Serious competitions: Am I good enough?

[jasevk]

The good thing about the APPA's is that you dint need to be 'the winner' to reap benefit from entering.

Your prints are scored against a standard structure... Even If your images don't score high enough to be awarded silver or gold, with or without distinction... You can be encouraged by falling just short of this and having your work judged as of professional practice.

[Jules]

[snip]...Changing my style or subject matter to appeal to someone else's whims isn't something I see myself doing. My photographic evolution needs to be on my terms, and happen during its natural course.

...Those approaches just aren't approaches that suit what I do or what I want, and doing it because everyone else is doing it, or because the judges seem to favour it, isn't a direction I want to take. I found my style, I found my subject matter interest, and I'm bloody fussy about both. Doing something unnatural to me to appeal to someone else is just so foreign to me...

...I'm probably less willing to make major alterations to my style and subject matter to appeal to someone else's view of How It Should Be...[snip]

I'm trimming all your statements down to just these three, because they seem the most important to me.

You already know the answer to your question Xenedis. Enter as many competitions as you like, serious or otherwise. Learn from them what you can. But above all else, stay true to yourself and your vision. Because at the end of the day, I'll bet that matters more to you than any awards.

[ving]

In the end, if you need to win a competition to justify to yourself that you are a good photographer, you are looking in the wrong place. Competitions are just that, and with all the quirkiness and fickleness of the judges comes bias. You are a good photographer Xenedis, as are many other members of AP, and APPA, but there are also a lot of even better photographers that will never be members of AP or any other site or organisation, who also know they can produce great photographs.

Using a competition win as a measure of your success is the wrong way to go, in my opinion.

a truer statement has never been said!

[junqbox]

My personal opinon is that you produce stunningly technically and emotionaly superb images which would have both a commercial and competitve value. But the subject matter, something I know you have a preference for (as do others), is not something that grabs me. Therein lies the subjective/objective dilemma.

If I were you, I would go for it. What have you got to lose?

[Art Vandelay]

Last year I abandoned all forms of competition out of sheer frustration at my inability to do well. I also stopped shooting, and it took a while for me to get back into it again.

I'll go against the grain & suggest that you give them a miss. If you're emotionally fragile and don't get the wins or kudos you expect you'll probably give it away again, then you'll lose the personal enjoyment out of photography....

[Dylan & Marianne]

Agree with Art's statement too
I avoided going in competitions alot for that reason but I seem to have donned a slightly thicker skin with age !

[William]

Think It's all been said John, Just go for it , One of your images that really sticks in my head is the one of "Narrabeen Gorge" The one you did the Image blending on, Your recent Architectural ones are also excellent , Winning comps is very fickle, I've won a few over the last few years, The funny thing is on this site I mostly post in the Landscape/Seascape forum , I must admit I get really positive feedback on that forum on my images , When I post them in the comps they dont do so well , Maybe the Landscapers dont Vote , Who knows Most of my 6 or so wins are from other genre , I must hold the record for coming second the most since I joined I did feel down towards the latter half of last year as well , I said some things that I now regret (Luckily Rick deleted them) , I think I sort of know where your coming from, My tip is , Enter the ones with the most Thumb Nail visual impact , One Image in particular I've entered twice in comps here, Never got to the finals , Yet has been published in two Aussie Magazines and the news Papers as well , OK it was Photo Journalism Image, Maybe that does'nt work in comps , Thank goodness I've learnt to deal with that now , Maybe It's just winning a comp or two gives you that marker as to how your going Photographically , All my family say I take a good shot tho , Just my little rant on your thread - Cheers Bill , Good luck in the comps you will enter

[ving]

i personally steer clear of comps cause i just aint got the skillz.

[William]

i personally steer clear of comps cause i just aint got the skillz.

It's the only way I can get new Camera equipment and Computor Gear

[kazdez]

In camera clubs, all the judges say that their opinions are subjective. In Qld, the judges come from a pool of "accredited judges" who have been mentored by other "accredited judges", who are not necessarily pro photographers, they are camera enthusiasts who have been shooting for years, and did their qualifications to become a judge. Many here have mentioned that some judges, seem to sway to the particular genre that they are interested in.
As a camera club participant, I always shoot and compete on images that I like. My photography is for me and I go to the meetings, with the attitude that they won't like it, but I do, and if it get panned or just an acceptance, no worries. But if one of the "accredited judges" gives it an award, that's nice.

We recently had a speaker at our club, who is the editor of an internationally acclaimed magazine, who said that he applies the "3 second" rule, when accepting images for the magazine. We each will look at an image, and usually with in 3 seconds we either like it or hate it. And its all subjective.

