if you've already decided upon an item, have specifically decided to buy it cheaply online, but visit a store to play with it or leech information from the sales staff, then IMO that's grossly unfair.

Retailers complaining about the internet is just like the candlestick maker complaining about Edison's light bulb.

[peterb666]

You really don't need that UV filter Scotty.

The large ones make reasonable drinks coasters.

[Scotty72]

The large ones make reasonable drinks coasters.

Excellent, single-use frisbees too

[Mark L]

So a while back I decided to buy a 550D, then the 60D arrived. Went into two major retailers to touch and feel. 60D felt good (550D to small). At that stage I had no idea about buying on w.w.w. but had sussed prises a little.
First retailer. I started saying "I'm going to buy the 60D, I've a bit of an idea of online prices............." He walked away saying"we can't compete with them, more overheads........" He walked away before I could finish saying I'd be quite happy to pay more to support Aussie business, get over warranty worries. Sale lost.
Second "normal" major retailer. I simply said "I'm going to buy the 60D from somewhere, what's the best price you can give me, body only, please?" Goes and checks his computer, and says " can't sell it body only, has to by sold with lens!" Sale lost.
We don't visit Sydney, so the w.w.w. is now our B&M. The best price Aust. online people still don't seem to be able to compete with people like B&H.
I blame the manufactures for the high prices.

[fess67]

not to tell you how to run your business, but did you ever think that whatever you were running out of a living room sized space @ 10,000 a month was not a very viable option?

No not really. Next time you go to a shopping centre food court have a look at the size of the premises. Most are pretty small. It was not viable for my business and of the other 11 stores there, 3 have closed and the others are suffering with tales of lost homes, divorces, bankruptcies etc. Just one of lifes learning opportunities I guess.

[enduro]

7D body only is still marked for $2399 on the Canon Website.

[Doninoz]

7D body only is still marked for $2399 on the Canon Website.

My distributor pricelist is showing current reseller price of $1,939.30...If I were to sell it at Canon's price I would make $459.70 and Canon would tell me as a reseller that that is a good margin!!! They can't see past margins for resellers so that's why they justify the price. The only thing is, I'm not going to be able to sell it at that price or even the cost price??? So I, like other resellers are in the same boat, we are captive to Canon's own high margins.

[Bennymiata]

That's a very small margin for the retailer.
In my business, the minimum markup is 50%, so if they buy something from me for say $100, they sell it for $200.

Department stores on the other hand buy my stuff for say $35.00, and one of them sell it for $100 (a 65% markup - that is the 65% is the profit they make out of the RRP).

The other major department stores makes a little less, 62%.
In other trades, the markup is even higher.

How can a B&M retailer work on such low morgins, unless you are selling the stuff hand over fist?

[KeeFy]

http://www.canon.com.sg/personal/pro...anguageCode=EN

Interesting that in Singapore, the RRP is the same. $2399. Singapore has 7% GST. BUT! AUDSGD is about 1.3. So that makes buying from Canon Singapore cheaper. $1927 from today's mid market FX. Which is cheaper than the distributor's price.

Go figure who's pockets are being lined when you buy locally.

So it comes down to a conundrum. Buy locally and line pockets of the big boys? Buy grey and kill the B&Ms?

[bricat]

Bennymiata ' In my business, the minimum markup is 50%, so if they buy something from me for say $100, they sell it for $200.' Sorry mate but that is 100% markup and 50%profit. Many people get fazed between the mark-up profit %. I work (sometimes) in an industry where they allow for 50% mark up hence 33% profit. When you take out costs of around 20% you are left with a very small margin. Great if you are turning over 10 million dollars etc. And who wants to work 7 days a week and 15 hours a day for that. The effort sometimes does not justify the rewards. And the manufacturer still makes their profit. And they work on huge margin. But they also have huge investments and costs too.

[balwoges]

I have always bought my cameras from Australian stores and my lenses from B&H. I don't visit shops to try out the lenses and then buy overseas as I think that's adding insult to injury to the retail store. I thoroughly research lenses online before I buy and as yet have not been disappointed with my choice.

I know Australian stores have to pay rent etc however IMHO it doesn't justify the markup on lenses. I was looking out for a price drop when the Australian $ went up and it just didn't happen.