r33 error in manual mode

[fimmwolf]

So I was all keen to get down to the bay at 5:30 am and take some sunrise shots.

After reading lots of pages aperture, f-stops, shutter speeds, and white balance I figured I had a vague idea of what to do.

Camera: Nikon D90
Lens: Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8 (no filter)

Settings:
camera body on M
shooting mode dial on M
Lens f-stop @ 2.8
ISO @ 200
White balance @ 2500 k
shutter speed @ 2 seconds


and what happens ?

r33 flashes in the bottom of the view finder and the camera won't take a shot.
(also, the flash button when pressed didn't bring up the flash)

So I set the body, and shooting dial, to "auto" and everything works fine.


So what did I do wrong? (besides getting out of bed @ 5 am :P )

[ricktas]

Your lens has an 'aperture' dial on it, which was not locked at f22. Your camera body cannot control the aperture on the lens unless the lens aperture dial is 'locked' at the f22 end.

EDIT: Oops, See AK post below, I was thinking E33.

[arthurking83]

That's a dreadful time Mr Wolf 5AM... That's why the D90 is playing up! Who in their right mind would be up and outta bed at that time 'o the day. My D300 refuses to operate before approximately 8AM(I think).

Anyhow. I'm pretty sure that the r33 message is not an error, it's the space remaining in the cameras buffer. ie. you have the camera set to shoot 33 frames continuously. This value is user settable.

Why your camera has 'locked up' in Manual mode is beyond me tho!

Technically, in Manual mode you should be able to take a shot even without a lens attached.(well at least my D70s does that, and I'm assuming that the D90 will as well)

r33 message will(or should) always appear when you half press the release.. this is only indicating to the user what stage the buffer is at. As you shoot, the r value decreases.

Now the manual mode issue....
First up, have you re tried it all? Have you also tried any of the other semi manual modes(Aperture/Shutter priority or Program mode).

Could have been just a simple 'frozen moment'. Camera/lens interface problem.. or whatever.
I'm assuming that the lens is set to smallest aperture(largest number) as the camera would never work in any of the auto/semi auto modes.

One problem I could think of, in why it wouldn't allow the exposure in manual mode is that you hadn't focused. That is, if the camera is set to only expose when focus is confirmed, the exposure will be locked. Setting the A/M focus switch on the body to M will relieve that issue. As for why the flash wouldn't raise... once again... (5AM!.. getting up and out of a cosy little receptacle to be greeted with the waters edge!! .. Not for me either! I can therefore understand the flashes resistance to operate from a philosophical point of view.. but not quite yet from a technical point of view. )

Things to try. leave camera as is to emulate this morning's performance. Hopefully the exposure will again be locked.(try not to focus). Then, acquire focus.. and try again. Then set to manual focus mode in camera.. and so on and so forth.
Playing with every possible settings is a good way to get accustomed to every nuance that the camera has to offer.

[fimmwolf]

you have the camera set to shoot 33 frames continuously.

that's odd though because I did the two button reset thingy before I configured the settings I wanted to use.

Technically, in Manual mode you should be able to take a shot even without a lens attached.

After reading your comment I tried it without a lens and it appears to work. Even more interesting is that when the lens is removed, the flash button works properly. Could there be something wrong with the lens ?

I'm assuming that the lens is set to smallest aperture(largest number) as the camera would never work in any of the auto/semi auto modes.

Yes I changed it back to f/22 after putting it in auto mode.

I will have a look through the manual to see if I can find that buffer thing you mentioned. I will also see what happens when I use a different lens with the same settings.

thanks

[chamellieon]

There are technically "two" manual modes on the camera - which one you're referring to, I don't know.
There's a M-Manual Focus, this normally appears as a switch around the collar of the lens mount, - this should let you take a photo regardless of whether tis focused or not.
And then there's the M-manual mode on the camera - as a shooting mode. This is where you adjust your aperture, shutter speeds and ISO - plus how +/- exposed. It is possible that when you held down the shutter button, your camera couldn't focus - if you were in just M mode on the camera, with still an S or a C on the focus modes. R33 will appear when you depress the button, in this sense, I'm thinking that youre on C - for continuous focus (normally used for firing off, 33 shots)

[fimmwolf]

Ah, I think I know what I did wrong. You mentioned the focus mode selector (at the front near the lens mount) I had it set to manual (M) but I think for an AF lens, I should have had it set to AF.

There is no S or C focus mode on the D90, I did see those on a picture of a D80 (google images )

I'll try again and see what happens with the focus mode set to AF

thanks

[fillum]

Yes I changed it back to f/22 after putting it in auto mode.

