Exclusive rights - in public place events (cycling, running etc.) - limitations or restrictions

[farmer_rob]

I suspect it never makes it to the public record Scotty - and so it is an impossible argument to have. I also suspect that those on the receiving end take a photo from within the "controlled" area, and so are under the obligation of their entry conditions and then receive a legal nastygram which scares them into submission.

[Longshots]

I would like you to point me to even 1 case where the F1 has done this (that didn't involve theft of intellectual property eg. improper use of logo in a commercial sense)

I cant - I'm not a lawyer Scotty. Most of these organisations restrict and control those who are "accredited". And if you're not "accredited" then you have no rights to sell them - thats sort of how it appears to work.

All you need to do is to read the T&C of entry to these type of events, and if you dont buy a ticket, then you're in the grey area of the public place and then it comes down to their "legal muscle". Then as I've said you are in their sights and perhaps its sheer bluff, but I can assure you that they do take action. I'm quite sure that very little ever reaches a court situation, but to gain the type of control they have, then you should be aware that they do follow it up.

But OK lets use V8 Supercars instead as an example - which many of their races are in the public domain - on the Homebush tickets is states:
"Images and sound recordings of an event must not be used for any purpose other than for private and domestic purposes; that is, you cannot sell, license, broadcast, publish or commercially exploit them, including in any case by Internet."

And that is just a summary of the overall terms and conditions - which are far more in depth than that.

Here is a link to a motor sports photographer who clearly aknowledges the restrictions V8 put on his photography and subsequent sales of images:

http://www.chrisnoyes.com.au/

Again, I'm simply passing on what I know about restrictions placed by event organisers. I dont necessarily agree with them but do know of people "chased" by various event organisors.

[kiwi]

Yip, if you have to get in then you abide by ticket or media conditions.

The more interesting/grey area is where you are on public land (eg maybe on an apartment overlooking the circuit) and take photos and then sell them or in particular use them commercially

With the logo's they are all trademarked, but I think as mentioned before unless they are prominent in the image its not a breach of trademark to have them in a commercial image, but there will be no definitive answer as its case (or case by case) law - but i dare say iif you say took a pic of a v8 supercar, airbrushed all the logos, but then used it to sell toothpaste, they will come after you.

Ive also heard, to support William, that FIA are particularly aggressive with trademark protection

Civil Lawyers make good money eh.

[farmer_rob]

...
But OK lets use V8 Supercars instead as an example - which many of their races are in the public domain - on the Homebush tickets is states:
"Images and sound recordings of an event must not be used for any purpose other than for private and domestic purposes; that is, you cannot sell, license, broadcast, publish or commercially exploit them, including in any case by Internet."...

I think we're at cross purposes here - V8's at homebush may well be taking place on public land, but since there is controlled entry and tickets, there is clearly an agreement to lease (or similar) the "public area" and it is hence no longer public within the controlled area from the perspective of a photographer. As soon as you take that ticket (or the credentials), you've lost the opportunity to work outside their rules, and the legal nastygram has some weight.

However, I'm arguing about the situation where you are NOT on land with entry restricted and controlled by the organiser and do not have credentials or an entry ticket - so do not have an agreement with them. You may well argue that it is close to impossible to get a decent, saleable F1 or V8 picture in those circumstances - why do you think they have the screens and barriers? - but in the case of the OP's scenario, or the Manly swim raised by Darey, the photos will not be taken by people inside areas controlled by the organisers, and there is no breach of contract.

[Scotty72]

I thought this whole thread was about public land... ie the Cole Classic is in a public ocean and on a public beach.

[farmer_rob]

...
Civil Lawyers make good money eh.

"I've just bought a library of law books - and am planning to start a career in law. I thought I'd specialise in civil law. How much do you think I should charge?"

[farmer_rob]

I thought this whole thread was about public land... ie the Cole Classic is in a public ocean and on a public beach.

How public is the public land though? The government can legally lease the beach out to the organisers for the day, and the organisers can then restrict entry and impose conditions. (Morally wrong IMO, but then I'm not in government.) So, you can't stand on the (formerly) public land and taken the photo. But you can stand on land that is not controlled by the government/organiser, which was Darey's scenario above.

(BTW, I reread page one of this discussion - the RN link and Ponting case are clearly discussed by Maccaronski. The perils of old threads being resurrected )

[Longshots]

OK I took the V8 and F1 on the basis of their street circuits. Hence the public land and public accessibility.

So not really at cross purposes. You're absolutely right that y buying a ticket you agree to the T&C, but the grey area is well how do the organisers stop you shooting their event when you're on public land - which takes me back to my answer (which they could be wrong - but they have more dough) that they specifically state that the logos are "protected".

And Coles Classic ? Seriously I'm not trying to wind anyone up here, but the Manly beach probably has restrictions on it already for photography, and is managed by Manly Council, which while "public", has terms and conditions of entry. Annoying to many photographers - Arts Freedom Australia recently highlighted the restrictions by many councils to photographers shooting on beaches.



And again - I'm relaying information -For everyone's info, I resent these type of restrictions to photography.