CC required please.

[Dan Gamble]

Perhaps it should be CF - Constructive Feedback. Not all feedback needs to be positive. Generally I agree with your post.

Yes. It ALL needs to be positive. Negativity is not constructive in any way shape or form.

Intelligent people should be able to provide useful information without delivering it in a negative fashion.

[junqbox]

Yes. It ALL needs to be positive. Negativity is not constructive in any way shape or form.

Intelligent people should be able to provide useful information without delivering it in a negative fashion.

Sorry, don't agree with you here. Not all feedback needs to be positive, otherwise you end up with a whole thread of platitudes of 'I like it' 'pretty colours' etc, when there may be a glaring element within the photo which could do with something pointed out. Intelligent people have the ability to put it politely though, rather than taking a negative tone, as opposed to a negative reaction.

[Dan Gamble]

Sorry, don't agree with you here. Not all feedback needs to be positive, otherwise you end up with a whole thread of platitudes of 'I like it' 'pretty colours' etc, when there may be a glaring element within the photo which could do with something pointed out. Intelligent people have the ability to put it politely though, rather than taking a negative tone, as opposed to a negative reaction.

I just feel that the distinction is; Commenting that a photo "has a good concept and can possibly be improved by..." and then explaining the how/opinion/technique is more constructive than saying "it's bad" and "you're doing it wrong".

The two methods could both be offering the same useful information and you can ensure that the first manner of delivery will be received more willingly and very likely be of much more use to that person. The person providing the feedback is likely to be heard and respected all the more for it as well.

How would you prefer to receive advice being offered to you?

[junqbox]

the ability to put it politely though, rather than taking a negative tone, .

You might have missed this part of my post

[Duane Pipe]

Well of late i haven't CCd many images due to being busy and only having enough time to browse the forum, but in the past I have commented where I could and mainly on things I can either relate to or know what advice to offer in the way of improvement.
Personally I have found that the responses to most my threads have been answered with good and helpful advice, Even if it is blunt and straight to the point... Kiwi , but thats what its all about.
So feel free to CC couse I can take it

[Mark L]

Commenting that a photo "has a good concept and can possibly be improved by..." and then explaining the how/opinion/technique .....

Sounds like Constructive Feedback to me.

[Dan Gamble]

Sounds like Constructive Feedback to me.

Yes, and delivered in a positive manner. It's in the delivery. Glad you agree.

[Sobriquet]

In a completely different field assessing people we used Commendations (say something nice first) then Recommendations (ways to improve). I won't CC unless I can say something nice first and then offer a suggestion. Sounds very much like what is said above. The problem with forums is that the nuances of communication are lost (tone, posture, inflection of voice etc) and so people can be flamed so very quickly when it is perhaps not deserved so many opt not to say anything. It is also very easy to lack confidence and feel like an imposter if you offer criticism, the subjectivity of our passion does not help this at all. As Thumper says "If you can't say somethin' nice don't say nothin' at all." Walt Disney Bambi ??

[Dylan & Marianne]

"If you can't say somethin' nice don't say nothin' at all."

If we all abided by that, then sadly, noone would be improving.
It's just how you phrase the CC when you come across an image that you think has missed the mark that can be said "nicely" or nastily

I've had some people say I've "RUINED" photos from excessive processing
Perhaps a way to say 'ruined' without making the recipient feel small would be to say that you prefer the original for reasons X Y & Z
Then there's the S H ...T sandwich approach to CCing :

I like <insert reason> that you've done with this photo (bread slice)
However, I think that you could improve it by <insert reasons> (the S H ...T)
Once again, good effort <insert comment of encouragement> (bread slice)

[ving]

first up a small criticism... there is no gravy option in your poll.

I CC from time to time, usually if the photo evokes a strong opinion of some sort. lets face it, as much as i like macro a bud is a bug is a bug. some are colourful some arent and the photo is well focused or not... there is usually little to say about this type of photography from my IMO unless the tog has tried somethign really different (and this goes for alot of genres)

[kiwi]

Real thread: (or a semblance of one)

Great phot

Wow, love that colour

nice shot, thanks for sharing

its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length

super

nice photo Jim, good to see you out again



which comment is more valuable - even though there's no fluffy words in that comment ?

