Are you a sport & event photographer ? Join SEPA

[kiwi]

I can undertake that Wayne. But there is no reason not to create a Facebook alias much Lik you have done here and the privacy controls ar such that you don't need to disclose any information to any public person anyhow.

Scotty, I agree that facebook growth has tailed off in America, but there is still international growth and still 750 million members, it's still #1, maybe in a couple of years it will be google+

[reaction]

As many have said, fb has little legitimacy, and if you ask ppl now to join with a fake alias how less legitimate are you making it?
If you are serious about this, a URL costs $10/yr and cheap hosting costs $2 a month. Sure it won't be the most reliable, but all you need now is a list of members and a few static pages.
Why would any legitimate tog join a FB page? And if you end up with a FB group full of amateurs, where will your legitimacy for the group come from?
At this point any one of us can start a group on FB and be just as legitimate as your group - that is a bad thing. It's just another FB contest where those with the most 'friends' wins.

[kiwi]

I'm not saying fake, but it can be private

I agree fb is an interim step

[crf529]

Don't take anything the wrong way, I commend you for what you are trying to achieve.

I think using FB as a sounding board for the development of your image as an organisation and what is essentially your mission statement (not to mention the SOP's which you will manage and run the group by), is a bad idea.

By all means use the forums to gain input and peer review of your ideas and where you want to go/how you intend to get there. But for something like this to work as you have suggested, a big element is that you become a known and respected group. You don't want to cause yourself grief down the track having to try and shake a 'nothing FB group' image, when you could wait in the shadows until it is all concrete and launch at least a decent web page with full details. Perception counts for alot as is usual in life, if something looks or sounds inferior/dodgy, would you waste time perusing it beyond face value?

You want to bring together a respected and sought after collection of sports photographers? Show people. Don't use half measures and give them every reason to want you shooting for them, or proving their worth to be accepted.

[kiwi]

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it and I can see your point of view. FB Groups are a dime a dozen and are hardly sticky or business appropriate.

But, I dont really see any other way of spraeding the concept and word quickly than to use FB as a launch pad. With all these things it will be perseverance and a commitment to improve and deliver outcomes that will matter I hope longer term.

But, I have today registered a domain name (www.sepa.org.au) so will hope to have a website up and running in time for the targeted public launch date of 1st September

I've also at this stage, pending feedback, added a new member category called "SEPA Associate" for those sport & event photographers that are hobbyists or dont qualify to be a full member regarding quality and equipment pre-requisites. Will see how that goes

[crf529]

I've also at this stage, pending feedback, added a new member category called "SEPA Associate" for those sport & event photographers that are hobbyists or dont qualify to be a full member regarding quality and equipment pre-requisites. Will see how that goes

I think that's a fantastic idea. Certainly enables you to extend your reach into the photography world without compromising your key values and objectives for the group. All provided though that you can implement it in such a way that keeps a nice clean separation between the two levels of 'membership'. You want others to feel a part, but you also want to keep a nice big gap between true members and non-members.

[kiwi]

http://www.sepaustralia.com.au/

[Scotty72]

You might want to fix up the silly errors of punctuation ^ it ? make;s the site % seem silly@

[kiwi]

Thanks, I'm slowly fuxing it as I go

[kiwi]

You might want to fix up the silly errors of punctuation ^ it ? make;s the site % seem silly@

Ive fixed a couple, thanks, if you see any others that'd be great to point them out. Sometimes I cant see the forest for the trees.

[reaction]

what happened to the org site?
i thot that was nicer

[ving]

be good once it is well and truly fuxed up

early days i know but the logo (top right for those playing at home) could be smoother and a little more flash looking.
looking good for a start tho daren.

[kiwi]

what happened to the org site?
i thot that was nicer

I had to create an incorporated NPO to keep an org site, so, a bit too much for a startup.

[fillum]

http://www.sepaustralia.com.au/

Kiwi I had a quick look. I know it's early days, but one of the things that struck me was the apparent contradiction between the home page ("trusted photographer", "expect a certain standard of care") and the statement at the top of the members page avoiding any responsibility. I fully understand the need for this, but wonder if this could be worded a bit more positively? Something along the lines of "SEPA operates under a published Code of Conduct and is confident that its members will conduct themselves in accordance with this code, however....", or something like that. Perhaps even finish with an invitation for prospective clients to contact a photographer in their area for a no-obligation discussion of their requirements. I think this makes the statement sound like it's aimed a bit more at helping the customer rather than just there to cuvva yo ass!


Cheers.

[Longshots]

I've held back from saying anything on this topic - eager to see what would develop.


I have concerns over what is being asked by those applying for membership. I've voiced those concerns to Darren, but there's been no change on that issue. For the record I have spoken to Darren and offered some thoughts on the concept.

I'm specifically concerned over the reason for a copy of your driving licence. I belong to a variety of organisations around the world, and not one has ever asked for that. For me that is a deal breaker.

Storing this level of information contains a great deal of responsibility, and I'm not comfortable that this is going to be handled correctly.

I also have concerns that on one hand the initial thought process and reason for existence is valid, but on the other hand there is a great deal of ignorance on the existing organisations that already cover areas like this.

