Carbon Tax - post announcement

[Kym]

So are you happy with the proposed TAX?

[Tannin]

NO.

It is a weak, gutless, half-hearted response, which only does half the job as it does not tax the carbon component of imports.

Still, it is a start, however small, and over time we can improve on it.

[kiwi]

Nooooooooooo make it stop

[geoffsta]

No. I think it's wrong. The first installment will go on Bundy and new TV's. And 2 months down the track they'll be at St Vinnies.

[Tannin]

This is an appallingly bad way to phrase a poll question. By phrasing it this way, you have made quite certain of the result. A genuine desire to gauge opinion would have required that the question be put in a fair and unbiased manner. "I like" in the context of taxes .... as if anyone bar the most careful or committed thinker is going to tick that box. Try running a poll on income tax, stamp duty, payroll tax, GST, any damn tax you like and have one of the options "I like the _____ tax" and you will get an even stronger negative result.

[Bally]

It is an appalling way to run a country, and this green coalition should be jailed, just for the poor contract they wrote re the NBN and now this. Time to ask for asylum somewhere, think I'll close down my business, lay of the staff and go elsewhere. I was going to ask the last one out to turn off the lights, but no one will be able to afford them soon anyway

Night all

[ameerat42]

At a hardware store I laughed when I read the name of a possum repellent, "Poss Off!".

What can 1 say about this? "Tax Off Us", maybe?

Well, I wish it would just GOA way, so we could focus on effective ways of "saving the environment".
ho-hAm.

[jim]

I voted yes in the confident assurance that I'd be the only one. The tax doesn't go nearly far enough to satisfy its supporters, and any new tax will outrage everyone else.

So I'm a little miffed to fine someone else voted yes too. Somebody has some explaining to do.

[Tannin]

^ That was me. But it was dumb to vote at all in such a badly worded poll and I regretted it immediately. Sorry Jim. I won't do it again.

[geoffsta]

It's a hard question to ask. Tannin
To me my interpretation of the question was fair.
Either...
1. No, it's the wrong way to go. As in.. I still don't believe that the tax will benifit Australia as a whole.
2. Yes. I like the Carbon Tax. I believe it is heading in the right direction. (In your case you could have added) But I think it is a weak, gutless, half-hearted response, which only does half the job as it does not tax the carbon component of imports. Still, it is a start, however small, and over time we can improve on it.

That my take Tannin on the question.

[Tannin]

It's an easy question to ask, Geoff. All you have to do is put both answers into the same voice. For example, you could ask:

Do you think the carbon tax is the right thing to do? or
Do you think the carbon tax is the wrong thing to do?

Alternatively, you could ask both questions in a like/dislike form, and while that would be a slight improvement, it would still be inappropriate to a question about taxation, unless you were to ask the same question about all the other taxes and then compare the answers.

It's not rocket science, just a matter of being fair and impartial.

[Mark L]

Yes, I like the carbon tax I'd rather Yes, I like the carbon tax in conjunction with all the the other parts of the package. Or I like all the other parts of the package but bugger that carbon tax business. WIIFM .
The never ever GST was going to by the end of the world for some. Thinking this isn't dissimilar.
Got my 60D today, I'll come back to this thread when I've read the manual, figured out what all the buttons are for (I won't start in auto mode), know how to PP and post a few photos for cc

[crum]

J u l i a G i l l a r d y o u a r e a n e m b a r r a s s m e n t t o t h i s c o u n t r y a n d s h o u l d s t o p t a l k i n g t o u s l i k e w e a r e 4 y e a r s o l d.

Anyway typical Labor taking from the rich and big industries to feed the poor. Do they not see the big picture of how this will affect everyone. I know if it wasn't for the local big industries here the town would be dead. All the companies will do is take everything overseas where they don't have to pay a carbon tax. Good one you idiots.

