Bad customer/ payers

[GoldenOrb]

So out of those that make a coin or two from photography and the like...

Who are some of your worst payers??

Not asking any specific names rather just private/ individual customer or private/ govt commercial and what field.

Our normal practice with this business is to get payment before or upon handing over the item. Occasionally, due to short time frames we have had to invoice and await payment.

There are obvious risks when running a business, minimalising those is what will save you.... also taking deposits

With the previous business we were caught out with a another business owner given us a stolen cheque, which is stupid... for those that know me, they will understand

That was a private customer, but we had some really big contracts with international firms Aust/ Nz and UK and must say, one business come really close with me flying to the UK with "Captain International" (my hockey stick).... I could have flown over there and back and still had a heap of money in my pocket from what they owed.

What is your experience, did you have to involve debt collectors or take court action??

[ricktas]

I have a clause in my contracts that states:

"Any and all costs associated with the collection of any unpaid monies in relation to this contract will be borne by the client. This includes but is not limited to debt collection agency costs, court lodgement costs, or actual court costs"

I have found that as soon as you tell them they need to pay or it goes to a debt collector, and that instantly an extra $300.00 will be owed as they signed a contract stating they would pay any and all costs, I quite often get payment.

[kiwi]

bizarre question

[GoldenOrb]

I have a clause in my contracts that states:

"Any and all costs associated with the collection of any unpaid monies in relation to this contract will be borne by the client. This includes but is not limited to debt collection agency costs, court lodgement costs, or actual court costs"

I have found that as soon as you tell them they need to pay or it goes to a debt collector, and that instantly an extra $300.00 will be owed as they signed a contract stating they would pay any and all costs, I quite often get payment.

yep I had that also for the last business and only ever had to enforce it twice, once for a govt agency and once for the idiot with the check which I was standing out the front of the court house and gave him one last chance, where he then paid straight away.

Just wish people would pay when the are s'posed to. Its not hard, if they cant afford it... simple.... dont buy it

At the same end.... I am aware of the risks in running a business..........

[JM Tran]

from my experiences

Commercial/Editorial/Fashion - never had any big dramas so far, knock on wood

Weddings - IMO the worst clients are Viet wedding clients - because they see me as their 'kinsman' it does not give them the right to boss the hell out of me and my assistants, or take a few generations to decide to pay the remaining fee, or make ludicrous demands 'ie. photoshop my tattoo out in every single photo out of the 600 submitted', blah blah

my favourite and worst Viet client was a bridezilla in Melb - day after the wedding she came over with her groomsman and groom demanding all her photos right now, with a portable hard drive in hand. I said they are RAWs only and wont be ready for a few weeks. But they got angry and abusive, and I didnt want any troubles and just gave it to them - and then she goes home and complains she cannot open them hahahahahaha! Makes you wonder what sort of person she is as there were many tables at her wedding empty due to her own friends and grooms friends deciding not to turn up

when you shoot enough weddings you will see a plethora of nonsense and ridiculous things, and see the good and bad sides of people very quickly.

[GoldenOrb]

bizarre question

not overly bizarre... Its just something on my mind.. I do design work, pay premium costs for a premium product for cliental, just like to know why is it that people are always on your case to get the job done, just delay paying you. Im also just wondering if its me or others in the same boat

theres obviously no dodgy people in kiwi land

[kiwi]

none that im prepared to publicly bleat about anyhow

[GoldenOrb]

none that im prepared to publicly bleat about anyhow

fair enough, thats why I suggested no names, just group types.

[kiwi]

ohh cool, stereotyping and generalisations, my favourite game

[GoldenOrb]

from my experiences

Commercial/Editorial/Fashion - never had any big dramas so far, knock on wood

Weddings - IMO the worst clients are Viet wedding clients - because they see me as their 'kinsman' it does not give them the right to boss the hell out of me and my assistants, or take a few generations to decide to pay the remaining fee, or make ludicrous demands 'ie. photoshop my tattoo out in every single photo out of the 600 submitted', blah blah

my favourite and worst Viet client was a bridezilla in Melb - day after the wedding she came over with her groomsman and groom demanding all her photos right now, with a portable hard drive in hand. I said they are RAWs only and wont be ready for a few weeks. But they got angry and abusive, and I didnt want any troubles and just gave it to them - and then she goes home and complains she cannot open them hahahahahaha! Makes you wonder what sort of person she is as there were many tables at her wedding empty due to her own friends and grooms friends deciding not to turn up

when you shoot enough weddings you will see a plethora of nonsense and ridiculous things, and see the good and bad sides of people very quickly.

Ive only done one wedding for a mate... been asked to do another 2 but am avoiding their calls like the plague. Got asked to do another for a friends daughter... thank christ I didnt do that one as last I heard they are trying to take him to court

I have been on the other end of weddings and doing just what you have said..... removing tatts, cloning people to drop 30-40 kgs, removing little jimmys finger from up his nose......

Ive seen some bad shots taken as well, or the photographer has taken them on film... then lost it with no back up.....

I sort of figure unless the bride is happy..... your not going to get any satisfaction.. Mod edit: sexist comment removed

[GoldenOrb]

..... removing tatts, cloning people to drop 30-40 kgs, removing little jimmys finger from up his nose......
)

Just with that comment, permission is always sought from the photographer/ copyright holder first as well........

