question regarding 'public'

[matilda]

I'm getting quite a few requests for family portraits, which is fine by me I'm loving it.

Most requests I have had have been out on their farms (well that happens when you live in the country), which has been great cause I get to use all the farm stuff!

However I have thought of some other locations, which will be fantastic. One of which is a school. It is a public school.

So my question is regarding 'public' locations. Do you have to get a release (From council etc) to shoot in public locations. For example, would I need to get permission from the public school to shoot there (i would only shoot out of school hours)?

I thought I would ask on here 1st, that way if I need to approach said person/society, i have my facts straight.

tia.

[Kym]

Yes (in the case of a school), otherwise you are trespassing.

Public land in general you don't need anything

[matilda]

ok that's what I thought.

All the other locations are public land, so better contact the school then to get permission.

[Redgum]

What do you mean by public land? Like beaches. You can't shoot commercially (for money) at a beach without a permit from Council. Many public parks are the same and the same goes for National Parks (discussed recently).
Once you start doing anything for money you can almost count on needing a permit. A recent example was a beach at Redcliffe that I used for a television commercial shoot - permit was $6000 for half a day which included two council officers to patrol the exclusion area. A wedding will generally cost about $1500. It's easier to shoot on private property for a carton of stubbies.
Oh! and these days in the city a school will ask you for a fee as well.

[kiwi]

I don't think so re weddings actually, I don't believe these or say other private commissions such as family portraits are considered commercial by council...in my local council you can even book particular beach locations at no fee

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/discover.aspx?id=5969

[Redgum]

There are no fees for "non-exclusive" use. If you organise a wedding you can't stop the general public from passing through or in fact joining the celebration. You pay for exclusive use.
In any case you will pay a deposit of $500 (Moreton) refundable if the grounds are left in the same condition as arrival. If cleaners are brought in you lose your deposit.

[kiwi]

Can you show me where the $1500 fee for weddings is documented ? I can't find it. I do understand that if you want to shoot an ad etc and want excessive use etc

Hardly the case for the average wedding shoot where its not $1500 but is actually nothing

[Redgum]

Kiwi, it's simple. Phone Moreton Regional Council tomorrow. I've used Suttons Beach several times under the Redcliffe City Council. In fact I've shot three commercials down there in the last five years.
By the way, it's EXCLUSIVE use, not excessive use. Quite a difference as shown in the document you linked.

[kiwi]

I realise that, you talked about weddings and I bet not one photographer spends one dollar for a beach wedding shoot....but sure, I'll ring the council and ask

I do know for example that say Roma st parklands is free

[Redgum]

I realise that, you talked about weddings and I bet not one photographer spends one dollar for a beach wedding shoot....but sure, I'll ring the council and ask

I bet they haven't either - any fee for using the beach would be up to the wedding party. That's what it says in your booklet. Can you imagine a photographer being paid to do a wedding shoot and then having to pay for the licence?
This whole thread is about getting permission to use public places, schools and parks etc. As you have shown from your own experience you do need to get permission. Who pays any fee is not really relevant.

[kiwi]

But you specifically said to the op that a wedding shoot at a beach would cost $1500 for a permit....and I say it's zero....even if you need a permit at all...just to clarify

[Redgum]

Kiwi, this is off-topic but read the book again. You always need to apply for a permit. Whether you have to pay is subject to your specific application. The wedding at Suttons Beach closed the northern end for four hours and engaged three council staff to supervise security in that "exclusive" area and the fee was $1500. Its all in the booklet. Can we get back on topic, please?

[kiwi]

I thought it was exactly on topic, can the op shoot on public land without a permit....the answer as far as i inderstand re parks and beaches is yes, even if it's paid. Permits for exclusive use and paying 1500 is more off topic based on the original question, I'm not doubting based on your circumstances that this was true for this, but really, hardly applicable for average family portraits or weddings in general.

I'll leave it there

[kiwi]

I thought it was exactly on topic, can the op shoot on public land without a permit....the answer as far as i inderstand re parks and beaches is yes, even if it's paid. Permits for exclusive use and paying 1500 is more off topic based on the original question, I'm not doubting based on your circumstances that this was true for this, but really, hardly applicable for average family portraits or weddings in general.

I'll leave it there

[Redgum]

Darren, you're going around in circles again. this was the original question...

So my question is regarding 'public' locations. Do you have to get a release (From council etc) to shoot in public locations. For example, would I need to get permission from the public school to shoot there (i would only shoot out of school hours)?

