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Thread: A few questions about first paid photo shoot??

  1. #1
    Member Bliss87's Avatar
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    A few questions about first paid photo shoot??

    Hi
    I was just wondering if anyone is able to help me out with a few questions?
    A friend of a friend has offered me a job shooting about 10 Girls in the adult entertainment industry for their website and business cards,
    I will be doing about 3-5 shots of each girl for their profiles on the website which will be done in a studio and a few group shots on the beach for the business cards.
    Will I have to have them sign release forms I'm sure there will be a few nude shots so is there any other legal documents that I would need I live in QLD?
    Also she insists on paying me I am no where near a professional I have only done a few unpaid shoots for friends but she said she loves the work that I have done how much do you think I should charge her?
    I know how much professional photographers hate it when beginners ask questions like this (as I have seen on other forums) but any help would be great!
    Thanks

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    Hi and fistly, welcome to the site.

    Just a reminder about Rule 23 in the site rules

    Requesting/Providing Financial, Medical or Legal Advice on Ausphotography:

    Australian Photography is a website with broad topic coverage. However, when it comes to medical, financial and legal advice, it's always recommended to seek advice from a qualified professional, rather than asking about it on Australian Photography. As such, Australian Photography takes no legal responsibility for posts seeking or providing Medical, Financial or Legal advice. Members use any advice provided via Ausphotography at their own risk. The site owner, moderators or members cannot be held liable for any Medical, Financial or Legal advice posted on the site.
    P.S. I have also moved the thread to a more appropriate spot.
    Last edited by maccaroneski; 17-12-2010 at 11:47am.

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    Account Closed Wayne's Avatar
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    If I could shoot naked girls all day, I'd do it free

    Ok, now seriously..

    First, it is annoying when someone joins the site and their first post is to ask for help to make some $$ when you have so far contributed nothing to the community at all.
    Whatever you think your time is worth. As far as model releases go I assume they are all adults in the eyes of the law, so they can enter into agreements etc. If their image or likeness is used to promote a product or service, then they must grant permission for that, and the best way is a written model release. Given that you know what the intended output is for, you should obtain and file the release to provide some protection for yourself.

    Get some legal advice if you want to be certain of your responsibilities.

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    I'm sorry Tony, but surely

    a) a properly qualified professional photographer should be able to answer this type of question - which is one asking an opinion on what to ask,

    and

    b) the question seems very sensible - to seek different opinions - this is a photographic forum where questions, answers, opinions are I thought encouraged ?

    Why would this question result in a rule reminder, when so many of these questions have been asked recently, without such a response ?
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    you will definitely need a model release, and also maybe a written contract of the whole job

    the adult entertainment industry is a fickle one, as many many girls who have done it will have their photos resurface somewhere and come back to haunt them in the future - through either misuse of it, or a misunderstanding of who owns the rights to what etc

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    I think the question here from us should be ...what gear do you have? If you are going to do this shoot justice, you need lights as well as camera, a good understanding of using flash/lights to get the lighting right on the girls. You also need reasonable post processing skills to get the results that the client is likely to expect. After all they want to present their girls in the very best way!

    I would suggest as a minimum you work for $100.00 an hour, include your processing time etc in all this. Work out how long everything is going to take you and then set your fee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshots View Post
    I'm sorry Tony, but surely

    a) a properly qualified professional photographer should be able to answer this type of question - which is one asking an opinion on what to ask,

    and

    b) the question seems very sensible - to seek different opinions - this is a photographic forum where questions, answers, opinions are I thought encouraged ?

    Why would this question result in a rule reminder, when so many of these questions have been asked recently, without such a response ?
    The rule reminder here, was in relation to the question regarding legal advice for Queensland, as the thread started asked.

    Will I have to have them sign release forms I'm sure there will be a few nude shots so is there any other legal documents that I would need I live in QLD?
    Last edited by ricktas; 17-12-2010 at 12:55pm.

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    best to say nothing other than get public liability insurance if you intend to do a paid shoot.
    Last edited by Longshots; 17-12-2010 at 2:38pm.

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    I understand the rules and I have emailed a couple of professional photographers I just thought i'd get a few opinions from other photographers as well,
    she wants to do the shoot on Sunday so I want to get as much information as possible so I can get a good understanding of what I need to do in the little time I have.

    I have the Nikon D3000 Twin lens kit with 18-55mm and 70-300mm lenses nothing special just something easy for me to start off with. I was planning on shooting children and families in Natural light so I havn't bothered getting any lighting equipment but I am hiring a studio which apparently includes all the lighting and flash equipment I need along with someone to show me how to use it all.
    Honestly I wasn't planning on starting paid work yet but this will give me a great oppertunity to learn a few things and gain some experience.
    also I'm sorry if it seem as I've just joined to ask for help to make some money which is definatley not the case I'm just freaking out!!!

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    Ok, you need to include the cost of the studio into your quote as well.

    however, if you are freaking out! I would suggest you are not ready to undertake this job, so perhaps politely decline but ask if you cannot be the 'assistant' to someone experienced who can do this shoot, and see if they cannot find a professional to do the job for them. This might sound blunt, but if you are freaking out now, what are you going to be like during the shoot?

