Stay at home mums (and others) and photography as a profession

[kiwi]

Here you go, the answer is nigh

http://certifiedphotographer.com/

[davearnold]

A lot of interesting posts here,

Reading the first post, made me immediately think, when I was at a craft market a few weeks ago, and there was a few photographer stalls there, one had her camera there a 600D with 18-55 kits lens, I think in total there were 4 at the market, what interested me was the different way they were promoting there services, and really it comes down to that over image quality ( saying that, all the "displayed" photos were nice) some offered unique frames, others a box set, another just a CD of images.

Having recently tried to do some relative's "children" photos ... getting them to perform or even look in the same direction at the same time, never mind their facial expressions , before then taking into consideration, background, light and lens choice, was an unbelievable challenge..... so good luck to anybody who can achieve this, market it and also make money out of it, without a lot of experience or formal training.

From my experience as a stay at home dad, (was a few years ago now) there would be so many other ways to make extra $$$ .... I did this through a night job, and later ebay (which proved a good , reliable source of extra pocket money).

I think like a lot of industries .... e.g .real estate, car sales, mortgage broking, any party plan ...e.g. .most self motivated selling jobs.... it all goes well in the early days, using friends and families( who usually say positive things no matter what they actually think), but once you have saturated them, and have to find real customers ..... that is where reality BITES !

But as the saying goes "nothing ventured, nothing gained" ... if you have a dream chase it, you might be the one in a hundred (or is that a million) that achieves it!

[Bear Dale]

Here you go, the answer is nigh

http://certifiedphotographer.com/

Very often you'll find 'certifying bodies' that are set up to 'certify unregulated industries' as sometimes just lucrative entrepreneurial ventures.

[kiwi]

Of course, I expect that's exactly the case here

Maybe we could have a "Australian Photography Certified Amateur" based on the competition assessment of "advanced" - all we need is a logo for our websites

[I @ M]

Of course, I expect that's exactly the case here

Maybe we could have a "Australian Photography Certified Amateur" based on the competition assessment of "advanced" - all we need is a logo for our websites

A slight name change maybe but it comes with a handy acronym Certified Recidivist Amateur Photographer.

[Ms Monny]

Ok, here is my two bobs worth...

I think that most people coming into this field have NO IDEA what it takes to be a pro tog!! I had, in the past, thought that I could easily get into a photographic business, especially after my SIL said my photos were great and I should sell them......and no, they weren't of babes either LOL. My head swelled, with all my friends liking my photos, and I've had comments on my facebook from a friend, who is an artist, saying I should put them up in our town Art Gallery. THEN I CAME ACROSS THIS FORUM and everyone on here put everything into perspective! There is NO WAY I am at any stage to sell my images, let alone put them up in an Art Gallery. This is a good thing, don't get me wrong. The time and effort needed to hone the skills is paramount and I can see from all the posts within the different threads that it takes YEARS to perfect these skills (unless you have the time to go out 24/7 to practice). I am a semi-SAHM and with kids running around, the house to keep, cooking, and general house-wifey stuff, there is not alot of time that I can put into my photography. Another SIL said I should go to Uni and do the Visual Arts degree (she is doing hers with Jewellery) but, oh yeah, what about my family??? Only last night I was running around the back yard taking photos when I knew I should be inside getting dinner prepared - yep, our roast was late on the table!!!

I feel that to be totally serious about doing pro tog then you need as much time and committment put into it as possible, and SAHM/D's, in my honest opinion, just wouldn't have that precious time available to them. Practice now, for sure, but it probably can only come into effect once the kids have flown the coop.

I know I have missed the boat by about 20 or so years. I could have gone and got myself a career in Photography when I was young but I didn't. I now enjoy my photography for myself and anyone who wishes to see it. If I sell an image or two down the track, then fantastic; if I don't, I know why. I know now it doesn't take a DSLR and a couple of lenses to make you a pro tog, and it never will. I have been grounded by this forum and it has helped me realise what stage I am up to in regards to my skills. Good luck to the many who pursue their dream and I hope that they actually do go far and not get burnt in trying.

[Xenedis]

I think the definition of 'professional photographer' is very hazy at best, and undefined at worst.

Unlike traditional professional fields (ie, law, science, medicine, engineering et al.), there is no formal training one must undertake, nor certification one must attain, in order to declare oneself a 'professional' photographer.

Depending on one's viewpoint, a professional photographer could be someone who:

1. makes a living from photography;
2. has been paid at least once for a photoshoot;
3. runs a part-time photography business on the side;
4. owns a Canon EOS-1D or Nikon D3;
5. has done some form of photography course at univeristy or a private college; or
6. has simply declares oneself to be a 'professional'.