[JM Tran]

ohh cool, stereotyping and generalisations, my favourite game

ahhh how about no, nothing to do with that.

there is nothing wrong with discussing clients and consequences and scenarios and solutions. It is a great way for peers and mentors and apprentices to learn from one another's mistakes and mishaps and improve upon that. There is no direct name dropping or vilification of a particular individual.

[Wayne]

I have done work for 2 QLD Govt departments, and despite terms of 14 days, both will take 2-3 months to get the invoice paid. Any work I do for personal clients requires 50% upfront and 50% on delivery of files, and any printing costs paid upfront.

[Rattus79]

all government agencies are like that, but they do pay... eventually.

I have a Real Estate that still owes me a couple of hunders for work done nearly 2 years ago. Since they've gone into liquidation since it'll never happen now. What really get's my goat is that my gf worked there right up till closing a few months ago.... go figure that.

[GoldenOrb]

govt agencies here (WA) usually take 3 months... doesnt matter what the invoice says. I know they are regularly getting debt collectors chasing them. they dont care, its not as though they are going anywhere soon

[GoldenOrb]

all government agencies are like that, but they do pay... eventually.

I have a Real Estate that still owes me a couple of hunders for work done nearly 2 years ago. Since they've gone into liquidation since it'll never happen now. What really get's my goat is that my gf worked there right up till closing a few months ago.... go figure that.

Actually one of the things that raised this topic was just that... real estate photos........ But you are right govt depts do pay.... eventually.

[Wayne]

all government agencies are like that, but they do pay... eventually.

But you are right govt depts do pay.... eventually.

Yep, slow but always come good in the end, that's why every time they ask me to do work I keep doing it.

[GoldenOrb]

I sort of figure unless the bride is happy..... your not going to get any satisfaction.. Mod edit: sexist comment removed

oppps sorry....

[JM Tran]

heres another example of an iffy customer......

Client met me and was happy with everything and signed contracts on the spot. Goes home to tell her hubby and he got angry, he only wants to pay $500 bucks deposit to book me for end of November 2011 (peak wedding time) for a package of $5500 all up. Now myself and most photographers require a 50% deposit to secure the booking, so I wrote her an email for her husband -



The reason we take a 50% deposit is for me to secure that date with an absolute guarantee that the client will not cancel or postpone - when they do, and in fact quite a few of them do for various reasons - it means I will lose out on any other interested parties from booking that date previously.

For example 2 years ago I was meant to take a deposit of $1200 from a bride for a wedding in Canberra, she only paid $300 first and promised the rest later. Then later on she decided to change the wedding date, to a date I was already booked out for - so in the end I could not shoot her new wedding date - and lost all other potential wedding clients that was interested in the original wedding date that was canceled.

I can understand your partner's concern of handing over such a large deposit - but it is standard practice for myself and 95% of legitimate and professional photographers in Australia and around the world. As I have stated earlier, November 2011 is a very popular wedding month for me and you have the last booking date for it. However, if you were not to book me I would easily have filled it up with another client over the next few months.

Therefore, if your partner were to put himself into my shoes - and see how lucrative and busy the wedding profession is, he would understand why popular photographers require a 50% deposit - because they are popular and need the monetary assurance from the client that they will commit to hiring the photographer, and follow through with it. It is not a risk or a gamble, it is simply an insurance agreement from both parties - the client insures that the photographer will be there, and the photographer insures that the client will commit.

In other words - if for example, you deposited $500 to me to secure the date. A few months later another client is interested in the same date and is willing to offer the full deposit amount of $2900 ($5800) - I would and can easily return your $500 deposit and state that I am unvailable for that date and book the other client in - simply because there is no monetary incentives for me nor assurance to stay with the risky original booking.

I hope that explains a lot of things!



Here is her response



hi jackie

well my partner has told me to cancel with you only because he doesnt agree with the terms.

Thank you for your time!



hahahahaha, no comments from me

[Wayne]

heres another example of an iffy customer......

Client met me and was happy with everything and signed contracts on the spot. Goes home to tell her hubby and he got angry, he only wants to pay $500 bucks deposit to book me for end of November 2011 (peak wedding time) for a package of $5500 all up. Now myself and most photographers require a 50% deposit to secure the booking, so I wrote her an email for her husband -

In other words - if for example, you deposited $500 to me to secure the date. A few months later another client is interested in the same date and is willing to offer the full deposit amount of $2900 ($5800) - I would and can easily return your $500 deposit and state that I am unvailable for that date and book the other client in - simply because there is no monetary incentives for me nor assurance to stay with the risky original booking.

I hope that explains a lot of things![/B]



Here is her response



hi jackie

well my partner has told me to cancel with you only because he doesnt agree with the terms.

Thank you for your time!



hahahahaha, no comments from me

Gee, I have to say your last statement would sound pretty ordinary to me. That basically says he who pays most upfront wins, even AFTER you have agreed to do the job. If you agreed to take that $500 deposit (which you haven't in this case) that should be set in concrete that you will do the job despite a more lucrative offer from another client for the same date. What is to say that even after you get the $2750 from this client, you don't get offered a bigger more lucrative job and cancel on them anyway....

I don't doubt your ethics for a minute, but that last paragraph couldn't look good to a client.