Try competing in some of the international salons. They use the 3 second rule for their images, and many who compete, find that they do so much better in that type of competition.

If ever you get the opportunity to see the AIPP or other associations, who stream their judging on the net, it is worthwhile sitting and listening, and observing. You will be able to pick what the judges will say in a short time of watching and listening. But they do not do the 3 minute rule, judging.

I choose not to compete, in most competitions, not because I don't win anything, but my photography is for me, I like it, and thats' what matters

I share my images in various locations, such as Facebook, Redbubble and Flickr, and the responses that I get there are more genuine than any judge.

Keep shooting, keep competing, and love your images.

Karen

[Geoff79]

Haha, maybe it's not so bad being crap after all, and avoiding such worries.

I definitely can't picture myself having these kind of worries anytime soon, but Xenedis, very early on in my time on this forum I pencilled you in as one of my personal faves, based on the images I'd seen. And looking at that link only confirms that. I personally love most of those shots. But I also totally appreciate that me liking them is no indication at all of how you will do in competitions.

Because photography is only a hobby for me, the only "competition" experience I have had is on this forum. Getting no votes is never pleasing, especially when you actually rate your own image (which admittedly isn't always the case compared to what others offer), but I just enjoy putting them out there and seeing what happens anyway. I was stoked the other day to get 15 votes for one of my shots. Sure, I was miles off the pace and still under halfway, but it was still a good result for me.

Anyway, rambling aside. If I took photos as good as yours, I would certainly have a go. The fact that you and Dtoh have both had average experiences in comps only highlights to me how tough I'm sure they would be (as you both put up some amazing shots), but you can only have a shot and just see how you go.

Even though this site is my only competition experience, I'm sure it's exactly the same in the real world, just amplified. I'll admit there's been plenty of competitions here where I completely disagree with the eventual winning shot, or rankings etc. But I also acknowledge that everyone here is probably looking for something different from a photo, and my personal faves aren't always the personal faves of the masses.

[jeffde]

I don't enter many competitions anymore for several reasons - time being the main one...

I have found that images that sell - don't neccessarily win comps, and images that win comps don't nexccessarily sell either.
We at our local camera club have some truly great photographers =, who win comp after comp - but they never sell an image (nor is that their intention)
I sell lots of images (but seldom win anything....)
If i sell an image (usually perople) and that person loves it - whether it wins a comp or not doesn't really faze me - Competion entries don't rely on "an emotional attachment' therefore
the truly great competions winners take great photos.

You have lots of great photos, so to me what's your goal in entering competitions - that's what should decide if you enter or not.

[ricktas]

Take this weeks POTW, there are 55 entries being voted on. There will be one winner, so 54 who are not winners. Yet of those 54, every single entry is worthy, it displays its genre and content in a great way, and if I had to critique them all for judging and make a comment on each entry, it would be a huge challenge, and I am 100% positive, I could not pick the one that will eventually win. Winning competitions is a mix of luck, good skills, luck, good subject, luck, finding a judge who likes your style, oh and did I mention luck.

[Xenedis]

All,

Thanks for the responses and interesting discussion.

It's been a long, intense day and I don't have much time or energy right now to respond properly. I'll try to do so during the week.

[cam bicknell]

In my limited time on this forum I had also picked you out as someone whose work I find particularly interesting. Some of your pictures I really like, others I don't connect to the subject matter but it's always worth having a look at what you've done both out of interest and to try and learn something to help me improve.
Some people are more competitive than others and it sounds like you have a desire to do this. The reasons for and against have been well covered by you and other respondents but to me it sounds like deep down you want to give it a go and therefore should.

[peterb666]

I use to argue with the X-man in the photographic forums of Whirlpool in years gone by. It was the X-man's seascapes that got me back into photography and I had the pleasure of meeting the icon on my first AP meet. I witnessed the death of the X-man's first Canon 5D and I admire how that didn't hold him back. The camera was replaced with a newer version within a couple of hours.

I have seen the X-man take on HDR and portraits. What can I say but there would be few photos that the fellow cannot do well. Self-portraits would be about the only thing that I can think of.

You will do well in serious comps (unless they are rigged or you let the 'politics' gets you).

All the best.

[CAP]

Fence sitter????????? not quite
If you are emotionally up for it, then light those afterburners and go for it.
If worried about becoming a train wreck by not succeeding, then steer away from them.
all pretty simple in my mind..... but then again, I am simple.

[Lance B]

Looking at your favourites gallery, I certainly think there are many capable winners in that lot and as other's have suggested, you won't know unless you enter. If you don't enter, you definitely won't win!