The simple answer to this question is YES. Taking photos commercially, and that was the OP's question, in the vast majority of cases, including the booklet you produced, requires them getting permission from the Council. To advise otherwise is just stupid and they could end up in all kinds of strife. By the way, shooting for any sort of fee is "commercial" as far as the authorities are concerned. Gosh, I've been doing it for thirty years and I'm not about to engage in any unnecessary work if it can be avoided.

[Longshots]

But you specifically said to the op that a wedding shoot at a beach would cost $1500 for a permit....and I say it's zero....even if you need a permit at all...just to clarify

Kiwi - you really do need more hands on experience of doing this before you make claims that are simply so wrong, and misleading. How do you know its "zero" ? Yes, please go and do some more reading.

Yes this is exactly on topic, because its all about where can someone shoot on public land. The issue of what public is, changes in every state, every town, every park and almost, every road. The correct advice is that there is no standard rule, and there is always a misconception of what is public.

I wont comment on the actual costs of this particular permit discussed with Redgum, but I can assure you that many councils see weddings as a commercial event ( because they are - to the photographer ), and most councils do require you to apply for a permit.

Sure you can try and get away with it, just like plenty of people copy software, but that doesnt make it legal. I've certainly seen plenty of people ejected from a classic Wedding photography venue, New Farm Park. And you might be interested to know, that shooting a great fave location of Brisbane Powerhouse, by every single budding photographer, does require permission from Brisbane Powerhouse.

The best advice is simply go and ask the people who can give you the correct advice (the council or authority that manages the location or building), as opposed to simply relying on comments from people that you have no idea whether they're 30 year veteran of hands on experience, or that they've just gone out and bought all the best gear in the world.

[Longshots]

I thought it was exactly on topic, can the op shoot on public land without a permit....the answer as far as i inderstand re parks and beaches is yes, even if it's paid. Permits for exclusive use and paying 1500 is more off topic based on the original question, I'm not doubting based on your circumstances that this was true for this, but really, hardly applicable for average family portraits or weddings in general.

I'll leave it there

No please dont leave it there. Because its misleading and again, wrong.

Again to remind you of what you're talking about - can the op shoot on public land without a permit (and you refer to the Moreton Bay booklet), well reading that it says this important part:

Weddings & photo sessions on parks and foreshores
A site booking is available for functions of short duration (up to 2 hours) such as wedding ceremonies and photo sessions.

So. yes you can go and drive down the road at high speed, and ignore the rules. Just like you can shoot on a beach (in this example, in Moreton Bay Area) But if you want to give the correct advice, you simply need to READ what you refer to.

And I read that as pretty clear. It reads that you need to apply for a permit. Thats the correct advice, and its from the authority that is responsible for the area.

My point is if you're going to give advice, give the proper advice, not an opinion.

And FWIW its my opinion, that it should be free and without the need for a permit. But thats not the reality.

[kiwi]

Sorry, where does it say you need a permit if you are not wanting to book a site or get exclusive use ?

And to educate me why is a wedding shoot commercial when the pictures are not going to be used to promote a product or service and are for private use only ?

I'm happy to be shown where I'm going wrong, really.

[Longshots]

Mate I'm trying to educate you, but you're not reading what I quoted and therefore not listening.

Really its very frustrating discussing something with you. READ THE BOOKLET, and more importantly read the quoted area. Gee how simplified do I have to make it for you ?

It says this about photography

Weddings & photo sessions on parks and foreshores
A site booking is available for functions of short duration (up to 2 hours) such as wedding ceremonies and photo sessions.

It doesnt say if you want exclusive use, it just says if you want to photograph. End of story.



And please go and do some reading about commercial, because you're confusing something entirely different with your analysis of what commercial is. What you're talking about is commercial usage of an image, as opposed to undertaking a commercial activity. Two very different things mate.

And if you are being paid to shoot something, no matter what it is, I can assure you that councils, authorities, insurers, solicitors, will all consider that you're undertaking a commercial activity.

And I dont think you are happy to be shown where you're wrong, because when you are shown, you simply ignore what facts/documents/references are in front of you.

[James T]

Not really arguing either 'side' but using that booklet as the example:

Regarding photo sessions it reads; ...a site booking is available...

Now all the other sections have phrases like requires permits and Permit must be obtained

So that would imply that you don't in fact need a permit to shoot a wedding on their beaches.