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Thread: Tolls on the Bruce Hwy!!

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    Sir Rattus79 - The Proclaimant
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    Tolls on the Bruce Hwy!!

    This was sent to me by my Missus this morning. (I've blocked her email for privacy reasons)

    Thank you Can Do, Just what we all need, More Tolls!!!

    From: statements@qld.gov.au [mailto:statements@qld.gov.au]
    Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:00 PM
    Subject: Queensland motorists slugged under Newman's toll plan for the Bruce



    Main Roads, Fisheries and Marine Infrastructure
    The Honourable Craig Wallace
    16/06/2011

    Queensland motorists slugged under Newman's toll plan for the Bruce

    Queensland motorists would have to pay to use the Bruce Highway under a plan by Campbell Newman to toll the State's most important national highway.

    Main Roads Minister Craig Wallace said communities from Brisbane to Cairns would face big rises in freight and travel costs under the new toll tax.

    In the LNP's first-ever roads policy announcement, LNP Parliamentary Leader Jeff Seeney said in the Innisfail Advocate that the LNP was looking at putting tolls on the Bruce Highway.

    The June 11 story said: "Campbell Newman's Queensland LNP will be putting all options on the table - including the possibility of introducing tolls - to deliver an all-weather highway linking the north and south of the State."

    Mr Wallace said: "Queenslanders will pay through the nose to use the Bruce Highway under the plan.

    "Campbell Newman must now say immediately if he backs Jeff Seeney in this toll tax," he said.

    "Does Jeff Seeney have Campbell Newman's authority to make the commitment?"

    Mr Wallace said Campbell Newman's toll transponders would be beeping all along the Bruce, electronically dipping into every motorist's and truckie's pocket, including for trips from:

    ·Cairns and Townsville - BEEP! - thanks Campbell Newman

    ·Townsville to Mackay - BEEP! - thanks Campbell Newman.

    ·Mackay to Rockhampton - BEEP! - thanks Campbell Newman.

    ·Rockhampton to Gympie - BEEP! - thanks Campbell Newman.

    ·Gympie to Brisbane - BEEP! - thanks Campbell Newman.

    "Freight and travel costs will go through the roof in regional Queensland as businesses pass on this big new toll tax, with North Queensland facing the biggest increases," Mr Wallace said.

    "Campbell Newman will bring SEQ rate rises and SEQ tolls to the regions.

    "Campbell Newman is obsessed with tolls and he is looking longingly at tolling the Bruce," Mr Wallace said.

    "But all he produced in Brisbane was a bankrupt toll tunnel and a dead-loss toll bridge that goes nowhere," he said.

    "The answer is not gouging motorists but massively boosting funding from the Commonwealth," Mr Wallace said.

    "The Bruce is in the state it is because the Howard Government gave only $100 million a year over 12 years, when many current LNP members were part of that government.

    "In contrast the Gillard Government is giving an average of $480 a year - nearly five times more.

    "The LNP wants to slug motorists for a problem that they helped create."

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    a) This may be a political smear / hoax. Can you verify the authenticity of this?

    b) Although it will not be popular, maybe we should all consider the need for better /safer roads along with the fact that someone has to pay for them. I actually feel sorry for the governments (of all persuasions) when they are criticized for not fixing the roads then, criticized some more when they try to suggest that the fix might actually cost some money.
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    Doesn't surprise me. The Bruce needs a lot of repairs as well as flood proofing (or better alternative flood proof freight transport provided......toot toot!), if the federal government won't fund it, and we know the state government is too broke to fund it then what other answer is there? Sadly the state of the Bruce mainly affects a minority in the north and consequently both parties won't put up the cash to get it sorted, as there isn't enough votes in it for them.
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    Sir Rattus79 - The Proclaimant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty72 View Post
    a) This may be a political smear / hoax. Can you verify the authenticity of this?
    It came from my partner who is Personal Aide to a high level mining corporation execuitive. She gets all these updates direct from the QLD government media releases.