In different industries, the term 'professional' can have different meanings.

In photography, there are professional associations and other forms of membership (such as AIPP and CPS) which are mostly conditional upon the member meeting certain eligibility requirements, such as "deriving the majority of one's income from photography".

It's wise to remember that the fact that a person has a photography business, business name, ABN and a title of 'professional', doesn't mean the person acts professionally or produces professional images. Anyone can register a business name, and go about conducting business as a so-called professional photographer.

Unfortunately, many members of the pubic who require the services of a 'professional photographer' and don't understand the real value of actual professional photography, could inadvertently hire one of those budget-priced fly-by-nighters and end up with very mediocre images at best, or a disastrous outcome at the other end of the scale.

Until there is some sort of standard accreditation for people aspiring to work as professional photographers, many real professional photographers out there are going to be working in a market saturated with Johnny-Come-Lately Professional Photography-type businesses charging two thirds of bugger-all for extremely mediocre wedding photos, and being told by potential clients (if not completely overlooked) that their prices are too expensive. The net result is that good photography is devalued, and the perception that any schmuck with a DSLR can produce good images, will prevail.

[Longshots]

Ms Monny

Thats the best response I've read in a long time on a long debated topic.

Sure we all started from scratch. I'm no exception. But the time commitment, the energy to succeed in this game now, has always been intense; and while the business/industry continues to evolve, the amount of commitment and energy is intensifying.

The big issue is that there are plenty of new people entering the industry. Where they are in two or five years time is the real thing to watch.

Anyway, just wanted to say thank you for a thoughtful, and well written, response.

[colinbm]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here & possibly a clue too.
With all this enthusiasm & training & uni & degrees, nothing has been mentioned about getting employment with a tog & learning hands on.
All this self-taught is fine & you can't knock an education BUT to be taught by practical experience by a master, really can't be beat.
Col
PS No I haven't had any of this experience in photography (yes I am struggling), but I did get it in a number of other trades.
Col

[Bercy]

What great arguments in all directions. Because you get paid does not mean you are good at it. Because you did not charge does not mean you have less competence, training or skill. To be successful you have to know your business and know about business. Throwing a magnetic sticker on your Beetle and buying a camera does not obey the 5 P's of marketing. Most professions are now surrounded by a cloud of "me too" professionals - home designers just as good as architects, tax agents parading as accountants, we are the (enter name here) professionals, doctors who aren't doctors. One of the few jobs where you simply can't purport to be what you are not are airline pilots.

Real professionals have legitimate training, are preferably members of an organisation of peers, and have a body of professional work that sets them above the "me too" brigade.

The shopping mall leeches that suck on the vulnerabilities of passers by with their $250 gifts are professionals of another sort, and really give prostitutes a bad name. I have been photographed by professionals, and the difference is quite apparent. Owning a hammer does not make me a carpenter.

Sadly - it is very much up to the consumer to be able to differentiate the real professionals from those who charge for ineptitude. I have taken photos of youngsters before the school formals on a few occasions. The "professionals" took the photos at the occasion. The parents showed me the watermarked prints. They promptly wanted 16 CD's for the other parents. That doesn't make me a professional but it does mean you don't go for the biggest add in the yellow pages.

I listened to a "professional" talk about photography for half an hour about this and that and blah blah. And I asked a simple question...

"What is light?"

The "Professional" stared blankly and turned and started to talk to someone else.

I'll stay an amateur and try and get better and better.

[opi2kenopi]

So this is my first 'proper' post after my intro post yesterday. I find this topic interesting and very pertinent to my own situation. Yep, I'm a SAHM, and yep, one day, I'd love to get paid for doing the one thing that I love doing the most, taking photographs. I'm currently working very hard on my business plan (my husband is soon to be an accountant and wouldn't let me contemplate this without one), I have done more reading and researching about being a photographer who gets paid (professional photographer is such a controversial term these days, huh) than I care to write down on a timesheet, and in my previous life (before kids) I have worked in various fields that I believe will help me be successful.

I have never considered that this would be an easy way for me to make money. I'm in the extremely fortunate position that my income (or lack thereof) does not have a significant impact on our family's ability to eat every day, and so I am able to do this (almost) risk free. Except for my pride. Except for my desire to achieve 'perfection' (whatever that is to the beholder). I want to succeed and I am doing everything in the preparation stages to get there. I don't plan to launch my business until 2012 at the earliest, and only when I feel I'm ready, both as a business owner and as a photographer.

