Just a rant...

[Ross the fiddler]

I'm actually rather cheesed off right now... At a few things! After going through a fairly lengthy process of identifying my fixed costs, sale costs, allowance for expenditure etc etc, I'm finding that I'm far more comfortable in quoting people my standard prices, even people I know... But I'm also finding myself increasingly frustrated when potential clients suggest what they consider a fair price!

For example, I had a plus sized model approach me for a shoot to supply images for a piece in an online magazine... In lead up to a talk she's been asked to deliver in the US. Her reply to my quote was that it was much higher than she expected. So I ask what her budget was, to which she replied "around $50". I asked her to reconsider her budget, and she came back with $200, which was to include hair and makeup, with unrestricted use of 50 high res images.

Another was a request for a quote from a friend of my brothers, for their wedding. After sending a formal quote detailing apotheosis particulars, including a modest discount, I received a reply stating that they were shocked that they weren't getting mates rates since they know my brother...

Another recent one was a query which was referred to me via another 'photographer' whom I know, asking how much I would charge for a portrait session with her family, and supply of all images on disc. After replying with my price, the client went back to the other 'photographer' and booked a session for $80, and was supplied with 200 images on CD a week after the shoot...

I know it's been discussed time and time again, and it comes down to the fact that most people cant see the value in photography these days, but I just wanted to rant and vent my frustration! I accept that some people won't believe my services aren't worth what I'm asking for, this seems to be a common theme among many photographers I speak to... but seriously, to be asked to work for peanuts, even after you explain that you actually have costs is just plain rude IMO.

So how do you handle these types of queries?

I can understand your frustration as customers (clients) don't want to think that your time is worth money & if a full time job, needs to keep the wolves from the door. I do musical instruments (repairs & sales) & have my hourly rate, sometimes I will discount, but if they don't want to pay, there are others that will. We have to live & have enough to fund our hobbies too.

[I @ M]

So how do you handle these types of queries?

Ask them if they shop around for a plumber who does mates rates at 5.00 pm on a Sunday arvo when their hot water service just burst.

[Wayne]

I have never received a govt benefit of any kind, and if I were to lose my job, I am satisfied that I could find alternate work in plenty of time before I run out of $$ and assets, so yours and every other tax payers $$ is safe from me.

I work for one of the worlds largest miners, mining a commodity that is mined globally, and often in countries where labour is much cheaper, far less govt regulation etc and effectively the cost per tonne to get the mined product to the customer is somewhat lower. How do we stay in business in Australia? Well the goods are in the ground and you can't simply move them offshore to where labour is cheaper.
Some would argue that you could bring cheaper labour into Australia, but many miners have skills and experience to perform an often dangerous job that few imports could perform safely and efficiently without years of training and experience. Believe me, if miners could do it they would have done it already, mining is a greed that cannot be satisfied.

How can you claim Australia employs less people now than 10 years ago? Please provide me with those statistics from the ABS or other reliable govt source. The population of Australia has increased somewhat during the past 10 years, so what you are saying is that every additional working age adult that makes up that population increase is unemployed? Unemployment rates have been at their lowest in years recently.
And are you suggesting most meaningful jobs will cease to exist and automation will take over or the jobs will go offshore? Many jobs cannot be automated and result in cost efficiencies, and even if those jobs go overseas, then you could always follow them overseas too. Remember skill, training, experience and talent are what many jobs need and you simply can't get a monkey to do anything and everything.

When Australia is a country where the status quo is that we can no longer afford to buy goods, then the world will be a place of global famine. Remember, what goods/services cost are only relevant to what a market will bear, and when the market has no money, prices fall and those profits come down followed by wages and the cost of materials as a by product domino effect. What something costs today is only related to it's cost today, and when goods/services can't be sold because of the high cost, then people will start to work for less and prices will come down to meet the money available in the market.

[Redgum]

Wayne, now I understand your argument. Mining is the wealthiest industry in this country financed almost completely by overseas funding/investment and an industry, with the exception of a few, sends its profit directly off-shore. Mining in Queensland boasts 73 of the top 100 wealthiest people in the state. That's not a political statement, just fact. I didn't quite expect your question about employment (it is common knowledge) but what I meant is that the number of full time positions in this country over the past decade has fallen by two thirds. These jobs and more have been replaced by part-time work (in most cases less costly - think of bankers) but the overall hours worked per capita has reduced. Aging population comes into this as well, as does part-time working partners. This gives us a disparity between profit and wages where profit has increased at a much greater rate than wages and the reason why individual debt is now nearly twice what it was a decade ago. People have to borrow more now to pay for housing (and cameras) and other things.
When you talk about automation, yes, that's part of the issue and proof of that lays in the internet. For instance, people on this forum and elsewhere buy their cameras primarily over the web whereas 10 years ago they would go to a shop. If you think of major retailers that means the ten staff they use to employ are replaced by one person on the internet which ties back to my comment regarding employment reductions earlier on.
Your comment on the status quo and no longer being able to afford goods is literal, not evident in Oz yet but very visible in the USA with 10% unemployment and more bankruptcies per year than our entire population. There are more people in poverty in the US than populate our country but the rich are more wealthy. It is almost a certainty that we will follow to one degree or another over the next few years. Our per capita debt already tells us that and with relative wages dropping and costs soaring it can't get better.
Anyway, I'm not a doomsday person and I'm sure with good leadership this will rectify itself but we do need to consider overall where we spend our money because sending it off-shore just for the sake of the "best" deal isn't going to solve anything. Nation before self might sound a bit old fashioned but it is the truth.

[ricktas]

I am closing this thread. It has been bordering on personal attacks, and the mods and I are watching a few members. If you keep it up, you will get a ban issued.