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    Sir Rattus79 - The Proclaimant
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    My problem with this is that the bruce is part of our "National" Hwy. As the rest of the country gets to drive their section of this particular Hwy free of charge, Why should QLD be different??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattus79 View Post
    My problem with this is that the bruce is part of our "National" Hwy. As the rest of the country gets to drive their section of this particular Hwy free of charge, Why should QLD be different??
    I am sure if Qld is allowed to do it, other states will soon follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty72 View Post
    b) Although it will not be popular, maybe we should all consider the need for better /safer roads along with the fact that someone has to pay for them. I actually feel sorry for the governments (of all persuasions) when they are criticized for not fixing the roads then, criticized some more when they try to suggest that the fix might actually cost some money.
    Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's surprised that the fix will cost money. But we all pay a 'road tax' in our registration, PLUS we all pay TAX. I'm sure most people would prefer (I would anyway) the government 'skimping' in other areas to keep roads, bridges, and tunnels toll free.

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    Poor management, poor infrastructure, poor everything...the roads north of Caboolture are atrocious. One lane goat tracks where you get stuck behind traffic doing less than the speed limit on roads that were damaged by floods six months ago, and nothing has been done to rectify the problem. Where there is the ability to pass, you need to be speeding as those in the left lane will speed up the minute an overtaking lane appears, only to slow down again.

    I drive regularly from Ipswich to Maryborough, a trip which with Brisbane traffic takes almost 4 hours, it's not even 300 kilometres. Over half that trip is on substandard roads that have high accident statistics (mostly death) and Campbell Newman wants to charge me to drive on it? And to add to it, the speed limit is 90k's instead of 110 for the rest of the Bruce. The repairs that they have done stuff up the minute there's any decent rain, and the cycle starts again.

    If he's going to charge me, I might just start sending him the bills for the wheel alignments that I have to get done as a result of continually driving on these crappy roads.

    Our government has a habit of forgetting about those outside of South East Queensland, Campbell Newman hasn't, he's seen them as a cash cow and figures it will be a good money spinner for a state that couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. It's a national highway, falling under FEDERAL, not STATE government...little Johnny should have put his hand in his pocket years ago, and actually did what needed to be done.

    The Bruce Highway has been cut 446 times in two years by flooding...something that still hasn't been addressed. It was cut at Gympie in the January floods and now there's talk of 'flood proofing' that section of the Bruce, at a cost of $1.3billion - which begs a further question, how can an 18k stretch of road between Ipswich and Brisbane cost $19billion??

    I think a move to Perth might be in order if this clown actually gets in...
    Last edited by Sezzy; 17-06-2011 at 6:39am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain View Post
    Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's surprised that the fix will cost money. But we all pay a 'road tax' in our registration, PLUS we all pay TAX. I'm sure most people would prefer (I would anyway) the government 'skimping' in other areas to keep roads, bridges, and tunnels toll free.
    And, this tends to open up another can of worms and an argument that no side will every concede ground on.

    Depending on whose figures you believe, road taxes (as part of rego), fuel taxes etc either cover the roads budget or they don't. According to figures I obtained when I was involved in bicycle advocacy: in NSW (I assume Qld Is worse off because of less tax / longer roads), the total raised (including NSW share of federal money) falls well short of the amount spend on road building / maintenance.

    Then there are the social costs of motoring: pollution, road trauma, sedentary lifestyles etc and the $billions they can cost to society.

    I think, the last thing the average motorist would want, is to be asked to pay the true cost of motoring.

    As for your point about waste in other spending areas.

    All spending is wasteful unless it benefits us or we sympathize with those it benefits. I used to drive a Yellow Cab around Brisbane. The taxi subsidy give to disabled people was constantly attacked by the shock jocks as wasteful. To others, it is the most sensible spending in government history.

    Scotty

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    Sir Rattus79 - The Proclaimant
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    It gets EVEN BETTER!!!