For the record, I was a 'photographer' LONG before I was a mother. And I really resent the term MWAC (not that it's been used here). I actually now feel somewhat uncomfortable getting out my DSLR at the playground for fear of being labelled as 'one of THOSE mothers'! But, at the moment, it's one of the few places I get to practice (as my husband works quite a few weekends at the moment, spare time is at a premium). How do I explain to people that I've been using a 'fancy DSLR' for quite a long time now and that I didn't just suddenly go and buy one because I had a kid?

Personally, I think my situation is probably kind of a dream situation for many of you. No pressure to make money (as such), and the freedom to pursue my passion/hobby as a career. Although, being an 'Army wife', living away from those I love, having my husband go away for months at a time when I had a little child, having to change jobs/careers every couple of years, uprooting my life every couple of years, possibly I deserve a chance to make a go at something I love??? (Don't cry for me , this life has it's perks, I'm just thankful that it's coming to an end soon and that I can finally pursue something for myself).

As for joining this forum, if I even knew how beneficial joining such a community could be all those years ago when I discovered my passion, I would have been here years ago. I really only decided to join because not too long ago I joined a food related forum (my other passions...cooking AND eating) and have found it to be a wonderful, supportive, collaborative environment. I have met up with some of the members and enjoy finding new 'friends' who have the same interests.

I hope (and I gather already) that I may very well find the same environment here.

So, if I don't post again for a while, I'll be buried up to my eyebrows working on setting up my photography business...lol

But first, off to find a forum to post a pic taken from my days living in Tassie...where my passion really took hold...how could it not???

[opi2kenopi]

But first, off to find a forum to post a pic taken from my days living in Tassie...where my passion really took hold...how could it not???

Oops, and by 'forum' I meant thread. Sorry, I hope you don't think I was gettin' all huffy and leaving to share my stuff elsewhere!!

[jev]

There still is a perception in people's mind that photography is easy. They have a special occasion or otherwise want pictures taken and there he is: The Photographer. (S)he drops by (or one goes over to his/her shop), out comes the camera and after a quick couple of words, snap snap, click klack ready, please pay on your way out the door. It looks as if anyone can do it, prices of "pro" equipment have dropped, once doesn't seem to need much else than a camera to take great pictures but you'll have to pay through the nose for them.

And than, yes, one goes out, buys a "professional camera" (note the quotes!), and snaps some keepers for the family album. See? Photography really ain't that hard!

Next step: shoot a couple of pictures from the next-door neighbor's kids in a cheap "studio" setting. Them pictures, they sure do look fantastic, eh? And people look and nod: "yeah, they are great!" and free, but that's not what "they" are telling you.

Driving a photography business at first sight seems pretty easy too. Keeping books is easy (//me hears "when the money keeps rolling out, one don't need books" from the Evita musical in the background). Bit of an administration, and that's it.

Before you know it, you have business cards and large stickers on the car. You feel like... ehm... a real photographer - now let the games begin!

And than, after just a couple of weeks, it hits you: it's NOT that easy. It takes a whole lot more skill to get that picture right all the time, especially in the blazing sun or in heavy rain - but you have to deliver! It's not as cheap to do when you calculate hours, equipment and include backoffice costs. (Private) customers are NOT as nice when they have to pay you for what you're doing. Where's the fun in shooting family number twenty-something in a row with crying kids that don't want to cooperate, a dog that is throwing up, the large woman wearing a miniskirt you wished you never saw and the guy that wants to be somewhere else entirely.

You know, when the fun stops, photography is just like... ehm... a real job.

And that is where it stops. Hopefully.
Amen.

[Terri]

What an interesting topic!

I guess this goes a little way to explaining why, out of all my favourite (better?) shots on my pbase site, it seems to be the couple of "snapshots" of my nephews that get all the praise from family!

Actually, this topic reminds me a little of a conversation I had with a guy who owned a secondhand bookshop. He said that people kept coming in each day and saying "when I retire, I'm going to run a secondhand bookshop"... considering he worked there 7 days a week he found that quite amusing!

[Gypsy]

I'm one of those mum's who picked up a DSLR after having my daughter and now running my own photography business from home.
I also did some photography years before kids, using the good old film SLR's and developing the negatives and prints myself in the 'old fashioned photoshop' ie. a darkroom. (Oh how I miss that!!)

