Banning live stock export-

[Scotty72]

I also tend to think that a blanket ban is not necessary...

However, any Australian individual or business who knows (or ought to know) that abuse is going on and continues to supply cattle to anyone who knowingly participates (or ought to know) in cruelty ought to face all criminal / civil sanctions both here and there.

You can't just close your eyes to abuse by saying - 'it's business' or 'they would just source from elsewhere.' Or, if we do, lets extend that amorality to selling guns to gangsters too.

How much can Australia's soul be bought by the devil for? $1 billion, 2 billion?

[Kym]

Fix the problem abattoirs, but keep the trade going.
A blanket ban is silly!
As Rob said less stressed animals are better eating, so it's in everyone's interest to look after the beasties.

I worked in the meat industry in the 90's (both live export and locally processed for export), When it's done right there are no problems.

Note to self: Get some scotch fillet for the BBQ this w/end.

[ving]

If I walked up to a knife shop, asked to buy a knife because I wanted to murder someone in another country: should the shop-keeper be in a whole lot of #### if he agreed to sell me the knife?


Scotty

if i buy a chicken from a farm and take it home to kill and eat is that wrong?
If i go to a chinese resturant and point to a tank of fish and say "i'll have that one" at which point it is caught, killed and cooked is that wrong?


cattle and sheep are not humans... cattle and sheep are bread to be eaten... this whole conversation is going to nothing but make more vegetarians

[Scotty72]

I am just as big a meat eater as anyone. My favorite animals come with a serve of fries and mustard..

But, there is difference between humane killing and the sadistic cruelty that was evidenced on 4 Corners the other night. The sight of that poor animal shaking in fear as it was forced to watch 4 other beasts being carved up in front of it... It was obviously in mental agony (as any sentient being would be). There is just no excuse for that. Ever..

if i buy a chicken from a farm and take it home to kill and eat is that wrong?
If i go to a chinese resturant and point to a tank of fish and say "i'll have that one" at which point it is caught, killed and cooked is that wrong?


cattle and sheep are not humans... cattle and sheep are bread to be eaten... this whole conversation is going to nothing but make more vegetarians

[Art Vandelay]

The one thing that really annoyed me was that the slaughter was not in accordance with the Halal procedures that are enforced upon Australian abattoirs,

Why does that not surprise me ?.

Good post.

I see your point of us not having the facilities now to process more instead of live export, but after seeing several large plants close down over years over here.. I believe we could have,, or should have been prepared to keep more of our processing here in Aus.

We are becoming more and more a nation of simply exporting resouces, rahter than value added products from those materials.

[Chilli]

The issue is not vegetarianism, ( ive never understood why people have issues with vegetarians anyway, people can choose to eat what they want, meat or no meat) .

The issue here is the cruelty to "living" animals. It is the ability to feel on ones skin that perhaps being dragged around by your nose or kicked in the head.......... hurts.

[farmer_rob]

Why does that not surprise me ?.

Good post.

I see your point of us not having the facilities now to process more instead of live export, but after seeing several large plants close down over years over here.. I believe we could have,, or should have been prepared to keep more of our processing here in Aus.

We are becoming more and more a nation of simply exporting resouces, rahter than value added products from those materials.

It's not only facilities. In our case, it is cheaper for the japanese to fatten the cattle in japan but cheaper for us to breed them. Hence, they spend half their lives in australia and half in japan. (Also, there is no religious aspect to it at all.) As well, the japanese look for entirely different cuts of meat, and also use quite different feeding regimes. It would be very hard for australians to get the high end meat sales without live export and processing in japan.

That aside, and regardless of the economics, cruelty and inhumane practices are not acceptable. However I do not accept that live export in and by itself is inhumane.

[ving]

The sight of that poor animal shaking in fear as it was forced to watch 4 other beasts being carved up in front of it... It was obviously in mental agony (as any sentient being would be). There is just no excuse for that. Ever..

but the shaking makes the meat tenderer....

[Scotty72]

but the shaking makes the meat tenderer....

There nothing I can say about such callousness and inhumanity... there are no words

[wmphoto]

I see your point of us not having the facilities now to process more instead of live export, but after seeing several large plants close down over years over here.. I believe we could have,, or should have been prepared to keep more of our processing here in Aus.

Couldn't agree more, plus it would be good for my business . Unfortunately labour (availability and cost) and the seasonality of this type of market doesn't make it viable. In the north west there are a few abattoirs that have been shut for decades because it just wasn't viable to process the animals here. Also, as farmer_rob pointed out, there are so many different requirements from each market you just can't keep up.

[ving]

anyone searched youtube for australian abbitiours?

the whole industry of cattle slaghter is pretty gruesome. I reckon if i had to do it myself in order to eat some beef i'd go vege!

anyhow back to youtube... I found one where the cow was carraled into a tight spot, clamps came around its neck and a "stun gun" applied to its head. the floor lowers and the cow sits on a conveyor belt waiting for its throat to be cut... while its sitting there it takes in the wonderful view of other cows hanging upside down in vraious states of preparation (looked like they were being bled with thier heads off or something.

its a gruesome place to be, even in australia. It interesting to compare our slaughter stations to those of indonesia. we quite obviously have an much more high tech setup and one that they simply cant afford... but no, i dont agree with the kicking a whipping that occured. is it a cultural thing? if so are we sending a message that indonesian culture sucks?

more to think about...

