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Thread: Career Advice

  1. #21
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    Hey I dared - did I win ? I'm a full time pro. And the opportunities that were around even ten years ago are no longer the same.

    The general consensus of many in the profession that it's lifespan is seriously challenged.

    So yes sure go and live the dream. For all of the ones that do make it, I can see a vast number who dont. So if we're answering the original question, the state of the market is best described as seriously challenging. Much more so than even just a short time ago. Most of the extremely well known photographers I know of, are fast exchanging their skill as a photographer to one of highly successful speakers/educators. With so few sports photographers positions actually available, I would definitely question it as a good career path. Saying that, there is definitely opportunities to go out and with the right personality, drive and ambition, I would be quite sure that with all of those factors and a good degree of skill and craft, yes they could succeed.
    William

    www.longshots.com.au

    I am the PhotoWatchDog

  2. #22
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    no sense in sugar coating it hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Axford View Post
    ....... Who knows a photographer who has conquered the world?
    I do, Ken Duncan, at least that is what he said the last time I saw him

    Oh and there's his mates Peter Eastway and David Oliver who are both "Masters Of Photography"..... David will be visiting our club on the 19/8.

    I suppose it comes down to your definition of "conquered the world"

    Hey Steve, it's good to see you have joined a camera club, I saw your images come up on the AV at our Interclub two weeks ago.

  4. #24
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    Payscale.com director Al Lee listed 7 high paying jobs you don't need to go to college for.
    No.1 is a Freelance Photographer ($US47,800 median)
    No.4 is a Nuclear Power Reactor Operator ala Homer Simpson ($US79,100 median)
    and No.7 Airport Air Traffic Controller ($US60,200 median)
    http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-arti...llege_for-1374
    "The greatest camera in the world is the one you hold in your hands when shit happens." ©2007 Raoul Isidro

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Axford View Post
    My point was, if it's really his dream then go for it. If it's not then there are much better choices to earn money. The analogy with actors is just to point out that most will struggle, but some make heaps. With photographers, most will struggle, and none make heaps. Who knows a photographer who has conquered the world?

    you know how much Anie Leibovitz makes before she went into a 24 mil debt? Gary Fong is quite rich from photography too but more so from his marketing side than actual photos.

    theres quite a lot of pro photographers making more than our prime minister makes per year.

    had you been or are a working photographer than you wouldnt be saying none makes heaps......because there are a lot with 6 figure revenues and some at 7 etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    Quite right, I've admired craigs work for some time......
    And he is a top guy as well, very humble and unassuming at the Olympics and also when he did a presentation at our club last year.


    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    ...... only 4 ft sport photographers in Australia.....
    I know Craig is fairly short but he is definately taller than 4 ft

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasyphoto View Post
    I do, Ken Duncan, at least that is what he said the last time I saw him

    Oh and there's his mates Peter Eastway and David Oliver who are both "Masters Of Photography"..... David will be visiting our club on the 19/8.

    I suppose it comes down to your definition of "conquered the world"

    Hey Steve, it's good to see you have joined a camera club, I saw your images come up on the AV at our Interclub two weeks ago.
    Did you like them? I'm a bit too far away to be active in a camera club - a 10hr round trip makes it a bit hard, but the comps provide some interest.

    Anyway, back to the subject. I think KD is more of a businessman than a photographer. His photos are very formula driven, which really demonstrates the point (made elsewhere) that first you need to be a businessman, and a long way second you need to be a photographer. Perhaps you don't even need to be one, though it does help in Ken's case. I wouldn't suggest that there a no pro photographers who are successful, coz of course there are. It's just that they don't rate highly in the Who's Who anymore.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdazzler View Post
    I think it was good honest advice Dazza ... but I also think that if anyone can make it happen, a 17-18yo can. Hes got plenty of time to become the best he can possibly be if he takes the right path and sticks solid. I wish Id made a solid decision when I was that age.
    totally agree with this. when I was doing the diploma in photoimaging the majority of the class was late teens/early twenties - very hungry for photographic work. not to mention it was a full class and only a handfull dropped out.
    Successful People Make Adjustments - Evander Holyfield

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM Tran View Post
    you know how much Anie Leibovitz makes before she went into a 24 mil debt? Gary Fong is quite rich from photography too but more so from his marketing side than actual photos.

    theres quite a lot of pro photographers making more than our prime minister makes per year.