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    I dont think I am ready for it maybe if I had more time to prepare myself it might have been a different story but I have told her how i feel about it all and she said I will do fine and she will not take no for an answer.

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    Sounds like my Partner!! BTW , what day and where are you doing the shoot, I'll be out Sunrising on Sunday , Maybe I could combine the two if you need a hand , Seriously
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    Do you have to charge ? maybe just recover your costs at this stage, might take the pressure off a bit. Someone in a studio showing you how the strobes work, doesnt at all mean showing you how to use them to effect....anyhow...good luck and remember to post your results here
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    Account Closed Wayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bliss87 View Post
    I have told her how i feel about it all and she said I will do fine and she will not take no for an answer.
    Nobody can make you do something you don't want to do here, it is up to you. Think, will your friend be annoyed if you don't do a job that she and the girls are happy with, and will she and the girls be more annoyed if they have to then pay an experienced professional and waste their time doing it a second time?

    It smells to me (purely an assumption on my part) like your friend may know or reasonably know the cost to hire an experienced professional to do this job, and, is simply looking to skimp and get it done for peanuts. If you have expressed that you feel you can't do the job adequately and your friend is still insisting, that is a poor business decision to push you IMHO.

    The fact you have the most basic of SLR equipment, no lighting gear or experience using same (you said you need someone to show you how to use it) and the fact you are most unlikely to understand how to use that lighting gear effectively the first time you get to use it, this is destined for almost certain failure.

    I make no apologies if the above is not friendly or warm & fuzzy enough for some.
    Last edited by Wayne; 17-12-2010 at 2:46pm.

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    Just because I'm scared doesn't mean that I don't want to do it like I said its a great opportunity for me to learn a few things and gain some experience and if she thinks that I can do it then why not try. Its my first real photography job of course i'm going to be nervous. we'll see how it goes...

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    Jeez and I worry with my experiance about doing a Wedding Hope you've got the reflectors the assistant , Remote triggers and extra flashes on hand and the rest of the stuff

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    I would most certainly want to have all parties involved with your first undertaking aware of your capabilities, your concerns and definitely their expectations.
    A contract is absolute. You can clearly state your job description, your detailed hours, and have all the shots required BEFORE you start. (Obviously to work out your hours)

    There is a LOT of legal jargon in a commercial photography contract. You must understand every single clause and be able to explain what they mean. Once the client signs it, the quote included, you are bound to uphold your responsibilities and fulfil your hired role as photographer.

    I'm just painting a picture here, as you are dealing with 1:the contact, 2: a group of models, 3: advertising agency, 4: print house, 5: expectations, 6: you are ultimately responsible for the end product being sought.

    Things could get complicated. But, if you're up front, honest about your capabilities, equipment and post skills, they accept, well it's all up to you.

    From what you stated regarding the shoot 3-5 shots per 10 girls plus group shots:
    I'd be personally looking at 15 hours as a starting point. This would be me, and that would be on the go, and flat out processing (the level and expectation of touchup in processing…. for this instance I'd image quite high!)
    Setup 30 mins
    10 girls @ 15min ea 2.5hrs
    Beach shot 1 hr

    Processing:
    Sorting to final 60 images 15 mins
    Initial RAW processing 2 hrs
    Viewing with client 1 hr+
    Processing and Retouching 6 hrs +
    Output 1 hr.

    $100 hour, looking at initial quote of $1500. Id' reasonably expect to be a final estimate though more like $2500 once the real hours of the whole job were configured.
    Oh, and I'd have to pay an assistant too, and hire some extra strobes for use on the beach that are battery powered…. more bucks there. It's blowing up to around $4k now.
    Go for it, and good luck!

    Oh, yes, have public liability & Indemnity insurance and please, consult a lawyer before you do anything (you can add these extra costs into your estimate as it's a large shoot of a specific nature)
    Hope this info was helpful.
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    Your technical and creative skills are the least of your challenges. I know this part of the industry very well (but from another perspective - film). Just how well do you know your friend? Is she a long time or recent acquaintance? Is this an agency gig or simply a low key local event? Who's responsible for the event organisation? (the shoot)
    If the object of the shoot is for a charitable calendar or something like that let your friend take the lead and organise the legals - just exchange a simple letter of agreement with her. If it's an high end agency shoot just make sure you're not being used in the wrong way.
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    Have you shot in a studio and used studio lighting before?
    No.

    Do you have the appropriate gear to take good, usable photos of these girls?
    Not really.

    Do you know what your time is worth?
    No.

    Do you have the appropriate experience with people photography to do these girls any justice?
    Highly unlikely.

    I'm not being mean, but at this stage, I doubt you'd be able to pull off a shoot like this properly. You sound like a complete newbie and whilst that's be NO means a bad thing, I don't believe in jumping into a shoot like that without some experience behind you. Indeed, it does sound like your "friend" has seen you take maybe a couple half-decent pictures and has probably thought s/he could get a cheap set of pictures to use - it may be that you're being taken advantage of.

    To be really honest, I would suggest perhaps do a couple of workshops to at least get the basics of lighting and intimate portraiture as well as get up to speed with the legal requirements of your state and what rights you have before you tackle this.
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    and it aint as easy as it may look........

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