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Thread: Council sponsered photo shoot

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    Council sponsered photo shoot

    I have been approached by a local council arts officer to photograph a local event in a few weeks time.
    The event will take about 1 1/2 hours to cover plus I expect a few hours more to select & process images and then provide the selected images to them.

    My concern is that I am a hobbyist photographer and although it is always nice to make a few dollars as I go along, am I taking income from the photographer(s) that are usually employed by the council to cover this type of event?

    Or should I just go with the flow and make a few dollars.

    There is also the caveat "I dont have a lot of dollars", so they may be expecting that I do the job for beer money!
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    Go the Rabbitohs mudman's Avatar
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    I would suggest that you get the money details sorted out BEFORE the shoot.
    it is not your fault you got the work. the council approached you, which is tough luck for other photographers.
    also you are not a charity institution and their ' we don't have a lot of maney' could be a ruse to make you feel guilty
    about charging what the job is worth.
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    Thanks Mudman, I reckon if I was to do the work I would expect a minimum of $300 for my time. My rough totally uninformed estimate of what a pro would charge would be in the $500 area for 3 hours work I reckon.
    I am quite comfortable in providing good quality work with editing if required, so I have no intention of selling myself short.

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    Remember the 'worth' of the photos is not based on your time only.

    Among other considerations ought to be the worth of your photos to the council / what are they using them for / who holds copyright etc?

    For example: if the council intends to sell you prints as postcards / in a book or; if they use your pics as a part of a tourism campaign (or what ever)...

    If this is the case, the $300 is less than peanuts.

    If it is just because they want to make a visual record of a community event (non-profit) then, $300 may be ok.

    If it is because they are raising money for primary school aged orphans with cancer living in sewers then, $300 may make you look like a greedy so-and-so.

    Try to find out the potential value of these pics.

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    The project is a visual record of a community event.
    I have asked what they expected to pay a "pro photog" and have been told the usual guy is booked for the day and he charges around $110 per hour just for time at the event. No editing required, just hand over the high res images.
    This seems to be rather on the cheap side of things. My estimate of what a pro charges looks a bit silly now or maybe the other guy is under valuing himself and his industry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_m View Post
    .. or maybe the other guy is under valuing himself and his industry?
    Or maybe he provides services worth $110 p/h.

    Ask for however much you want / feel you are worth, doesn't really matter what others are charging or whether or not a 'pro' would do that kind of work for them in the past - they approached you for this job as mentioned above.

    For the circumstances you've described $300 sounds pretty reasonable.

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    $110/hr then hand them over definetely sounds on the cheap side.
    Make sure you point out all the value you give them for the extra you want to charge. (ie finessing in photoshop). While you are there, look for ways you can add value and give them more than they usually get.
    Exceed their expectactions and you will have yourself a regular client. Then put your price up again!
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    Word of caution - often councils don't have a lot of 'easily spent' money, nor do they have a vast publishing empire. The budget and rate for the pro tog sounds very plausible to me.
    Regards, Rob

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    I would think 100 or so is top dollar for this sort of stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    I would think 100 or so is top dollar for this sort of stuff
    I'd agree. $100 an hour for the shooting and then no editing I'd say is pretty good money for this type of shoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_m View Post
    The project is a visual record of a community event.
    I have asked what they expected to pay a "pro photog" and have been told the usual guy is booked for the day and he charges around $110 per hour just for time at the event. No editing required, just hand over the high res images.
    This seems to be rather on the cheap side of things. My estimate of what a pro charges looks a bit silly now or maybe the other guy is under valuing himself and his industry?
    While he may be undervaluing himself, its also a case of supply and demand. And as you're experiencing he can be replaced. If I were you I would go for the $300. It doesnt seem that cheap, but I would ensure that what might be an hour and a half doesnt start to drag out to two and half hours. So my suggestion is definitely sort out these details before you start.

    I would suggest you supply a written quote for $300 for an hour and half, and then state that it would be an additional $90 for each half hour or part there of.
    From a working pros perspective, that is not an unreasonable charge.

    And bear in mind that your being told by a prospective client what another supplier charges ( can you rely on them being entirely honest and transparent ? remember that this is business and I've heard plenty of claims which fail to display the whole story - ie how much his other charges might be).
    Last edited by Longshots; 26-03-2011 at 11:47am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    I would think 100 or so is top dollar for this sort of stuff
    Well you're wrong. No where near top dollar - in factm this type of comment simply annoys me, because its based on nothing. And guessing is different to thinking. Sorry to be blunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb45pz View Post
    I'd agree. $100 an hour for the shooting and then no editing I'd say is pretty good money for this type of shoot.