[Bennymiata]

My father is or was a photographic judge and also has FAPS and FLAPS after his name and he earned them by entering and winning lots of comps both here and overseas.
He's a very good photographer with great skills, but mainly in the old, film world.
My father and I used to spend many nights in his darkroom developing photos and priniting both in colour and B&W.
He often argued with the other judges, as he reckoned that many of them didn't really have the technical expertise to tell a well crafted photo from a dud, so I guess you will always get good judges and not-so-good judges. It's just a matter of luck, and he reckons that most judges were only there to make themselves look like a big man (or woman) as their own photography skills were lacking.
He was invited to judge competitions almost every night of the week at various clubs, but gave it up after a couple of years as he said it was a thankless task, which paid nothing, yet it was on his head to make the right decision.

In his words, he reckons that a lot of club comps are won by committee members, as the judges soon learn the various styles of the club members and they tend to be a bit biased.

Personally, while I did enter one photo in a comp here, competitions are not for me, as I do my photography for work, and my own pleasure, and if people don't like what I do, it really doesn't worry me as I know that photography, like art, is a very subjective thing and no 2 people can share exactly the same opinion on any one shot.

If you want to compete, by all means go ahead and enjoy yourself, but don't get too upset if you don't win all the time, or even if you never win.
Competion is fun when you do it for your own reasons. Competing to get prizes isn't worth the hassle.
As I said previously, my father won a lot of competitions, and he has suitcases full of medals and awards, and a big shelf with all his big cups and trophies on it, but they are all just worthless, so if you expect to make money out of being winning comps, forget about it as the prizes aren't worth much.
It actually surprises me that the camera clubs don't hassle the camera importers for good prizes to offer, as I used to do in a car club I was the president of.
We use to hassle the brand's head office and other sponsors for prizes and give-aways all the time, and we got some great items to sell or give away, yet in camera clubs, you might get a $5 cup if you win a big comp.

Competing in photography can only be done because you enjoy it.
If you don't enjoy being in a comp, don't bother entering as it will only make you angry.

[Xenedis]

above all else, stay true to yourself and your vision. Because at the end of the day, I'll bet that matters more to you than any awards.

You've got it in one.

I'm not driven by awards or prizes of monetary value. Of course, these are nice, but shooting what I want, on my own terms, is much nicer.

Still, I'd like to again test the waters in competition land and see if I can hold my own against the pool of stunning images out there.

My personal opinon is that you produce stunningly technically and emotionaly superb images which would have both a commercial and competitve value.

That's quite a big compliment, so thanks!

I cannot see the emotional impact my images might have, as a given image may affect someone profoundly, but will have no impact on the next guy. I've never considered my images to be strong as far as emotional impact; aesthetics and technical precision, sure, but emotion, not so much.

But the subject matter, something I know you have a preference for (as do others), is not something that grabs me. Therein lies the subjective/objective dilemma.

Indeed. Of course, if the competition is genre-specific, it's much easier in that respect.

I'll go against the grain & suggest that you give them a miss. If you're emotionally fragile and don't get the wins or kudos you expect you'll probably give it away again, then you'll lose the personal enjoyment out of photography....

Heh. I'm not that emotionally fragile, nor driven by some need to win. It'd take a lot more than that for me to 'down tools'.

My frustration last year was with more than the competition game.

Agree with Art's statement too
I avoided going in competitions alot for that reason

I think most people don't like to hear that they're not good enough; it's human nature. I guess what we do in response to negative feedback is more important than whether the feedback is positive, negative or neutral.

Maybe you should enter some comps, too.

Think It's all been said John, Just go for it

I think I will.

I feel like stepping up and going into some serious comps, as well as some not-so-serious comps. It could be beneficial, even if I don't collect the prize.

One of your images that really sticks in my head is the one of "Narrabeen Gorge" The one you did the Image blending on

I use blending on many images. :-)

I'm glad you like that one, though; it is one of my favourite images, and the elements that day were perfect for that shot. Rare, in my experience.

Your recent Architectural ones are also excellent

Thanks Bill. While I'm enjoying that style at the moment, there's probably very little from that collection I'd submit in a serious comp. It just doesn't strike me as comp material, although one never knows.

Winning comps is very fickle, I've won a few over the last few years, The funny thing is on this site I mostly post in the Landscape/Seascape forum , I must admit I get really positive feedback on that forum on my images , When I post them in the comps they dont do so well

Yes, it can sure be confusing when the competition results don't align with general feedback.

It's even more astounding when a judge provides very positive comments about an image, but doesn't give it an award. I've experienced that.

You have some strong images in your collection, but like me you might be caught up in a genre that's been done a lot.

It seems that on AP landscape, seascape and macro images tend to be favoured by the voting community. Portraits seem to bomb.