[farmer_rob]

I have been present at the killing of some of our animals, and for the subsequent butchering. Death is not pleasant, but when killing is done properly, it is humane. Don't forget that animals (and humans) do thrash around after consciousness has gone.

[Kym]

I have been present at the killing of some of our animals, and for the subsequent butchering. Death is not pleasant, but when killing is done properly, it is humane. Don't forget that animals (and humans) do thrash around after consciousness has gone.

Diito. Back when working in the industry I spent time at the front end of the abattoirs.
The normal process is to knock (stun) the animal before cutting the throat.
I.e. the Animal is unconscious when killed.

The exception is halal when the animal is knocked after the throat is cut.

[HotRod]

Wow what a read just seeing everyone’s comments ... Me well I feel sorry for them and there are better ways to do it but why should we pay for it, most of the abettor’s feedlots and large farms that are set up for export in Australia are foreign owned we are selling out to the rest off the world

[Sezzy]

Why does that not surprise me ?.

Good post.

I see your point of us not having the facilities now to process more instead of live export, but after seeing several large plants close down over years over here.. I believe we could have,, or should have been prepared to keep more of our processing here in Aus.

We are becoming more and more a nation of simply exporting resouces, rahter than value added products from those materials.

Borthwicks in South Western Victoria closed down a long time ago, but live exports (mostly sheep) are a big part of the town's income (lots of farmers). In saying that, a friend has a husband who works at Dinmore up here, he was off work more days than on, as the abattoir didn't have enough 'traffic'.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat a lot of meat, my pets are my kids, and the more people I meet, the more I like my 'kids'...watching that documentary brought me to tears, mostly because I can't believe that anyone would be that cruel to an animal, regardless of whether it's for a meal or otherwise. I am still trying to get the image of that poor beast shaking out of my head. It's eyes are haunting...and I found it a little too disturbing.

I grew up on a farm, and as a kid I played a part in the sheep slaughtering process, this kind of barbaric treatment NEVER occurred. A blanket ban on all exports hurts both Australia as a whole and the farmer as an individual, so it's not economical at all for the 'hippies' to suggest...I would be happy if they banned exports to those abbatoirs that are not appropriately tooled up to humanely slaughter these animals.

[Bennymiata]

It seems your wish was granted Sezzy (thank goodness).

From the reports I heard this morning, only certain, humane abbotoirs will be getting our live exports from now on.
These abbotoirs wil also HAVE to have an animal rights person there to make sure they are OK.

[Tannin]

thats 12% of the GDP you are signing away!

Remind me to buy carpet from you. I'll ask for enough to do a small mat in the toilet, and wind up with enough to carpet the entire city!

12%? What planet does that figure come from, and can you see it on a clear night?

[Tannin]

we quite obviously have an much more high tech setup and one that they simply cant afford

Q: How much does a stun gun cost?

A: About as much as one cow. That's right, the price of one cow.

[Mark L]

12%? What planet does that figure come from, and can you see it on a clear night?

To be fair, that was addressed in post #11, and ving acknowledged the wrong figure in post #14.
I agree with your next post about stun gun. One wonders what the animals go through before they get stunned though.

[Scotty72]

Borthwicks in South Western Victoria closed down a long time ago, but live exports (mostly sheep) are a big part of the town's income (lots of farmers). In saying that, a friend has a husband who works at Dinmore up here, he was off work more days than on, as the abattoir didn't have enough 'traffic'.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat a lot of meat, my pets are my kids, and the more people I meet, the more I like my 'kids'...watching that documentary brought me to tears, mostly because I can't believe that anyone would be that cruel to an animal, regardless of whether it's for a meal or otherwise. I am still trying to get the image of that poor beast shaking out of my head. It's eyes are haunting...and I found it a little too disturbing.

I grew up on a farm, and as a kid I played a part in the sheep slaughtering process, this kind of barbaric treatment NEVER occurred. A blanket ban on all exports hurts both Australia as a whole and the farmer as an individual, so it's not economical at all for the 'hippies' to suggest...I would be happy if they banned exports to those abbatoirs that are not appropriately tooled up to humanely slaughter these animals.

Whilst I acknowledge your sincere, sensible post, I do take issue with one aspect. If we acknowledge a hideous wrong (I think we can agree what was shown on 4 Corners was wrong), we can not excuse, justify or ignore it by claiming it will financially disadvantage us.

Sorry, but, if some traders, farmers, truckers etc miss out: bad luck. This is a WRONG. In the same way we don't consider the losses of publicans when they are banned from selling alcohol to alcohol abusers: we should not consider those who will miss out when we ban selling animals to animal abusers. Just where would we draw the line: should we consider that casinos will miss out if problem gamblers are excluded (a major source of their revenue). These are all legal products that we all agree must have controls over whom they are sold to.

We should stop all trade until these places are brought up to scratch - they prove they have gold standards before a single beast is sent..