Reinventing the wheel may be a good business/commercial decision, and there's nothing wrong with starting a business in a free market economy, but reinventing representative organisations are a dime a dozen, and there is a plethora of those available in Australia today. And that is what I consider this to be, a Business.

I dont see have a great deal of confidence in handing to what could be my competitor or competitors (in certain situations) a list of my gear, copies of some truly important documents (driving licence), with an unknown group who may not have any background or experience in this type of information gathering or any idea how or where secure storage would be managed.

Its worth noting that there are plenty of organisations with similar or better codes of conduct that are open to semi professionals, professionals - and this is what SEPA is aimed at. (Its clearly not aimed at the amateur, otherwise the word Client wouldnt be used.).

Are clients or prospective clients are seeking this type of reassurance from a group? Is it being market driven, or it because its a good business opportunity ?

Other points of concern is who selects who is an appropriate person to join, why SEPA can choose to ban a photographer - its worth pointing to the conditions of membership, which state in Capitals:

THE SEPA ADMINISTRATION TEAM HAVE FINAL DISCRETION ON MEMBERSHIP. MEMBERS MAY BE ADDED, REJECTED, DELETED, OR BANNED AT OUR TOTAL DISCRETION.

At the moment the SEPA team is Darren. So, you can be banned without reason, at SEPA Administration Teams discretion ? I would look at the law Darren, and you would need advice on that issue because I think you'd find yourself in very deep water. And please take that advice from one who's been on the Boards of Directors of both AIPP and ACMP (which btw you dont appear to recognise in your list of other Australian Photographic organisations).


The final point on the ever changing conditions of entry is this statement - again in Capitals:

THERE IS NO MEMBERSHIP FEE AT THIS TIME

"At this time" indicates to me that you have every intention of producing a membership fee in the future

I note that membership of the Facebook Group is no longer membership of the organisation - even though it was a week or so ago - now you have to apply again - with a new membership form. Which includes the specifics of copy of driving licence etc.

So my advice is either produce something that is up front, clear, concise and transparent. And do that with a management group of well recognised photographers. Also ensure that your admin team are all aware of their involvement, as the person I spoke to (listed as admin) knew very little about it, including a lack of knowledge that they were admin. If you cant do that I wouldnt do it at all, because all you will end up doing, is fractionalising that specific genre of photography more than it is right now.

[kiwi]

William,

I probably haven't got this right yet, fully admit it.

I'll make changes as suggested.

I don't have any ulterior commercial motive in this though, let me make that clear

As the first time I've done this I expect I'll make mistakes along the way.

So, I will if something's not right fix it

Any suggestions will be acted on in good faith

If it's not for you that's fine. But I am trying to make this work and do it as well as I can with my funds and in my time

[Scotty72]

The NSW RTA specifically advises its licence holders to not allow anyone to make a copy of the licence. It is starting to cause an issue in many licenced venues that are starting to favour scanning a licence / proof of age card in preference to a paper register.

The potential for fraud / ID theft is huge. Even though we could be very confident of Darren's integrity, could he guarantee against his files (actual or electronic) being stolen - along with what is very sensitive info?

I also agree on the point of the organisation's governance... I suspect there are some legal / statutory niceties to be negotiated. In this day and age, rejecting people from your organisation - because I said so - is a bit risky.

So, I think Longshots raises some very legit concerns.

Scotty

[ricktas]

Maybe it is time to look at some of your members and get a bit of a core focus group going, to help you out and develop this. I see if you continue on your own, you could burn out and it become overwhelming.

[kiwi]

And as I said, if I've made mistakes they are genuine and I'll fix them, I'm not trying to be mischievious

[Longshots]

As I said at the very begining Darren - consult with people.

I'm sorry but youre simply not doing that.

Despite offering you advice, you're ignoring it.

Its not a case of if its not for me.

Frankly I dont know who its for anymore.

If you have to invent/produce your own organisation to gain some credibility, I'm afraid I think thats a bit sad. Plenty of people do it, you wouldnt be the first. I could list about 20 - 30 around the country who have 1 - 30 members. And the main thing is producing credibility - in my view falsely.

Try moving away from changing your entry rules on a constant basis.

Sit down with people, discuss past experiences, seek proper support. Then you might move forward. At this rate, with your new option for you personally deciding who is a member and who isnt - seemingly on a whim, isnt going to work IMHO, and you will do more harm than good.

BTW I asked you to fix mistakes (copy of driving licence requirement for instance) and you havent.

I've not said anything to date publicly because I was giving you time to sort things out. But when you state that your admin team will decide on who is in and who is out, and you are the ONLY member of that admin team (well only one that is aware that they are part of your admin team! ) then I consider that to be wrong, and dangerous.

I dont think you're trying to be mischievous. But you're either ill informed on many issues of organisations that already promote, support, and represent photographers around the country, or you're deliberately ignoring what exists in an effort to produce your own group that I can help concluding is entirely self serving from a business perspective.

BTW If you want to put my concerns and others at rest, my advice would be to answer them transparently, and not continue with protests of "give me time". Again Driving licence issue ? You could also take up the suggestion of getting that core group together, which Rick suggested, as I did the moment I contacted you right at the start of this.