Question for the professionals

[Gremlin]

Liss, youve probably already covered this but, just incase, if your building a studio and plan to work from there, ensure youve got council approval, and public liabilty insurance, you dont want one anonymous phone call to the council to ruin everything. Just a thought. Just something else to factor into your costs.

[Gypsy]

Thanks Gremlin. Yes absoloutly have thought about all of that. It's still a little while off yet (12 months +) so we will worry about that side of it as it gets closer to the time. Have to move first... and then look for the 'right' house. Plans might change n the meantime too depending on the house, yard and of course the council approval. But that is where we are aiming at this stage

[minnum]

Liss that sounds AWESOME, I think it would be so great to have a studio like that. We live in an apartment now so home-studio is completely out of the question for us. I think it is a good plan too with emailing prices so they are not online.

[kbp]

I do option 3 as posted as above but my digi packs also include some prints. I do like clients to see good quality prints so they see the difference after they take their disc to kmart :/

[NicolePearce]

I like to offer Prints and a disc but specify where to print, I've got examples of prints from a few print places like Big W Domayne etc so show them that there is a difference. There is a place in NSW that do take orders from public not just professionals and they use good equipment and suggest my clients use them http://www.photoking.com/index.html they post images to you. Personally I use Nulab in Victoria, they are great and I find the process easy to use with uploading files etc the reason I use Nulab and not photoking is that I used Nulab first and have no need to swap.

[Bear Dale]

The days of the ubiquitous wedding photo on the mantle piece could be coming to and end for a lot of people.

These people may have no use what so ever for an actual print. They maybe have much more use for digital images for their iPhone, digital frames, Face-book, email and the plethora of ways to use a digital image.

[Gypsy]

Personally I use Nulab in Victoria, they are great and I find the process easy to use with uploading files etc the reason I use Nulab and not photoking is that I used Nulab first and have no need to swap.

I use Nulab too, I was impressed with the prints from my wedding so I asked my wedding photographer who he uses. There were 2 that he used, Nulab was one. Tried them first and was happy with how it worked and the quality so I've stuck with them.

[Longshots]

No Longshots I'm disagreeing with the first quote - of course I don't know your clients - when you say peers I assumed you meant photographers, perhaps you could have better defined that as commercial photographers. Hope that provides some clarification for you

My point was and still is that in the overall marketplace, the need for prints has become less and less. That is an indisputable fact. That situation does effect all photographers. I did not mean to imply that comment was relating just one area of photography. Apologies for any confusion here.

In my personal view the issue of many photographers charging a small/modest fee on the basis that they can cover their costs with high print charges is now no longer viable. That was the opinion I was offering to the OP's original question.

So while you're welcome to disagree with my opinion, I'll restate my response, to the question which specifically states "Question for the Professionals":

The big trouble Jim is that many portrait photographers price themselves on an (IMHO) antiquated business model that relies on print prices for them to make a living - ie the price to actually shoot the portrait session is so ridiculously low in some cases, that to actually make a living, at some point the business photographer will need to charge a great deal more than the actual cost of obtaining a print. To charge next to nothing for a portrait session may seem like financial suicide. And it is unless you find someplace to put your costs on. Placing them on the prints, is no longer winning favour in my view. The smart portrait photographers should look more and more at the alternative options for charging in my opinion.

[pvoices1971]

My point was and still is that in the overall marketplace, the need for prints has become less and less. That is an indisputable fact. That situation does effect all photographers. I did not mean to imply that comment was relating just one area of photography. Apologies for any confusion here.

In my personal view the issue of many photographers charging a small/modest fee on the basis that they can cover their costs with high print charges is now no longer viable. That was the opinion I was offering to the OP's original question.

So while you're welcome to disagree with my opinion, I'll restate my response, to the question which specifically states "Question for the Professionals":

You make some good points William, afterall you are the professional in this equation. Sure the need for prints is less but we don't base our business model on clients needing our service we base it on clients wanting our services and that is a big difference.

