Are you a sport & event photographer ? Join SEPA

[kiwi]

William, I'm not ignoring at all, I've made every change last week discussed, I've not had time last two days to make changes as recently suggested, *removed - unnecessary comment* give me a chance. I've said all the stuff in the Facebook page is draft and that only friends on Facebook and here really are having input

I appreciate input, I do

Just give me some time to work through the things you are raising because you're the only one that is so far and I really am taking it all onboard

[kiwi]

And I've also said that membership etc doesn't start until September to give me a chance to do exactly that

[Longshots]

I've noted your points Darren.



But its hard to communicate with someone who says one thing and is doing the other.

Here's my issue - you posted this:

If so, I'd like to invite you to join SEPA

http://www.facebook.com/groups/sepaustralia

So I joined. Then 18 hours ago - I asked you why I now needed to fill in an application form - for you to assess, if I copied my driving licence etc, and you replied that I didnt need to as the form said that AIPP members didnt need to do that - which it doesnt. And I said that to you, and you said you would address that - which you didnt.

Please read your own SEPA stuff carefully. No where on your SEPA website does it state that membership doesnt start till September - in fact is states

"The mission of SEPA is to create a society or collective of trusted photographers throughout Australia that are in the business (either part-time or full-time) of providing photography to all levels of sport and to all sorts of events, public or private. The public has every right to expect a certain standard of care when engaging with a photographer. I would hope that if the public engages a photographer who is a member of SEPA then they will be able to trust that photographer. Where children are involved this is also important."

There is a clear inference that the organisation is current, and is in place.


As a photographer who's been shooting events, among many other things for the last 3 decades, I disagree with the hint that if you're not a member of SEPA you cant be trusted. I dont like negative marketing and this is negative and casting aspersions on many ethical, decent people who have existed well before you were around and well before you came up with this concept of yours.

Are you aware that AIPP's marketing phrase emphasis on promoting photography is also Trust ?

And as I keep saying, who decides on who is "trusted" to be a SEPA member ? You.



You've apparently had plenty of time to add many new things - including the SEPA website, in the last two days, and thats while I've been asking you to clarify some points privately, thats why I've finally said something publicly.

If you spent your time on removing the concerns re the licence, and answering the points you keep saying you will address, instead of getting frustrated with someone offering you legitimate advice, and instead of constantly adding new information, new websites, new announcements, then perhaps you would progress.

[kiwi]

I only can do what I can do, it's only today or yesterday that anyone mentioned the licence which is fair enough, it was there because it wouldn't be the first time someone's joined into something I'm a member of with false credentials only there to be a fraud it cause trouble to other photographers

I'll be doing more work on it today if I can get an hour

Will it be finished or perfected no, and no doubt I'll change my mind on things as I go

But thanks for raising the issues.

[Scotty72]

A couple of points that (as far as I can tell) seem to mirror or feed off William's:

If you are not required to give over a copy of your drivers' licence if you are a member of AIPP then, what is the point? Just join them.

I think it is totally unreasonable to ask people to hand over copies of sensitive documents (perhaps sighting them is ok) but, giving someone an electronic version of a signature seems risky. When I became a teacher (a little more of a child protection issue than photographing Fred at soccer), they didn't copy stuff like that (they sighted) - only copying my birth certificate (no signature) and asking me to sign stat - decs.

I too am really starting to question the reason for being of this... it is trying to fix a problem that you are creating. If you argue that 'the horse has bolted', then most, in not all, states already have 'working with children' laws/rules etc. that already seek to address the problem that you are trying to address.

Playing devil's advocate: it can be seen as

a) I will create an organisation
b) I will create a problem in the public's mind.
c) I will look for a solution to the problem I just created in the public's mind.
d) Hey, public, the answer to the problem is this reputable organisation I have just stumbled across.

I am not saying that is your motive but, you can see my point about perceptions?

Scotty

[kiwi]

I can Scotty.

I'm making some changes this afternoon that I hope will improve the site and take as many of these concerns that I can into account.

[kiwi]

OK, Ive made quite a few changes as suggested to the website and facebook. Hopefully it goes a long way to addressing the issues raised.

Ive probably missed one or few, I'll get back to it as I can......and yes, I need help, and I'm happy if youd like to assist me.

Im still committed to this.

PM me if you see anything else in the meanwhile.

[Longshots]

, and no doubt I'll change my mind on things as I go

and there's the point that you either dont want to acknowledge, or simply refuse to understand.

At present, this is not an association. If it were, you would have a group of individuals who are all like minded and would be able to democratically produce your structure, and mission statement. My concern started when mission statements etc kept being adapted with no communication with those you'd invited to join.

I'd suggest that if you want this to be an Association that you check on what that means, and instead of all of those references to "I", replace them with "we" and have a very real communication with those interested in being part of an association, not just a singular opinion.

[kiwi]

fair enough, and im looking for others, until then i guess technically its an "I"

id prefer a "we"

[Scotty72]

There are also rules of association, constitutions etc. etc. blah, blah to consider

Are you for profit or not-for profit?

You have to fill positions: Prez, Sec. Public Officer, Treasurer etc

It has been a very long time since I was involved in anything like this but, once you start accepting fees or donations - these things become very important.

[kiwi]

Non commercial, not associated. As far as I know there is no legal requirement for me to do anything.

And I agree with you - to be a NFP you need articles of association etc

[Scotty72]

OK. This is way above my expertise.

However - from what I remember...

If you're not an association and not commercial, you'll still need to at least gain tax free status and possibly register some form of name so you can open a bank account etc.

Also, if it is not an association or club, what credibility will it have? And what exactly is it?

At the extreme, 'The Association of Really Excellent Photographers' sounds a lot more credible than 'Dazz's Big Idea to Set Up a Really Cool Group.'


Also, Don't non-commercial entities have to have a community purpose such as culture, education, welfare, sports, community benefit etc


Like I said, it has been forever since I was involved in these things but, you'd better get yourself a lot more informed than I am

[kiwi]

i dont need a bank account

non for profits clubs and associations all have rules, im not intending at this stage to be any of those things, or have any other status than a registered company. There is no income, no trading.

call the group what you like.

There are 1000's of facebook groups etc out there all with members

I will though call the small biz people on my return from kiwiland next week to see if there's anything I have to register or do

i havent used the words club or association anywhere as that probably has a particular legal meaning in the interim

Join it or not, really up to you

[Scotty72]

But, the web page says society.

Assuming you are an unincorporated entity, you'll be personally liable for everything the (whatever it is) does.

Anyway,

Good luck - I just think that Longshots had very good points - you need to look before you leap.

[kiwi]

Well, yes, but as said long ago, only a limited number of "friends" are aware of it, everything was in draft and i asked for feedback, the website was probably premature granted.

Ill do some more checking on the setup side of things

And once again all assistance is gratefully received either with suggestions or with active participation

Nothing ventured nothing gained ergo

[macmich]

kiwi
just to give you a break
do you still own a swannee or bushjacket for your trip home
have a good time
cheers macca

[kiwi]

Yes, looks grim, I'm starting in Auckland then onto chch, timaru, ashburton, then to Auckland again then up to whangarei before back home again

Won't be online much either

[macmich]

have a good trip
i can remember fishing at bay of plenty wearing a shirt/bushjaket and the old style swannee and still froze
cheers