some help using two flashes?

[Ian]

i have a sunpak pz 40x as the main flash, and a hanimex xs 14 as a secondary flash ( it is left over from my 35mm days). plus i have been given a flash holder goes on the head of a tripod(nikon beleive it or not), and i use a canon 400d, go figure, now i tool some photos of a flower the other afternoon for a test run. and all of the 6 or 7 photos were a little dark exceopt one. now i had set-up the hanimex up on the tripod and the sunpak on the camera. me holding the camera about 4-5ft away and the hanimex on tripod about 6-18 inches away and not quite 45 degrees to my left. the one that was not underexposed was shot with just the sunpax on camera. the flash exposure on camers was set at -2/3 thirds of a stop. now those owning a canon will know what i mean. now my question is, is the hanimex useable with the digital flash? as the hanimex is from the 35mm days. will post two photos to show what i mean. ian(aka pappa smurf)flowers 001 copy #1.jpgflowers 010 copy.jpg

[MarkChap]

Lots confusing here Ian.

1 - The Sunpak is to suit Canon yes ??
2 - How did you trigger the Hanimex unit ??
3 - What were the camera settings ??

If one image exposed correctly, with just the Sunpak on camera then so should they have all exposed correctly whether you were trying to use a second or remote flash as well ??

[I @ M]

Ian, I will hazard a guess that the Hanimex is being triggered by the flash of light from the Sunpak ( simple "dumb" optical slave with no metering capabilities ) and the camera is receiving the light from back from the Hanimex and then cutting the light output from the Sunpak to attempt to give the correct exposure through the camera's metering system. That is if the Sunpak is a ttl compatible flash unit.
The image using the Sunpak alone shows overexposure and to me it looks more like either the flash unit had +ve compensation applied to it or it isn't metering properly with your camera.

I think you need to sit down and go through all the settings with the camera and both flash units in order to get things working properly. The Hanimex unit will be handy as an off camera flash but it will need to be run totally as a manual strobe.

[Ian]

thanks for for replying Mark i should have said the hanimex has a in built slave unit in it, settings are: photo #1 1/200th@f/6.3,iso 200, exposure bias 0.7, focal length 238mm, phoro #2 the same except iso 400, exposure bias nil, focal length 270mm. flash sync is is at 200th and downwards neglected to mention slave unit in hanimex humblest of appologies. the reason for asking is i have this distant memory of flashes used for film are not conpatable with digital is that right, shoild of asked that bit first sorry again . ian(aka pappa smurf) ps hope that helps

[MarkChap]

Film/Digital does not matter Ian, you are creating light to make an exposure.
I think where you are falling down is that there is no metering from the Hanimex unit and depending on the Sunpak it may well be as Ian has suggested.
I do rather think though, that the most likely scenario would have been to blow the exposure out when using using both flashes.
Not that I doubt what you say, but are you sure the under exposed image is the one with both flashes ?
The result of the second image, over exposure, is what I would have expected from the setup you describe.

Have read of the strobist site - http://strobist.com , that will help you get an understanding of what is happening.

I think you are going to have to go to using both camera and flashes in manual mode, calculate your required aperture for the amount of light and go from there

[MarkChap]

Looking at the shadows on the 2 images Ian, I am rather thinking the over exposed one is a result of BOTH flashes firing, but the shadow suggests the second flash was to the right not the left ??

[Ian]

thanks Andrew, yes to both slave and compatiblity ttl. i did have the flash exposure bias set at 0.7 on the first to reduce the blowning out in the photo, but not in the second. not sure whether the hanimex will trigger in manual mode. it has a switch for m or s does that help. like in my reply to mark i have vague memory about flash foe film not being conpatible for digital. ian(aka pappa smurf)

[Ian]

thanks Mark, for the replies, as to your third reply, hanimex to my left, sunpak on camera for both shots. first shot horisontal format, second shot vertical format. ian(aka pappa smurf)

[Ian]

Mark just had thought, in the second shot if the hanimex had fired would it not remove some of the shadows being about 6-8 inches away? ian(aka pappa smurf)

[I @ M]

Ian, you are introducing far too many variables into your experimentation!!!

Start again with a clean sheet and set and leave the camera shutter speed, aperture and ISO at a constant value and adjust the power levels of the individual flashes and observe what happens.

First up try just the Sunpak on the camera.
Find a dimly lit area to test in so that to obtain a correct exposure of the subject the light from the Sunpak is necessary.
Place your camera on a tripod, find a single point to focus on, set the metering mode to what ever is going to work best for the subject and the flash.
Leave both camera and flash exposure compensation settings on the camera at 0.
Start with a shutter speed of 1/60 and an aperture of F/5.6.
Take picture, observe the exposure level of the subject, if it appears overexposed, lower the power level of the Sunpak or vice versa.
When you have a power level set on the flash that gives you a "correct and repeatable exposure" then introduce the other flash into the same scene, placing it where it can be triggered by the Sunpak.
Set the power level on the Hanimex to around 1/3 power and see what happens to your image with the added light.
If you end up with a badly overexposed image there is simply too much light being put out by the Hanimex.
If you end up with an underexposed shot that can't be corrected by altering power levels on the remote flash then it is most likely that the added light from the Hanimex is confusing the metering system of the camera and you will have to run everything pretty much manually in the way of lighting.

[Ian]

thanks Andrew, the sunpak is the only one i can adjust the power on, the hanimex is just a stand flash with a slave. i have done alittle playing with the sunpak before. might have to do a bit more i think. thank you both for your time. ian(aka pappa smurf)

[Blueywa]

For a few hints on using flash/speedlights this man may be of assistance to you.

http://www.youtube.com/user/snapfactory

[Ian]

thank-you Blueywa, for the link, looks like the rest of the series could be good. ian(aka pappa smurf)