[Dan Cripps]

Regardless of the feeling many precious professional photographers have, your ability to keep digital files, and/or charge extortionate prices for them along with prints is dying. The market commands better value. Ignore that at your peril.

I guess the fact that my print sale average (per shoot) is steadily increasing must be an anomaly in the industry.

If it's growing, it can't be dying. Right?

[Redgum]

My point was and still is that in the overall marketplace, the need for prints has become less and less. That is an indisputable fact. That situation does effect all photographers. I did not mean to imply that comment was relating just one area of photography. Apologies for any confusion here.

In my personal view the issue of many photographers charging a small/modest fee on the basis that they can cover their costs with high print charges is now no longer viable. That was the opinion I was offering to the OP's original question.

So while you're welcome to disagree with my opinion, I'll restate my response, to the question which specifically states "Question for the Professionals":

This is terrible, having to agree with William but of course he is spot on.
I think there is always a lot of confusion over this question because a number people on this forum are part time professionals (their main income stream is from other sources). A recent poll by Kiwi revealed only six members here as working the trade full time.
Most here represent the wedding/portrait/family photographer which in real terms is less than 1% of the profession so when you ask the question about prints the answer will be slanted toward printing. In reality, as Longshots said, printing is no longer relevant to mainstream professionals, the other 99% of the trade. It would be helpful if questions were delivered to wedding/portrait photographers (in this case) rather than generalising and using the word "professional". After all most have admitted they don't make a living from photography and in a real sense are not professionals at all (just good photographers).

Like Longshots, I can't remember the last time I did a serious print and would outsource all that work now. The overheads versus the profit is just not there. But then again I'm a mainstream professional working in journalism, newspapers and the corporate/industrial area none of which would know how to handle a print anyway. High quality digital images is all they want and this has been the case for the last five years. Even agencies want nothing other than the digital image so they can control their client and provide international services (distribution).

Out of interest, at a network breakfast the other week a senior representative of a major bank outlined those industries they WOULD NOT finance and right at the top was photography. The overrider was "a contract". If you have a substantial contract for work funding is a different issue. I only say this because bank managers simply reflect the community/business importance of a particular trade and in this case must often see failure in start-up photography businesses.

[Raven]

I don't think the need for prints has become less. I think it's more a case of the need for digital has increased due to social media and all those cool (or kitchy) things you can have your photo put onto.

The majority of my clients want printed photos to put on their walls and they want albums! Beautiful physical images that they can hold and look at without having to flick a switch.

I have many happy clients that appreciate the hard work I put in and also understand that I charge what I do because (like Minna) I pay tax, insurance, provide props, website costs, ongoing education, new equipment, spend hours touching blemishes etc. I spend the time to educate the ones that don't and ask why I charge what I do. They don't always end up booking and may choose the cheaper operator but I'm fine with that because I don't need (or want) to photograph everyone! My work is mainly from word of mouth so I'm obviously making people happy enough to pay what I charge.

I am actually working out a new pricing structure that will probably include digital files. I'm leaning more to making it an all inclusive thing. Forget the sitting fee and then add on a package deal and just charge them an upfront amount for the whole lot included. Maybe

[Dan Cripps]

Out of interest, at a network breakfast the other week a senior representative of a major bank outlined those industries they WOULD NOT finance and right at the top was photography. The overrider was "a contract". If you have a substantial contract for work funding is a different issue. I only say this because bank managers simply reflect the community/business importance of a particular trade and in this case must often see failure in start-up photography businesses.

We must be the anomaly in this area, too, as we have a great relationship with our bank.

[Redgum]

We must be the anomaly in this area, too, as we have a great relationship with our bank.

Of course but we won't tell anyone about that Zeke. I just flew my bank manager to Indonesia so there must be some good relationships out there. Apart from you and I though it appears most photographers are going to have a difficult time looking for bank investment in their business, that's an industry thing which in retrospect probably won't affect anyone here because they would put up there home as collateral. Just a nice thing to know if starting a business is in prospect. Back to the topic?