    Again same comment I've just made to Kiwi - on what basis are you agreeing ? Opinion, perceived experience or factual experience ?

    Any insight into whats involved from a working photographers business ?
    Last edited by Longshots; 26-03-2011 at 11:53am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James T View Post
    Or maybe he provides services worth $110 p/h.

    Ask for however much you want / feel you are worth, doesn't really matter what others are charging or whether or not a 'pro' would do that kind of work for them in the past - they approached you for this job as mentioned above.

    For the circumstances you've described $300 sounds pretty reasonable.
    Sensible advice, and spot on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshots View Post
    Again same comment I've just made to Kiwi - on what basis are you agreeing ? Opinion, perceived experience or factual experience ?

    Any insight into whats involved from a working photographers business ?
    Merely an opinion as to what hourly rate I would be prepared to work for. I know on my calculations to charge what I charge for a family shoot session and a basic package I'm only getting about $60-70 an hour once I've done editing and consultations etc etc. The money only goes up if I can sell higher packages. If shoot and burn, decent record of events etc is what is required and there isn't significant editing or consultation then $100 an hour ish is pretty good money.

    We are making a few assumptions though ie, the material isn't for mass marketing etc, but I think that's a pretty safe assumption given the information here.

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    "what hourly rate I would be prepared to work for" That is I agree the key

    "once I've done editing and consultations etc etc " So you're assuming that there is nothing before the event, no post production, no delivery, no travel, no prior discussion time, no etc etc at all connected with this style of job ?

    I'll repeat the question to you more directly - what experience have you had of shooting something like this on a professional basis ? And you're right, this has nothing to do with family portrait sessions which if you fail to sell yourself well, or you fail to produce some emotive capture of their loved ones, then you aint going to manage anything other than a basic package sale. That comes down to selling a loss leading package - which is how 99.9% of most family portrait business models are designed - "get em in cheap and upsell them on the portraits". So a fairly lousy comparison I'm, afraid.

    Surely you should be asking yourself wether you're undervaluing yourself ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshots View Post
    I'll repeat the question to you more directly - what experience have you had of shooting something like this on a professional basis ?
    You're right, no experience with event photography whatsoever.

    Certainly making sweeping assumptions here regarding travel etc (it's the local council isn't it? or perhaps it's not the OP's local council)

    For the most part with threads like these we don't have all the required information so we make some assumptions. If we aren't to make assumptions then we all sit back and ask for loads of info etc etc and conversation goes nowhere. The OP didn't really ask for a quote merely some opinions on what may be a reasonable rate.

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    yes, I'm making an assumption - that there would be time involved in travel - even if thats local, because there will be. My one assumption is that the event is not at the OP's house.

    And I know that because I've shot a lot of these type of events, and there is always going to be more time involved than the organiser predicts. Is that an assumption or a view based on experience ? Its based on a series of percentages based on experience.

    And if you had some experience you wouldnt refer to that assumption as sweeping.

    Going to an event, and even shoot and burn, will without any doubt at all include time both before and after.

    I thought from reading the op's question; that they were seeking opinions on what a reasonable rate is ? And my logic is that the best people who could answer that would be people who've had experience - after all that is what they were seeking.

    Perhaps they should just ask strangers in the street, because unless you've had at least a fraction of experience, I for one cannot see any logic in commenting on what you think is reasonable rate, when you and others have zero experience. Sorry I just see no logic in that at all. I dont mean to sound harsh or blunt, but simply trying to be realistic.

    To me thats like me offering a review on a camera I've heard of, never touched and read a little about on other internet forums - that would be utterly pointless.
    Last edited by Longshots; 26-03-2011 at 1:46pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshots View Post
    Well you're wrong. No where near top dollar - in factm this type of comment simply annoys me, because its based on nothing. And guessing is different to thinking. Sorry to be blunt.
    Double post
    Last edited by kiwi; 26-03-2011 at 1:53pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshots View Post
    Well you're wrong. No where near top dollar - in factm this type of comment simply annoys me, because its based on nothing. And guessing is different to thinking. Sorry to be blunt.
    William , Im not guessing, not in my council anyhow.

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