CC required please.

[Camerashy]

Don't forget also that the CC threads are the main area in the forum for viewing members photos, and I for one as a relative newcomer learn a lot about photography just by looking at the photos and reading what others say about them. Just because no CC is being posted by the viewer does not mean that people are not learning.

[gerry]

Real thread: (or a semblance of one)

Great phot

Wow, love that colour

nice shot, thanks for sharing

its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length

super

nice photo Jim, good to see you out again



which comment is more valuable - even though there's no fluffy words in that comment ?

looks like a flickr image comment list

If a post already has a consructive comment, which you think is relevant. Do you move on ? Say I agree ?, or if it's genuinely a good shot, to you add a quick compliment anyway ? Even though you're really only saying good shot but wording it differently.

I summed up what I thought about critique over in this thread

However I think its important to remember that if a image is posted in a CC forum, then both the poster and viewer have obligations, the poster, imo, should be looking for CC, posting 15 pictures in a thread imo is not lookign for CC, give people viewing your images some clues, you expect them to spend time CCing your images maybe try and explain why you struggled with a shot or why you choose a particular PP style... On the viewer/CC side what does a 3 word response give? besides increasing your post count and possibly stroking the OP ego...

Keep photography forums for getting quality CC and feedback and flickr and the like for showing off your images

[juliem]

New to photography and the forum. But a +1 from me on Kiwis comment. I am not always confident to cc as I dont know the terms... etc. etc.... but I recently posted my first photo and as a beginner the advice and comments were great.
So thanks Kiwi, even a newby has an opinion and out of those 100s of ways I know how a photo makes me feel, what I like, and even what I dont like.
My goal..... have a go!!!

[Ackie]

I have been a member of the forums for over a month now. Not a day goes by when I wouldn't look at the forums 5-10 times. ( iPhone app is awesome).
But I have only posted a couple of images.
I feel no incentive. I am trying to learn by asking for CC. And ways to improve.
My latest post has 72 views and 1 comment. Surely someone has an opinion to help me out...

[Roosta]

Happens on all forums. reply rate is generally 10% or less of the view rate.

Thats an interesting stat Rick, I see the views and replies in the forums, but never stopped to do the math. When you say on all forums, is this a feedback issue that worries you in regards to AP?

[Roosta]

I like birds a lot, so I'll often look at a lot of posts in the bird section just to see the bird. If there is an obvious crop or reason why I like a photo, I'll say so.

Bingo. 'If there is an obvious crop or reason why I like a photo, I'll say so" Good to see, doesn't need to be technical.

[Roosta]

I agree with you two (Dylan"DTOH"and Dave "Ving") The evoking of a emotion, isn't that what we try to achieve in our photography pursuits? The SH*T seems to fit and work in most situations, I'd rather that than, as you put it Dylan, the not so nicely phrased CC, blunt as Duane put it earlier, but I believe to give and recieve is better than nothing at all.

[Roosta]

Don't forget also that the CC threads are the main area in the forum for viewing members photos, and I for one as a relative newcomer learn a lot about photography just by looking at the photos and reading what others say about them. Just because no CC is being posted by the viewer does not mean that people are not learning.

Understand what your saying, but the idea of this thread was to see if there is a standard reson for what seems to be a general lack of CCing at the present time.

[Camerashy]

Understood Roosta. If you are looking for a reason for absence of CC here's my theory after just a few weeks here. The general quality of photos is so good on this forum that it's scaring off people from posting an average pic for CC, especially newer members. Who has the courage to post a "point and shoot" type image in the company of such illustrious photographers? The result is that the CC threads are being populated mainly by experienced (and excellent) photographers who others, especially beginners, dare not or cannot criticise, and the CC threads have become a poster gallery of superb photography. My suggestion to overcome this would be to have something like a new thread dedicated to posting ONLY beginner photos for cc, regardless of topic. Otherwise it's a bit like a beginner being asked to hang a picture in a photo gallery alongside an Annie Leibowitz. Do any other relative newcomers feel the same way?

[Roosta]

My suggestion to overcome this would be to have something like a new thread dedicated to posting ONLY beginner photos for cc, regardless of topic. Otherwise it's a bit like a beginner being asked to hang a picture in a photo gallery alongside an Annie Leibowitz. Do any other relative newcomers feel the same way?

Some interesrting points there, I wounder what the Mods and Rick would think of your idea?
The quality of most images has alot to do with the availability and use of quality gear, the price now on a good entry level DSLR And or (Point and Shoot) has dropped significantly and allows the entry level user a much better chance to capture a quality image, BUT, in saying that, if you never get out of AUTO, you wont get and appreciate what the DSLR can do when under your own control.IMO.

