Why are "professional" photographers always so worried about "amateur" photographers for? The amateur price point customer...wouldn't (or shouldn't) be your customer base anyway.
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Why are "professional" photographers always so worried about "amateur" photographers for? The amateur price point customer...wouldn't (or shouldn't) be your customer base anyway.
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HUH?? This thread is not about being on AP every single day. Dreams are great, but dreams also need to be bound in facts, when they are turned into a reality. Most things are not what we dream them to be. Remember wanting to be a nurse, police officer or firefighter as a child? The reality is different to how we dream it. But I digress, this thread is s about photography as a business, and the perception that it is an 'easy' business to get into, and why, when the reality is that running a successful photography business is not easy.Originally Posted by Plonk
"It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro
Constructive Critique of my photographs is always appreciated
Nikon, etc!
RICK
My Photography
I havent read all of this thread, only the first few posts and then the latest ones. I dont know if my thoughts have been put up by someone else or not so appologies if I am repeating what has already been said.
I feel that a lot of people have been given a false sense of grandios bravado by the new era of digital cameras. Previously you could get very good SLR film camera, but if you didnt have half a clue how to use one, they were quite difficult to get a good picture from. My dad had a film SLR when I was a kid, and he would spend ages fiddling about with the lens and dials trying to get a good shot. Of course back then, you didnt know if it had turned out ok or not until you had put the film in and paid to have it developed only to find many of them over/under exposed and, if lucky, there might be a really good one.
Now we have digital point and shoots as well as digital SLRs. I bought myself a decent little Olympus C750 when we went overseas for the very first time and I got some great shots (well to me they were great) of our holiday. The digital camera "fixed' stuff that wasnt quite right and made the photos generally turn out pretty good. At least MOST of them actually turned out!!!and I could instantly see if it had and delete it if it hadn't.
I have since bought a DSLR but have no delusions about becoming a professional. I think what makes people think it is easy to be a professional is this. Most people out there have taken a camera and taken a bloody good shot of a landscape, a person, a car etc etc. Then they see these wonderful photos by people like Peter Dobre, Stavros Pippos, Steve Parish, to name just a few. "Hey thats a nice photo" thinks they, "I can take photos like that" and they go and get a mid range DSLR and snap off a few shots. The camera helps make their photos look pretty spectacular compared to their point and shoot camera (auto setting can produce some decent shots here and there) And their friends look at these photos and think they look heaps better than the ones they have taken with their 5 megapixal cameras and start raving about how great their friends shots are. Ego gets kicked into overdrive and next thing, "Hey I might take up photography full time". Any one can point a camera, but it takes inititive and perspective to capture a good photo (I certainly haven't learnt that art yet either by the way)
I have looked at lots of photos on here and thought "Gee why can't I get photos like that", or "hey I wouldn't have thought of framing that old shed window like that" etc
To me, being a good photographer also needs the person to be a bit of an artist as well. Some have to study it to get there, others just have a knack, abit like some need to learn how to play a piano and others can just somehow play by ear (mongrels!!!)
So I think that is why so many think that being a professional photographer is easy. They have this weird idea that all you have to do is print out some cheap business cards, grab a camera and go take photos, why not, thats what the professionals do isnt it???take photos???
A friend at work has a new grandchild. Her daughter in law found someone on the internet somehow who had advertised for taking photographs. The daughter in law thought why not, it will be good to get some really nice photos of bubs. Now this "photographer" was a student, a young girl about 18, (not sure if she is studying photography or not). She came over and did a photo shoot and took quite a few photos of the bub, which my friend showed me. Now one or two were quite nice, but there were some that were over exposed, some were fairly average. She had put up some sort of sheet up as a background but the background was not in the whole photo, so you could see what was behind the sheet. There was one taken of the mum giving the bub a kiss on the head whilst asleep, great photo, BUT the background was a glass sliding door??? and for this "photo shoot' she charged about $100.
The mum and my friend were quite pleased with their photos, but to me, they were not anything different than what I could have achieved. I think even I would have been a bit more careful about what was behind the subject.
So Rick, in answer to your question about why people think it is easy to be a professional photographer??? Well Rick, while there are people out there who are willing to pay people $100 to take fairly average photos of babies, weddings etc, there will always be average "professional" photographers out there who will think that professional photography IS an easy business, because all they did was advertise, take their camera out there and click away, and got paid to do it!!