But you know what?? I don't feel I need to explain myself. I see way too many mothers picking up a camera and trying to start up so-and-so photography and unfortunatly those people give the rest of the genuine people who do have a deep passion for the craft a bad label. But I know as long as I am doing this for the right reasons, and that I am generally passionate about what I do, and I put in the love and dedication to producing what I do, then I have just as much right as the next person. My husband and I started photography at the same time but he chose birds and landscapes as his genre while I love portraiture. He wouldn't have a bad word against him. yet I would just because I'm a mother with a DSLR!? LOL

Anyway.... enough about that. Just if you are enjoying it and doing it for the right reasons, then go for it.
Welcome to AP

P.S ... just because you mentioned about your food forum having wonderful support.....
My hubby & I started this site back in 2006 because we felt there was a lack of support for those entering the photography world. There were many sites for those at a professional level... but until you reached 'that level' you just didn't get the respect and support. The wonderful talented Mr Rick has taken over the reins a few years ago now, and since then AP has just grown and grown! He along with the fantastic staff who volunteer their time to keep this place running have done an amazing job. The support you receive here is fantastic. There's always someone here that will have the answers you need. There's people who are at all different levels, and people that understand your exact position. So I do hope that you find this site useful and supportive. I wouldn't keep coming back if I didn't

[jazzyjane1970]

I agree, but as someone new to this forum, I am using it to learn more about photography (through the learning plan). As a stay at home mum, I struggle to fit the time in to read the learning plan and work through that, let alone contribute to the forums also. I've been deactivated twice through inactivity, and try really hard to be active, but sometimes time gets the better of us all.

[jazzyjane1970]

I agree, that mums and dads can make great professional photographer, but what I wanted to know is why their is a perception that it is an 'easy' career choice, when reality is so different to that? How has this perception come to be, that its as simple as buying a DSLR and doing a course?

Rick, I don't see this perception out there. I'm a mum with a DSLR and I didn't buy the camera to be a professional photographer, more to improve the pics we were taking of our kids. I started to look into learning more about photography, granted, as a result of falling in love with photography and being told that my pictures were okay, but I'm not deluded into thinking it would be easy to go into business in this regard. As you have mentioned, there are a huge number of photographers out there. I think anyone who can't see that and still gets into it, is being a little shortsighted, and maybe it is this person who gives it a go and doesn't make it beyond the first year?
Would I love to be a professional photographer? Absolutely. Do I really have the talent? Not nearly so certain about this, despite people telling me that my pictures are good.

[ricktas]

Rick, I don't see this perception out there. I'm a mum with a DSLR and I didn't buy the camera to be a professional photographer, more to improve the pics we were taking of our kids. I started to look into learning more about photography, granted, as a result of falling in love with photography and being told that my pictures were okay, but I'm not deluded into thinking it would be easy to go into business in this regard. As you have mentioned, there are a huge number of photographers out there. I think anyone who can't see that and still gets into it, is being a little shortsighted, and maybe it is this person who gives it a go and doesn't make it beyond the first year?
Would I love to be a professional photographer? Absolutely. Do I really have the talent? Not nearly so certain about this, despite people telling me that my pictures are good.

Hi Jane, thanks for the post. Certainly if you ask me or any other photographers who have been around this forum (and others) for some time, it is a repeated concept. People posting saying they have JUST got a DSLR and are about to set up their photography business. It is this observation that I was referring to when I wanted to know why Photography is seen as an easy career choice. What makes people think buying a DSLR will allow them to start a photography business, with very little experience at taking photos.

My thread/post was not about those that venture into being paid once they have experience, rather it was about those with little or no experience, and they obviously perceive photography as an easy career path, or we wouldn't see these types of posts on this site, and others, so often.

[nicolef]

So??

I would say this is common in most fields. As a musician I always have people telling me they want to be able to play like *** and last a week until they realise it was harder than they thought. At the end of the day, if you persist and become good at it, you succeed.. if you are not prepared to put in the work and have a certain amount of natural talent, you fail. I would welcome as many people as possible to try the art and gain an appreciation of the challenges of the profession.

I also don't think it's a surprise that SAHMs are more regular offenders --> they are at a time in their life when they are taking a lot of photos AND they are at a time in their life when their regular careers are on a pause and there is an opportunity to explore other interests.

PS I've barely posted since joining - it's not that I don't want to, I just feel quite intimidated by threads such as these!! (and I've just been reading one on etiquette - golly gosh!!!) Will be making a bit more of an effort from now on and looking forward to getting to know you all

[ricktas]

PS I've barely posted since joining - it's not that I don't want to, I just feel quite intimidated by threads such as these!! (and I've just been reading one on etiquette - golly gosh!!!) Will be making a bit more of an effort from now on and looking forward to getting to know you all

Do not feel intimated Nicole. Just think of it that if we stopped having these discussions, how much more un-interesting would the site be? I see no need to shy away from a discussion that is relevant to photographers, just cause it may be intimidating, rather we should embrace these discussions and find out what everyone thinks. Broaching aspects of photography that are controversial is one of the things that makes photography an Art in the first place.