[ving]

Real thread: (or a semblance of one)

Great phot

Wow, love that colour

nice shot, thanks for sharing

its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length

super

nice photo Jim, good to see you out again



which comment is more valuable - even though there's no fluffy words in that comment ?

they are all of pretty much equal value. its nice to know if ppl like your photo or not and yes also helpful to know where you may have gone wrong.

[Roosta]

I know some people aren't as articulate as others when it comes to providing their opion, whether it be of a technical nature or maybe what the image does for them, what emmotion it evokes personally. I can see Dylans point on the "sandwhich" method, which has merits and also it can be used as a filler, like tops/nice/love it, but could you have. Tell us what you really feel, please. As others have mentioned, the dirrect approach works for them, it's OOF, no DOF, TOO Dark what ever, but maybe not put across in a sensitive way, but thats the articulation I refer to, but atleast it's CC, as has been mention, not always warm and fuzzy, but it should be constructive, should it not?

[Dan Gamble]

Real thread: (or a semblance of one)

Great phot

Wow, love that colour

nice shot, thanks for sharing

its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length

super

nice photo Jim, good to see you out again



which comment is more valuable - even though there's no fluffy words in that comment ?

It's a tough one. Personally - all are valuable in a way... I can see where you're coming from with the " its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length". It's excellent information. I'm just probably trying to generalise given the diverse range of people who are AP members and post in the CC forums. We do need to consider who we're delivering the information to and how they might receive it or be able to grasp it. Of course.

Yet generally speaking I would imagine that people would (generally) be more receptive as a whole to "Great shot and it's a little soft (name place). You could correct that by adjusting focus/aperture." And then link to the library where the other information that you've stated is explained in more detail and with information they can use rather than just " its out of focus, keep your shutter speed up over 1/focal length". What's that mean if you don't speak tog-lish? ( Tog-lish... I like that.)

It's only useful for some and to a certain level. In addition: If people wish to help out then it's good to also show people how they can help themselves in the future. And we have the means to be able to do it here at AP.

It might take a little longer to type and if we're willing to take the time to "CC" then it should worth doing it in a way that will support them in learning how they can improve their skills as well as encouraging them to do it at the same time.

People generally don't like being told their wrong either.... It's a human thing I guess.

[kiwi]

You can't say it's a great shot but out of focus, I think that's an oxymoron

I think people need to look in context of all the comments and not just one line

[Art Vandelay]

If a post already has a consructive comment, which you think is relevant. Do you move on ? Say I agree ?, or if it's genuinely a good shot, to you add a quick compliment anyway ? Even though you're really only saying good shot but wording it differently.

[David]

Went neutral and take the sandwich approach.. A, like this aspect (even if its just the composition or framing of the shot. or the colour tones) . .B, ..could have been improved by x and C. .. this is how I suggest you can improve X next time. Simple, not offensive, constructive critique .. its not rocket science if you think about it for a second.

[mpb]

I guess this poll is a classic example, at the time of posting there were almost 500 views and only 41 votes. I must admit I did not vote because none of the options really applied to me.

I provide comments when I think they will be of benifit only.

I sometimes find it difficult to find something constructive to say. This is due in part to my own lack of knowledge and experience. Sometimes it is because I am just looking, and frankly, too lazy to provide comments. I am trying harder to comment.

[mongo]

It is a fact – Mongo can not help himself ! He usually says too much – much of which says too little. However, he tries to be constructive- worst case scenario, he will have a bit of a giggle with the poster and others if the circumstances warrant.

Mongo is surprised at the relative high look rate ending up in a low response rate. As Rick said – about 10%.

Sometimes it is better to acknowledge the poster by saying something than not acknowledging their efforts at all. This does not mean you have to candy coat it – be honest but be constructive and polite in that honesty. Even if you have to say you just don’t get it or you do not like it and why

One quick observation: - new members (particularly those seeking as much CC as possible) should all think about having their “edit permission” say “edit OK – please provide details” if they really want some CC in their early days. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words and being able to demonstrate your CC in words and picture is much easier and quicker to provide (and thus more likely) than having to ask permission and wait for a reply etc etc etc. If you do not want to change your edit permission generally, then, make sure you include an invitation to edit for that particular post in your post.

[jasevk]

If a post already has a consructive comment, which you think is relevant. Do you move on ? Say I agree ?, or if it's genuinely a good shot, to you add a quick compliment anyway ? Even though you're really only saying good shot but wording it differently.

Nice comment