To be honest I think global warming is just an evolutionary thing. I mean when the ice age ended there wasn't cars on the road and big industries pumping pollution into the sky

[WhoDo]

It's an easy question to ask, Geoff. All you have to do is put both answers into the same voice.

That depends on what you are looking to discover, too, doesn't it? For example:

Do you believe in the value of any carbon tax?
Do you believe in the value of this carbon tax?
Do you believe in any new tax?
Do you believe in this new tax?
Do you believe taxing carbon emissions will help the environment?
Do you believe taxing carbon emissions will hurt the environment?
Do you believe taxing anything will help the environment?
Do you believe taxing anything will hurt the environment?
Do you believe some politicians are lying, thieving, power hungry scumbags?
Do you believe some politicians are naive, ignorant, yet altruistic idiots?

There are umpteen different results that are possible depending upon how you frame a question and, as demonstrated above, even using the "same voice" is no guarantee against a skewed result.

If it were up to me I would frame the question as simply and unambiguously as possible while avoiding the underlying issue of environmental health. This debate is not really about saving the environment; anyone with half an ounce of sense wants to do that! Instead it's about taxing carbon emissions as a legitimate means to saving our environment. On that topic there can be no unanimous agreement IMHO. How about:

1. Do you think the proposed carbon tax will have a significant impact on climate change?

2. Do you think any carbon tax will have a significant impact on climate change?

[Scotty72]

This is an appallingly bad way to phrase a poll question. By phrasing it this way, you have made quite certain of the result. A genuine desire to gauge opinion would have required that the question be put in a fair and unbiased manner. "I like" in the context of taxes .... as if anyone bar the most careful or committed thinker is going to tick that box. Try running a poll on income tax, stamp duty, payroll tax, GST, any damn tax you like and have one of the options "I like the _____ tax" and you will get an even stronger negative result.

Somehow, I think that was Kym's point.

[Scotty72]

It is an appalling way to run a country, and this green coalition should be jailed, just for the poor contract they wrote re the NBN and now this. Time to ask for asylum somewhere, think I'll close down my business, lay of the staff and go elsewhere. I was going to ask the last one out to turn off the lights, but no one will be able to afford them soon anyway

Night all

Maybe they should tax melodrama too

[Scotty72]

The original question is rather like, 'Are you happy that the man who murdered your relative is in jail?'

Very dumb and so ambiguous as to be unfair...

Yes = ahh! Are you happy that justice was served or happy that you relative is dead?

[Scotty72]

J u l i a G i l l a r d y o u a r e a n e m b a r r a s s m e n t t o t h i s c o u n t r y a n d s h o u l d s t o p t a l k i n g t o u s l i k e w e a r e 4 y e a r s o l d.

Anyway typical Labor taking from the rich and big industries to feed the poor. Do they not see the big picture of how this will affect everyone. I know if it wasn't for the local big industries here the town would be dead. All the companies will do is take everything overseas where they don't have to pay a carbon tax. Good one you idiots.

To be honest I think global warming is just an evolutionary thing. I mean when the ice age ended there wasn't cars on the road and big industries pumping pollution into the sky

Yes, in the 1990s when the Newcastle steel (the area's main employer (incl the associated industry) & life blood) works closed down, that reduced Newcastle to a ghost town. Newcastle no longer exists. There is no jobs in Newcastle and apparently, the last one out did turn off the lights.

I guess the thriving city I visited at the weekend (and will again tomorrow / Wednesday) is just my imagination.

Scotty

[Kym]

Well there are a bunch of people who are supposed to be better off thus liking the tax, and a bunch who think it wont do the job, or will be worse off etc. who don't like it.

It's a fair question, it gets personal and to the heart of the issue; i.e. how people feel about it.

The other questions start raising secondary issues.

The question as raised goes to the key issue juliar has to overcome if she wants to sell the tax.

[Tannin]

So why did you phrase the questions in totally different terms - setting "I like" against "bad decision" - if you were not trying to be unfair?

What faith are you going to place in the answers to a loaded question?

Do you need some basic training?

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