Selling photoshoot images - Help!!

[Longshots]

Ok all,

firstly, thankyou for taking the time to read and reply to my question. To give a little more info about it:
I've set up a contract that allows the deb association to use the images within their advertising, providing they have model releases from the people in each shot, however they do not have the right to resell the images. So we came up with a price for all of this and that was accepted.
Now, I have received an email back asking me how much the right would be to resell the images. I have asked for more info, but I thought I would post and see if there is a website that someone may know about to get me started in my research.

OK Emma

Many have suggested that you should dive in and give it a go of adding to the forum - so take my word for it, that you'll benefit more by jumping in with a comment now and then.

So lets move on eh ?

OK I still dont have enough information to give you any sensible advice. OK when you say that you've set up a contract, does that mean that they are paying you to be there, or are you shooting the deb association (scuse my ignorance but can you elaborate on what that is exactly ? I can assume, but prefer not to. My assumption is that its a separate company that produce the management for a debs event - if so, I've been in exactly this position in the past).

If I correctly understand the position, and assume that they're paying you, the question from them seems reasonable. So, your choice is:

A) to accept that they're paying you, and it was their intention or reason to get you to shoot so that they could always use it as a commercial tool to increase their profits - and if thats the case, you might be on the end of the attitude that if you dont agree to do it, another photographer will.

or

B) to accept that they're paying you, and that you will stick to your original agreement, and no one else can buy the images (which is a waste, because their would be and is a market for the print sales after/during the shoot)

or

C) to accept that they're paying you, and you offer to put the images up on your own website or have them available immediately on the night. Which might go against their intent and they might end up charging you for the ability to take the shots in the first place.

or

best of all/my choice

D) to accept that they're paying you, allow them to manage, resell, and print production themselves, and you take a percentage (50-50 or 60-40 - thats in their favour, they have the costs) of each recorded print sale. They get the main challenge of handling the print sales, and you add to your profits.

How does that sound ?

[jasevk]

Emma, to answer your query... if I were you I'd tell whoever wants the license to sell your work to stick it... if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?

[Longshots]

if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?

Because that might be the very reason for the organisers are commissioning a photographer.

Like I said, more facts/information are required.

[jasevk]

OK... now having actually read William's post thouroughly (i'm slack - i know)... his option D seems ideal.... Although your revenue may be lower... it's almost ALL margin - can't really lose with that approach can you?

[Jamie Paterson]

Hi Deb,

Seriously, I wouldn't be giving up my rights to anyone. Don't feel pressured into doing so.

[Longshots]

What rights ?

[kiwi]

This is sort of the thing that I do a bit of re sport carnivals....with option D as well, I'll call it Option E, no more than 20% cut back to them and only after a certain $ value of gross sales and this is on the basis that I manage the fulfilment so that I manage the orders and quality - they just do a passthrrough from their website to mine....much easier this way as then you inherit the customer relationship and contact for future opportunities

Really any business model is good if it presents good value to you, them and the parents

[ricktas]

What rights ?

very true, we do not know the details of the contract entered into so far, and for portraiture, the rights (copyright) belong with the person commissioning the shoot, in many circumstances.

[virgal_tracy]

Emma, to answer your query... if I were you I'd tell whoever wants the license to sell your work to stick it... if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?

I tend to disagree with this to a certain extent. Everyone has a happy price for what they offer. If they want the rights then you go back to them with your "happy" price which would probably be slightly higher than you think you could make from print sales.

The organisers then have the option of saying yes or no to that price. Either way you win.

(all of this is based on general assumptions of what the contract looks like)

[kiwi]

good point, with event shooting its always best to get as much up front in the pocket, expecting residual spec sales is a high risk proposition

[emma]

ok, that makes sense. I'm already getting paid for my time to travel, take the photos and process them. I was going to do up packages for the deb and family members to purchase directly from me as it's all set up on my website to do so.

However, they have just replied back that they were asking in case any other family members wanted pictures of the debs. So we now need to organise if they want to pay extra for a license to sell my pics and keep all the profit, or they just direct people to me to purchase directly.

Thanks for your help - now at least I know where I can start!

[Longshots]

Now I know that info, I would wonder why they want the additional work. Why not just keep everything with you if the viewing and ordering process is available on your website ? Maybe the organisers are just being overly organised and you just need to assure them that their question is already covered by your own ordering work flow?