    Update:

    Hancock Coal Pty Ltd
    Lvl 8, 307 Queen Street, Brisbane QLD 4001
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    Tel. No. +61 (07) 3231 9623
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    From: statements@qld.gov.au [mailto:statements@qld.gov.au]
    Sent: Friday, 17 June 2011 2:38 PM
    To:
    Subject: Townsville motorists slugged under Newman's toll plan for the Bruce



    Main Roads, Fisheries and Marine Infrastructure
    The Honourable Craig Wallace
    17/06/2011

    Townsville motorists slugged under Newman's toll plan for the Bruce

    The LNP have been caught out trying to introduce tolls on the Bruce Highway after a journalist at the Innisfail Advocate confirmed reports to State Parliament that the Party was considering them on a recent trip to the Far North.

    Main Roads Minister Craig Wallace said Townsville motorists would have to pay $355 to drive to Cairns and $328 to travel to Mackay under a plan by Campbell Newman to toll the Bruce Highway.

    Trucks would pay $1033 and $954 respectively for the same trips, while a trip by car to Brisbane would cost $1397 and $4065 for a truck.

    Using Campbell Newman's $3.95 formula for cars on Brisbane's Clem7, tolls between major centres along the Bruce would be:

    Cars - $1 per kilometre

    Brisbane to Gympie 232km $232

    Gympie to Rockhampton 380km $380

    Rockhampton to Mackay 457km $457

    Mackay to Townsville 328km $328

    Townsville to Cairns 355km $355

    TOTAL 1752km $1752

    Heavy Vehicles - $2.91 per kilometre

    Brisbane to Gympie 232km $675.12

    Gympie to Rockhampton 380km $1105.80

    Rockhampton to Mackay 457km $1329.87

    Mackay to Townsville 328km $954.48

    Townsville to Cairns 355km $1033.05

    TOTAL 1752km $5098.32

    "Queenslanders from Brisbane to Cairns will pay through the nose to use the Bruce Highway under Campbell Newman's plan," Mr Wallace said.

    "Campbell Newman's toll transponders will electronically dip into every motorist's and truckie's pocket, often several times, as they drive along the Bruce.

    "Freight and travel costs will go through the roof in regional Queensland as businesses pass on this big new toll tax, with Cairns and Townsville facing the biggest increases."

    "Campbell Newman is a tolls junkie and he is looking longingly at tolling the Bruce," Mr Wallace said.

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    You have to love the spin and outrageous figures from Craig Wallace.

    It's getting near election time folks.

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    I really would take these figures with a grain of salt.

    This is obviously part of a fear campaign by someone. Even the most ardent supporter of tolls would gag at the prospect of $1,700+ for the full length. You could fly in 'tripple first class' with all the trimmings for less so, no one would ever drive (making a toll totally unviable).

    Obviously, the election up there is drawing nigh.

    Scotty

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    Not sure what is worse, the politicians that come up with this spin expecting us to fall for it, or the fact that someone will get sucked in by it.

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    Sir Rattus79 - The Proclaimant
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    At the same time, I wouldn't put it past Can Do Campbell! I mean this is the same man that produced a tunnel that went bankrupt and a bridge named after a has been band that also doesn't get used.

    Funnily enough, if he'd listened to his constituents, he'd never have built either! I work on the south side, but am the only one there that lives on the south side. Not a single one of our northside workers use the tunnel. Not one!!!

    and the boss who lives in the West End, hasn't even used the bridge once. (that said, not a single company car has a transponder in it anyway!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattus79 View Post
    At the same time, I wouldn't put it past Can Do Campbell! I mean this is the same man that produced a tunnel that went bankrupt and a bridge named after a has been band that also doesn't get used.