This sounds like you were trying to set the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens when in manual mode - is that right? As Rick said, AF lenses should be "locked" at their minimum aperture (f/22 here ?) even for manual shooting. The effective aperture is then set with the control ring on the camera.



Cheers.

[kiwi]

plus, dont shoot landscapes at f/2.8 or preset to 2s....for best sharpness use F/16 or thereabouts, tripod mount, set your ISO to iso200 and let the shutter speed need what it needs to be to get a good exposure (use your LCD and histofgram to check this). Manually Focus on a point roughly 2/3rd into the frame

[arthurking83]

Ah, I think I know what I did wrong. You mentioned the focus mode selector (at the front near the lens mount) I had it set to manual (M) but I think for an AF lens, I should have had it set to AF.

....

Not necessarily!

I think with the D90 you choose focus mode via the menu or via a function button(user configurable), not via the A/M switch on the camera body.

if the camera is set to AF-S mode(single shot AF) as opposed to AF-C mode(continuous focus) then by default, the camera has to acquire AF and no changes made to the scene or composition for the release button to activate.
That is, if you're in AF mode(not manual) and you AF at some point, and not expose, but before exposing you alter a setting like AF/metering square or aperture or shutter, then the release is locked until you AF again.
in Manual focus mode with the camera's A-M switch you don't get any restriction with the shutter release, but you are on your own in terms of focusing. If the lens has a auto/manual switch as well, I think it works in the same manner as the body switch, but I can't remember.
On any CPU type lens, whether AF AF-D or whatever and an aperture ring is available the aperture ring should always be set to the smallest setting and locked there(should be a small locking tab to lock it in place).

I just tried to play around with my D70s and my only AF-D lens. The combination of CPU and aperture ring confuses the camera if you operate the aperture ring manually(ie. move it from the locked smallest aperture value). if you disconnect the CPU contacts from the camera tho(tape) to mimic a non CPU'ed lens, then the camera will operate in Manual mode only.
It's hard to remember all of this as the D300 works differently!
There should be an error message on the top LCD screen which should indicate fEE tho .... The r33 will intermittently alternate with the number of exposures remaining, and hence on a different part of the upper LCD screen.
The fEE error is indicated where the aperture value would normally be shown.

So it was my error in assuming that even with a lens attached the camera will still allow exposure, the CPU in the lens won't allow it.
if you had a non CPU'ed lens, like an Ai/Ais type lens, the release would have allowed you to shoot.

[fimmwolf]

This sounds like you were trying to set the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens when in manual mode - is that right?

Yes you're right, that's exactly what I was attempting to do. I'd even read this post elsewhere on the net:

"To fix that problem with 50mm f1.8 lens, detach the lens and set the aperture to f22, lock the lens aperture by pushing the red switch downwards, attach the lens to the camera body (don't forget to hear the lens click, else u will get f-- error again) and finally unlock the lens aperture and it works normally.

But it didn't seem to make sense at the time to lock the lens aperture when the point of manual mode was to have complete control over all settings. I just didn't realize to use the control ring.

plus, dont shoot landscapes at f/2.8 or preset to 2s....for best sharpness use F/16 or thereabouts, tripod mount, set your ISO to iso200 and let the shutter speed need what it needs to be to get a good exposure.

Thanks, I'll try this (still waiting on my tripod to arrive at the moment though.)

@arthurking83 I'm gonna have to read your post again tomorrow when I wake up, (kinda tired now) I think I did read somewhere that the Ai type lens was not compatible with the D90 (I could be wrong though)

Cheers guys

[arthurking83]

..... I think I did read somewhere that the Ai type lens was not compatible with the D90 (I could be wrong though)

Cheers guys

Pre Ai is almost certain not to be compatible, some can be, but most are not!!
Ai and Ais are all compatible, but not fully functional. You get no metering and you have to use the aperture ring to set aperture, this limits your choice of aperture value to whatever is available on the lens(either full stops of half stops.. definitely no 1/3rd stops(ie. f/6.3 and so forth).
You still have correct operation of the aperture by the camera, but part of the issue is you won't get things like Auto ISO and any of the programmed modes. Operation is fully manual, exposure is operator controlled(not camera) focus confirmation dot works in the vf(but of dubious assistance wide open).
There are some benefits in using non CPU'ed lenses in LiveView mode too, but these benefits are kind of obscure for most people.

[kiwi]

No chance to get a good low-light shot without a tripod, best wait. In the interim you could rest your camera on a beanbag or jacket and use the timer I suppose

[fimmwolf]

Thanks kiwi for the clarification on the Ai lenses. I'll just wait for the tripod I think.

(For a brief moment I had this silly notion of dragging one of those lounge bean bags to the beach......lol )