    had you been or are a working photographer than you wouldnt be saying none makes heaps......because there are a lot with 6 figure revenues and some at 7 etc
    Quite a lot? A few make more than the PM, especially when you consider that the PM job comes with a pension. 6 or 7 figure earnings for the very best in any profession isn't all that great, especially for the self employed. Heaps means - say 100 million per year. I am surprised that you seem to be arguing that photographers are well paid.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Axford View Post
    Quite a lot? A few make more than the PM, especially when you consider that the PM job comes with a pension. 6 or 7 figure earnings for the very best in any profession isn't all that great, especially for the self employed. Heaps means - say 100 million per year. I am surprised that you seem to be arguing that photographers are well paid.
    I dont need to argue mate, Im speaking from self experience and from my colleagues, and the fact that decent photographers in Aus who work full time earn more than the median income here, and they generally work less than the 38 hours a week norm. My cousin shoots weddings once a week in Melbourne, he made just under 70k after tax last year.......poor him for only doing that once a week......

    http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-arti...llege_for-1374

    My point was, if it's really his dream then go for it. If it's not then there are much better choices to earn money.
    I would encourage job satisfaction over making xxx amount of money. How many here actually can put their hands up and say I wake up everyday looking forward to work, and have never uttered the phrase 'thank god its Friday'!

    ....... Who knows a photographer who has conquered the world?
    Quite a few, how about you? Oh hey that rhymes! But given enough time, they could all earn more than a dime!

    I dont know, you seem to be coming up with a lot of generalization and assumptions about what being a photographer is all about. All I can say is, thank god that boy is not your child.

    The ironic thing is Steve, I am a bit part actor/extra too, having had a tiny tiny role in the last Scott Hicks production movie The Boys are Back, with a role next to Clive Owen in Adelaide. Hence your analogy was a bit off in my opinion.

    Remember the Soup Nazi from Seinfield? Heres my take on it

    'NO DREAMS FOR YOU!'

  11. #31
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    Ah well, I think we disagree. I guess I've come from a world that rates things differently, so I should just back off and leave it to you.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Axford View Post
    Ah well, I think we disagree. I guess I've come from a world that rates things differently, so I should just back off and leave it to you.
    Dont worry Im not picking a fight or trying to counter everything you said Steve, just offering my perspective and thoughts and discussion, all good

  13. #33
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    It's quite irrelevant what the top 10% or bottom 10% earn, it's the median that would be interesting

    I'm sure ABS would hold that data, I might look later

    I do know that there are no photographers in the BRW top 500. None that I could identify anyway
    Darren
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    Constructive Critique of my images always appreciated

  14. #34
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    Table from the USA, photography is a minor under "art"

    Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary Starting Median Pay Mid-Career Median Pay
    Petroleum Engineering $93,000 $157,000
    Aerospace Engineering $59,400 $108,000
    Chemical Engineering $64,800 $108,000
    Electrical Engineering $60,800 $104,000
    Nuclear Engineering $63,900 $104,000
    Applied Mathematics $56,400 $101,000
    Biomedical Engineering $54,800 $101,000
    Physics $50,700 $99,600
    Computer Engineering $61,200 $99,500
    Economics $48,800 $97,800
    Computer Science $56,200 $97,700
    Industrial Engineering $58,200 $97,600
    Mechanical Engineering $58,300 $97,400
    Building Construction $52,900 $94,500
    Materials Science & Engineering $59,400 $93,600
    Civil Engineering $53,500 $93,400
    Statistics $50,000 $92,900
    Finance $47,500 $91,500
    Software Engineering $56,700 $91,300
    Management Information Systems $50,900 $90,300
    Mathematics $46,400 $88,300
    Government $41,500 $87,300
    Information Systems $49,300 $87,100
    Construction Management $50,400 $87,000
    Environmental Engineering $51,000 $85,500
    Electrical Engineering Technology $55,500 $85,300
    Supply Chain Management $49,400 $84,500
    Mechanical Engineering Technology $53,300 $84,300
    Chemistry $42,400 $83,700
    Computer Information Systems $48,300 $83,100
    International Relations $42,400 $83,000
    Molecular Biology $40,200 $82,900
    Urban Planning $41,600 $82,800
    Industrial Design $42,100 $82,300
    Geology $44,600 $82,200
    Biochemistry $39,800 $82,000
    Political Science $40,100 $81,700
    Industrial Technology $49,400 $81,500
    Food Science $48,500 $81,100
    Information Technology $49,600 $79,300
    Architecture $41,900 $78,400
    Telecommunications $40,000 $78,300
    Film Production $36,100 $77,800
    Accounting $44,600 $77,500
    Marketing $38,600 $77,300
    Occupational Health and Safety $52,300 $77,000
    Civil Engineering Technology $48,100 $75,600
    International Business $42,600 $73,700
    Advertising $37,800 $73,200
    History $38,500 $73,000
    Philosophy $39,100 $72,900
    Biology $38,400 $72,800
    Microbiology $40,600 $72,600
    American Studies $40,900 $72,500
    Fashion Design $37,700 $72,200
    Communications $38,200 $72,200
    Environmental Science $41,600 $71,600
    Global & International Studies $38,400 $71,400
    Geography $39,600 $71,200
    Business $41,100 $70,600
    Public Administration $39,000 $70,600
    Landscape Architecture $43,200 $70,300
    Biotechnology $47,500 $70,100
    Zoology $34,600 $68,800
    Drama $40,700 $68,300
    Nursing $52,700 $68,200
    Health Sciences $38,300 $68,100
    Radio & Television $39,200 $67,800
    Hotel Management $37,900 $67,600
    English $37,800 $67,500
    Forestry $37,000 $67,200
    Journalism $35,800 $66,600
    Hospitality & Tourism $36,200 $65,800
    Literature $37,500 $65,700
    Public Health $37,800 $65,700
    Liberal Arts $35,700 $63,900
    Public Relations $35,700 $63,400
    Anthropology $36,200 $62,900
    Psychology $35,300 $62,500
    Animal Science $34,600 $62,100
    Sociology $36,600 $62,100
    Human Resources $38,100 $61,900
    Kinesiology $34,400 $61,600
    French $39,600 $61,400
    Multimedia & Web Design $40,100 $61,200
    Photography $35,100 $61,200
    Health Care Administration $37,700 $60,800
    Organizational Management $41,500 $60,500
    Fine Arts $35,400 $60,300
    Humanities $38,600 $60,100
    Sports Management $37,300 $59,800
    Agriculture $42,300 $59,700
    Theater $35,300 $59,600
    Fashion Merchandising $35,000 $59,300
    Medical Technology $43,800 $59,300
    Exercise Science $32,800 $59,000
    Spanish $37,100 $58,200
    Criminal Justice $35,600 $58,000
    Visual Communication $36,800 $57,700
    Social Science $38,100 $57,200
    Art History $39,400 $57,100
    Music $36,700 $57,000
    Graphic Design $35,400 $56,800
    Nutrition $42,200 $56,700
    Interior Design $34,400 $56,600
    Interdisciplinary Studies $35,600 $55,700
    Education $35,100 $54,900
    Art $33,500 $54,800
    Religious Studies $34,700 $54,400
    Dietetics $40,400 $54,200
    Special Education $36,000 $53,800
    Recreation & Leisure Studies $33,300 $53,200
    Theology $34,700 $51,300
    Paralegal Studies/Law $35,100 $51,300
    Horticulture $35,000 $50,800
    Culinary Arts $35,900 $50,600
    Athletic Training $32,800 $45,700
    Social Work $31,800 $44,900
    Elementary Education $31,600 $44,400
    Child and Family Studies $29,500 $38,400
    Methodology
    This chart is based upon PayScale Salary Survey data for full-time employees in the United States who possess a Bachelor's degree and no higher degrees and have majored in the subjects listed above. These results may not represent all graduates with these degrees. All colleges and universities across the nation were included. As a result, median salary figures may be skewed toward large state universities, since these schools have the largest attendance. Salary is the sum of compensation from base salary, bonuses, profit sharing, commissions, and overtime, if applicable. Salary does not include equity (stock) compensation. See full methodology for more.

  15. #35
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    I think you gave the father valid advice.

    If the student is really talented and passionate, then you won't be able to stop them pursuing a photography career and at least they will be forewarned about how tough things can be.

    If the student is just daydreaming about possible careers and this kinda sounds great, then you have saved them some time and angst.

    all and any feedback welcome
    http://www.natsky.com.au

  16. #36
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    There have been several surveys recently on the state of the professional photography market - all of them with fairly depressing results. One major survey in the UK presented the result that 1 in 5, were no longer able to rely on photography as their full time income (where they had been full time previously)

    Closer to home, this story and link produces more relevant state of play:

    http://www.smartcompany.com.au/retai...y-picture.html


    And here is the source from IBIS:

    http://www.ibisworld.com.au/industry...aspx?indid=674


    Personally I constantly see and witness a huge downturn in the market.
    Last edited by Longshots; 09-08-2010 at 4:59pm.

  17. #37
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    Average profit seems a bit grim

  18. #38
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    Oh and a NSW Gov survey from just a few years ago (in "better" times), reported the average earnings of a full time photographer was less than a clerical assistant at just (annual) $32,000

  19. #39
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    I am not wanting to suggest anything untoward about any photographer however my plumber only "earns" about 70k per annum, but geez he lives in a nice house and has a nice car...

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by maccaroneski View Post
    I am not wanting to suggest anything untoward about any photographer however my plumber only "earns" about 70k per annum, but geez he lives in a nice house and has a nice car...

    which is pretty good - = over twice the average income of the average photographer - so your point was ?

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