    Funnily enough, if he'd listened to his constituents, he'd never have built either! I work on the south side, but am the only one there that lives on the south side. Not a single one of our northside workers use the tunnel. Not one!!!

    and the boss who lives in the West End, hasn't even used the bridge once. (that said, not a single company car has a transponder in it anyway!)
    This line of reasoning is not very helpful.

    The Clem 7 tunnel and Go-Between bridge have nothing in common with the Bruce Hwy (except the are both black).

    They were both designed to alleviate a problem that doesn't really exist - therefore, it is little wonder they are under-used.

    This is especially true of the Go-Between bridge which may save a whole 5 mins as compared to the Grey St bridge - many people may put up with the extra few minutes to save the toll.

    Even the tunnel isn't overly helpful. It save only a few minutes compared to the Cpt Cook Br - Hale St - etc. Again, most people may wear the short amount of extra time to save the toll.

    Even so, I remember a traffic study (a few years back) suggesting that only a small percentage of Brisbane people actually bi-pass the city (eg. from Mt Gravatt to Chermside etc.) So, building bi-passes does seem a little silly.

    However, perhaps in a few years, if Brisbane's traffic becomes truly aweful - the time saved will be more than worth it. (such as the M2, M5 etc in Sydney - when not using them costs heaps of time).

    As silly as the bridge and the tunnel are: it is very unhelpful (purely emotive) to try to compare them to the Bruce Hwy.

    The Bruce Hwy is completely different. They are not offerring new roads etc. just tolling an old one - nor is there much of an alternative, apart from flying / rail. High tolls would be far, far more unpalatable - therefore, the unbelievable tolls suggested are... UNBELIEVABLE!

    What they may well do is upgrade sections (eg - extend the motorway beyond Gympie) then toll those bits - which would be justified as paying for a better road.

    Scotty

    Scotty

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    Hoax.

    Please don't post such ridiculous nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty72 View Post
    This line of reasoning is not very helpful.

    The Clem 7 tunnel and Go-Between bridge have nothing in common with the Bruce Hwy (except the are both black).

    They were both designed to alleviate a problem that doesn't really exist - therefore, it is little wonder they are under-used.

    This is especially true of the Go-Between bridge which may save a whole 5 mins as compared to the Grey St bridge - many people may put up with the extra few minutes to save the toll.

    Even the tunnel isn't overly helpful. It save only a few minutes compared to the Cpt Cook Br - Hale St - etc. Again, most people may wear the short amount of extra time to save the toll.

    Even so, I remember a traffic study (a few years back) suggesting that only a small percentage of Brisbane people actually bi-pass the city (eg. from Mt Gravatt to Chermside etc.) So, building bi-passes does seem a little silly.

    However, perhaps in a few years, if Brisbane's traffic becomes truly aweful - the time saved will be more than worth it. (such as the M2, M5 etc in Sydney - when not using them costs heaps of time).

    As silly as the bridge and the tunnel are: it is very unhelpful (purely emotive) to try to compare them to the Bruce Hwy.

    The Bruce Hwy is completely different. They are not offerring new roads etc. just tolling an old one - nor is there much of an alternative, apart from flying / rail. High tolls would be far, far more unpalatable - therefore, the unbelievable tolls suggested are... UNBELIEVABLE!

    What they may well do is upgrade sections (eg - extend the motorway beyond Gympie) then toll those bits - which would be justified as paying for a better road.

    Scotty

    Scotty
    Whilst I appreciate your point of view...I'm thinking you're a little short of the mark on 'small percentage'...

    The amount of people that travel the ICB on a daily basis, is huge...I know this because I actually drove it every day - traffic is nowhere near as congested as Sydney - but is still wall to wall, usually with impatient idiots...

    Not so sure I'd trust that 'traffic study', and much rather trust my own physical experience. The fact is to get from one side of Brisbane to the other - you don't even need to go through Brisbane CBD, you go through the valley...only an idiot would try to get from south side to the northside and vice versa via the city.

