Who earns their livelihood photographing?

[Jimbo]

Regarding industry regulation, it'd be anti-competitive, and would be very unlikely to benefit the consumer. Given the compliance and administrative burden of implementing it, it would only serve to drive prices up, at a net cost to the community as a whole.

Bad, bad, bad in terms of economics, and I can't imagine that any government would attempt to introduce such a scheme (it'd be contrary to the National Competition Agreements, for a start).

But I think we're all in furious agreement, as noted by Kiwi.

[Erin]

At this stage, I'm not interested in the income side of things. The moment photography becomes a chore, I'll give it up. Happy to sell a few shoots along the way though I don't actively seek out business, so not a weekend warrior in that respect.

[Bear Dale]

It would be interesting to know anonymously what the average professional photographer makes per year.

[I @ M]

Thanks for the coffee on the keyboard Jim.

I think your post may have read a little better as

"It would be interesting to know anonymously what the average income per year of professional photographers is."

For surely there is no such thing as an average professional photographer, is there?

[Longshots]

Here's some info:
http://joboutlook.gov.au/Pages/occup...&Tab=prospects

But here is the best ever breakdown and explanation of costs and income for photographers I've ever read - HIGHLY recommend that this is placed by a MOD in resources:
http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/photo/photo_econ.htm

PLEASE go to that link and read it - its amazingly accurate.


Ok the alarming stats that the last survey (government survey) I recall is the average income (thats INCOME) is depressingly low on average - with obvious smaller percentages on the high and low end percentages - and I believe that average income was just $37,000

[Bear Dale]

Thanks for the coffee on the keyboard Jim.

I think your post may have read a little better as

"It would be interesting to know anonymously what the average income per year of professional photographers is."

For surely there is no such thing as an average professional photographer, is there?

L O L

I'll go with your question

[Bear Dale]

William would those figures be for full time professionals or would there be a percentage of part timers in that?

[Longshots]

Apparently FT's only


Which is even more depressing

[Longshots]

Although this is a UK based survey, and from 2005 - just have a look at page 3 of this fairly indepth insight into the "Creative Industries" in the UK

As an ex-pom myself, the figures are very much inline with Australian findings. The UK Pound is very roughly 1 = 2 A$.

Would help if I gave you the link ! :
http://eprints.qut.edu.au/12166/1/be...port_NESTA.pdf

[terry.langham]

I don't directly earn an income from photography, however I am learning that as our website generates more sales, quality photos are essential. Mostly they portray a more 'professional' business compared to sites containing poor quality photography.

Ok the alarming stats that the last survey (government survey) I recall is the average income (thats INCOME) is depressingly low on average - with obvious smaller percentages on the high and low end percentages - and I believe that average income was just $37,000

I dare say that cars, computers and photographic equipment aren't included in the incomes of a lot of self employed photographers, as they would be put through the business as a business expense. That would push their income up by a fair bit and make the figure slightly less depressing.

[Bear Dale]

Doesn't look like it's a "Get Rich Quick" scheme.

[kiwi]

But, but, they charge such exhorbitant fees ?????

[Bear Dale]

But, but, they charge such exhorbitant fees ?????

Yes.......but only the professionals.

[Redgum]

Here's some info:
http://joboutlook.gov.au/Pages/occup...&Tab=prospects

But here is the best ever breakdown and explanation of costs and income for photographers I've ever read - HIGHLY recommend that this is placed by a MOD in resources:
http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/photo/photo_econ.htm

PLEASE go to that link and read it - its amazingly accurate.
Ok the alarming stats that the last survey (government survey) I recall is the average income (thats INCOME) is depressingly low on average - with obvious smaller percentages on the high and low end percentages - and I believe that average income was just $37,000

William, I would seriously challenge your interpretation of all three reports. One report is written by an amateur hoping to get into the industry and is so narrow it really doesn't represent any part of the photographic industry at all. The second report was done in 2001 with some updates in 2005 which essentially is a decade old and almost pre-digital. The third report is in fact quite good and explains high rate of unemployment but at the same time indicates solid industry growth.
The UK salary component averages UK29,000 pounds which is roughly $70,000 pa. and this is based on an employed person. It is well known that self employment includes write-offs, tax breaks and other benefits averages nationally an income almost twice that of an employed person.
Of most interest is the forecast for industry growth which rates for photography a 9 out of 10 across all industries.
There's plenty of scope for work in the photographic industry but what I think these reports point out very clearly is that photographic skills are less relevant than business and people skills. But we knew that anyway.

[geoffsta]

I'm in it because I enjoy it, and I get to meet some great people with simular interests.

[Xenedis]

Change the so-called 'offensive' term? That would be offensive.

More offensive than the supposed offensive term itself is the implication that the offensive term is a lesser form of photography than any other -- one deserving of derision.

Being a 'weekend warrior' is perfectly valid in my book. I've seen images from weekend warriors that are far better than the images produced by some people who refer to themselves as professional photographers.

For me, photography is a hobby, and one about which I'm passionate.

My theory is that turning it into work would kill it. I shoot on my own terms and for my own enjoyment, and having to shoot subject matter or styles that don't appeal to me is, well, unappealing.

I have sold images, and I have done commercial work, but I'm not looking at turning a passionate hobby into a day job. A little bit of money here and there is always nice, but it would take a hell of a lot to come even remotely within cooee of getting back the money I've invested in gear over the years.

At the end of the day, whether you're a weekend warrior, an in-demand professional, or anywhere in between, photography should be whatever it means to you, and on your terms.

That's how it works for me.

[Xenedis]

For surely there is no such thing as an average professional photographer, is there?

Of course, you said that in jest, but sadly there are plenty of people calling themselves professional photographers, whose work is not even of a sufficient quality to be called 'average'.

Let's just hope we never run into any of them!

[Redgum]

But Xenedis, if you marry your passionate hobby with your passionate employment you reach utopia which is only achieved by two or three percent of working human beings. It's a lovely place to be waking up each morning and doing exactly what you want and getting paid good money. It beats working at a job that you don't really like at a place you don't want to be which is most of the workforce. I've been there.

[Redgum]

Of course, you said that in jest, but sadly there are plenty of people calling themselves professional photographers, whose work is not even of a sufficient quality to be called 'average'.

Let's just hope we never run into any of them!

There's no such thing as average, only wealthy or poor. Quality of the photography doesn't even enter the equation.
If I get paid $5k for a picture that someone else thinks is lousy it doesn't matter a squat. The customers happy. That's the reality, third party opinions don't count.

[Xenedis]

But Xenedis, if you marry your passionate hobby with your passionate employment you reach utopia which is only achieved by two or three percent of working human beings. It's a lovely place to be waking up each morning and doing exactly what you want and getting paid good money.

I bet, but given the stats, most of us won't experience that. I'm an eternal realist. :-)