Sorry for the long post folks
Fair enough. (by the way from a full time photographers viewpoint, part time photographers do not worry me at all, sorry. you simply could not do what i do, on the weekends, after work etc etc)
But why then, why do part timers and/or hobbyists, get all up in arms about how much (lets call them) 'professionals' charge? all too common to hear - "I could do that for half the price". Really? Could you? so why aren't you doing it then?
there is no such thing (in my world) as amateur price point customers. just ones who are willing to pay for your time and ones who arent. thanks.
Last edited by zollo; 01-03-2012 at 3:25am.
Successful People Make Adjustments - Evander Holyfield
Threadstarter
Maybe they are concerned about the quality of the work produced, and the perceived negativity that less-than-good photography might have on the industry as a whole. If anyone is providing a product or service at a price (any price), then there is an expectation of quality results that align to the price paid.
However, again, this thread is not about price charged etc. I was asking why photography is seen as an 'easy to enter' career path (have got camera, can charge people), rather than being learn the art of photography, and then when their photography has reached a good standard, consider a career as a photographer.
They might, but if they do, it's a bit of a holier than thou attitude for an unregulated industry.
Much like saying that someone with a ute and a lawnmower who charges to mow lawns, is worried about another guy with a ute and a lawn mower who charges to mow lawns giving the industry a bad name because he perceives that that guy doesn't do the edges as well as he does.
You know there are "Professional" lawn mower guys. I doubt they sit around all day wringing their hands in dire worry about being undercut by a schoolboy with a Victa cutting grass for pocket money on the weekend.
Maybe they should lobby govt to regulate the grass cutting industry?
Last edited by Bear Dale; 01-03-2012 at 9:13am.
I am all for gaining formal qualifications in photography and do wish it was a regulated industry. That would not change the undercutting though, thats done on a world scale basis these days ie contracts going overseas instead of local. However, it would help with the perception within some of the general public that pro photography is as easy as buying a camera. If you had to show paperwork or similar before you could call yourself a professional photographer for a contract/job I'm sure perceptions would change.
I hate getting into the whole 'amateur' doing a better job than the 'pro' argument. bores me. yes some amateurs with the same gear can do a better job sometimes/maybe. depends on the job at hand. does it worry me? no. keep up the good work. Make sure that if you charge, you would be happy receiving the work you put out.
I'll tell you what does worry me, when 'amateurs' that charge $$ get it wrong. when they leave clients unhappy, or when I see finished work that is clearly sub-standard (and this is more common than many think). its bad for the whole industry. tends to tarnish all those who charge for photography.
Hang on, what about "professionals" doing exactly the same thing? What do you think that does to tarnishing the whole industry?
That especially bothers me, however...
if they were professional in a multi faceted sense of the word they would not put out sub standard work or leave customers with any doubt about their professionalism. personally i have seen that those who do, dont last as full timers for very long. If you are relying on it for all of your income, not just doing a weekend shoot here and there, I 've found that you cannot afford to let shoddy work leave your office.
As mentioned, customer service needs to be a cut or two above also. I dont know many part timers who dedicate so much time as i do to meeting with clients, discussing, emailing, scouting, organising, printing etc etc its about the whole package.
Last edited by zollo; 01-03-2012 at 7:59pm.
I think that you are missing a point here...its that in general..people are not stupid..and most will see that a $100 session is very cheap..and expect a lower standard because of it...its like getting the Kid next door to clean you car for a Tenner...rather than taking it to a pro for a detail...your gonna see some difference between the two..but accept it cause you realise that you got a cheap job ....what pisses people of is paying top dollar and getting a crap job...
at the end of the day consumers are looking to save money, but still get a half reasonable result ..but I do believe the more these "Cheaper" jobs are getting done the harder it is for a pro to turn a coin.. that's not good thing as the Pros will diminish in number and possible push a pro job even higher if you want a top shelf Job done...this applies to all industry's I think..
in this particular industry.. blame that damn screen on the back of your camera..as without that a level of experience and knowledge would still apply rather than seeing you balls up and fixing it on the fly
Last edited by Tommo1965; 02-03-2012 at 9:05am.
yep Id agree with this....and it really comes home to roost when times toughen up...Im in the building industry..and that has suffered with cowboys doing pro Jobs for as long as "Adams" been about...but when times are tough..they get the flick first..... people like me on the other hand that are "Pros" remain in work even in tougher times like now....so do quality service and you'll be Ok
in my experience the fact is - if you put yourself out there as a pro photographer by charging for your time clients will still expect a pro job/client service, irrespective of the price point ie $10 or a $100...
so you need to charge to cover your costs. how anyone can deliver professional client service at the $10 dollar price point is beyond me - maybe their equipment falls out of the sky
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