    Clem 7 is a joke. At $6.00 for a business vehicle (a ute) each way, you may as well sit in the nose to tail traffic. The time saved...about 20 minutes, and I know this because once again - I travel it, so there is quite a substantial time saving there - the reason...the Clem 7 is usually empty...

    I don't think the figures given are anywhere near realistic...nor is it helpful for such a spin to be put on it.

    I am curious though how they can toll a road in which there is no alternative route? From Brisbane to Gympie is fairly easy (as long as you live near Ipswich or at Caboolture), there is an alternative route. But what about the rest of the state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezzy View Post
    Whilst I appreciate your point of view...I'm thinking you're a little short of the mark on 'small percentage'...

    The amount of people that travel the ICB on a daily basis, is huge...I know this because I actually drove it every day - traffic is nowhere near as congested as Sydney - but is still wall to wall, usually with impatient idiots...

    Not so sure I'd trust that 'traffic study', and much rather trust my own physical experience. The fact is to get from one side of Brisbane to the other - you don't even need to go through Brisbane CBD, you go through the valley...only an idiot would try to get from south side to the northside and vice versa via the city.

    Clem 7 is a joke. At $6.00 for a business vehicle (a ute) each way, you may as well sit in the nose to tail traffic. The time saved...about 20 minutes, and I know this because once again - I travel it, so there is quite a substantial time saving there - the reason...the Clem 7 is usually empty...

    I don't think the figures given are anywhere near realistic...nor is it helpful for such a spin to be put on it.

    I am curious though how they can toll a road in which there is no alternative route? From Brisbane to Gympie is fairly easy (as long as you live near Ipswich or at Caboolture), there is an alternative route. But what about the rest of the state?
    Well, when I lived up there (10 years ago, granted) - I made a few trips to the Bris traffic management centre (from memory it was somewhere around the area between the valley and Bowen Hills - but, I'm not 100% sure I remember). There, they would always say that Brisbane was remarkable in that (if you pretend that Bris CBD & the valley both north and south of the river) the northside stays north and the southside stays south.

    Also, pushing a cab around Brisbane for 3 years, I had the same experience - if I picked up from the southside - they rarely went north (other than the airport) and vise versa was even stronger.

    Granted, if you are going straight up Gympie Rd from the south, you'd probably use the Storey Br - but, my point was, of course you wouldn't pay the $6 to save <5 min.

    I drove through a Bris 'rush hour' last April. So easy, went from Windsor to Upper Mt Gravatt (to see a friend) via the ICB (just because) - there was no-way I was going to pay $6 to avoid traffic that wasn't there.

    As for the Bruce: I meant that if they extend the motorway but retain the old road, people can chose to pay a few bucks to bi-pass Gympie at 110 km/h or battle through Gympie (well, at least there is a good pie shop). I know I would rather pay. All I meant was, perhaps that is Can-Do's plan - rather than the silly stories going around that he'll charge us $300 to drive to Maryborough.

    Scotty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty72 View Post
    All spending is wasteful unless it benefits us or we sympathize with those it benefits.Scotty
    Absolutely, good point.

    I would just say that the vast, vast majority benefits from no tolls, and of those who don't directly, most would sympathise with the beneficiaries - family and friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain View Post
    Absolutely, good point.

    I would just say that the vast, vast majority benefits from no tolls, and of those who don't directly, most would sympathise with the beneficiaries - family and friends.
    Yeah but, if we pay tolls, the govt will have more $ to fix the roads, clean up the pollution and staff the hospitals with staff to treat the victims of road trauma and childhood asthma caused by motor vehicles. Now, there's a real benefit

    A case in point about the benefit of a toll is Sydney's M4. When they dropped the toll last year, the traffic went from being almost unbearable to completely intolerable. And that was with an effective toll of about 25 cents: imagine if were a few dollars that was dropped - it would be a total carpark.

    Anyway, this is so moot: it is obviously a political smear / fear campaign. It's like debating the merits of having a second moon circling the Earth...


    Scott

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