Thats when I found I got some great advice from AP Regs on this site, So I guess it's up to the individual whether they want or feel the need to put their images up for CC, but it should atleast evoke some emotion in us and we should be able to pass on that emotion by way of CC, dosen't always need to be techincal.

Also as "gerry" has said "However I think its important to remember that if a image is posted in a CC forum, then both the poster and viewer have obligations, the poster, imo, should be looking for CC, posting 15 pictures in a thread imo is not lookign for CC, give people viewing your images some clues, you expect them to spend time CCing your images maybe try and explain why you struggled with a shot or why you choose a particular PP style... On the viewer/CC side what does a 3 word response give? besides increasing your post count and possibly stroking the OP ego..." and I agree.

[gerry]

I probably sound like a broken record now, but I think you would get alot more quality critique if you say post a single image (ok lets say a couple), say your best from a session for critique. Anything past 4 images in a thread for me is just too hard and it becomes more about sharing images then requesting critique, note there is not necessairly anything wrong with posting a lot of images in a thread i just think it will dilute your responses to nice series etc.

I don't think banning the 'nice shots' phrase etc has any real significant benefit, its like putting a bandaid on a major underlying problem hoping it will fix it.

Take for example another popular photography site, you are not allowed to post a response less that 15 characters or else it does not count, in essence (imo) that has not meant people write better critiques, just fill it up with rubbish.

I think if you want critique (irrespective of your skill level), engage with the end user, ask for specifics, start the dialog and i reckon you will end up with a more meaningful thread and one which you will get better critique and a more fullfilled learning experience.

[ameerat42]

I was thinking about this one last night and I feel that a simple change in wording might invite more responses and perhaps generate less fear.

I have always made a distinction between using the word "Critique" and the word "Feedback". I prefer to use "Critique" as little as possible.

Critique can be related to criticism or someone being critical and can have some negative connotations for some people. The word "Constructive" is added for specification and I think people still focus on the "Criticism" factor and might not see the "Constructive" of it so much..

Feedback is something that is more often viewed as coming from a place of positive support and assistance in helping someone improve.

Yes. It's just a word and in my experience with teaching and personal training I have found that I can relax the paradigms a bit and allow people to feel safer in asking for it and in-turn offering also.

Perhaps "CC - Constructive Critique" could be "PF - Positive Feedback" instead. Then it's very clear where our comments to one another are coming from.

My Two-Bob's Worth.

My 2c reply:
Do not advocate a change in wording, but get it right and be comfortable with it. IMHO "feedback" is a fuzzy word that hardly substitutes in meaning for the likes of "critique" and "constructive criticism". After all, there are "negative" and "positive" feedback varieties. By all means use "feedback", but not to supplant other equally valid words.
(BTW, the strength of the AUD these days could make my 2c worth almost equal 3c.)

[ameerat42]

I have been a member of the forums for over a month now. Not a day goes by when I wouldn't look at the forums 5-10 times. ( iPhone app is awesome).
But I have only posted a couple of images.
I feel no incentive. I am trying to learn by asking for CC. And ways to improve.
My latest post has 72 views and 1 comment. Surely someone has an opinion to help me out...

Don't feel let down. It happens to everyone. I can't recall how you post, but asking for something up front usually helps, something like...
"I did this pano using [... some aspect of the procedure/intended outcome/statement relevant to the picture...]", and then seek some feedback/comments/opinions/hints/leftovers from the table.

After all, you do not take pictures just to get a response from a forum, (but I think you know that).

[ameerat42]

Understood Roosta. If you are looking for a reason for absence of CC here's my theory after just a few weeks here. The general quality of photos is so good on this forum that it's scaring off people from posting an average pic for CC, especially newer members. Who has the courage to post a "point and shoot" type image in the company of such illustrious photographers? The result is that the CC threads are being populated mainly by experienced (and excellent) photographers who others, especially beginners, dare not or cannot criticise, and the CC threads have become a poster gallery of superb photography. My suggestion to overcome this would be to have something like a new thread dedicated to posting ONLY beginner photos for cc, regardless of topic. Otherwise it's a bit like a beginner being asked to hang a picture in a photo gallery alongside an Annie Leibowitz. Do any other relative newcomers feel the same way?

I hope not! As a forum, people should be able to present/get responses no matter what level of photography they may be at. If this what you say were true, then this forum would be falling down in aim big time.