Professionalism.

[farmer_rob]

I really don't see what the problem is here. Photography is hardly a life & death matter - so there are a few shonky operators out there. There are a few shonky doctors and lawyers around in spite of the "professionalism" of their areas of work, it is just that society deems it better to police these professions because of the damage they can cause.

I'll only get excited about the "professionalism" of photographers when AIPP pushes its standards and starts to name and shame those who fail to live up to it's ethical standards. In the meantime, the arguable industry bodies in photography serve their own interests and are hardly known outside photography circles.

[Paul G]

Have you had a bad experience, or experiences, recently Tony B? I find your post to be very general and in fact quite disparaging.

I guess I'm screwed on both counts because my screen name is 'goodall photography' (maybe I should just change it to PaulG) as in my spare time I like to take pictures, and while still a hobby for me as I don't get the time to devote to it, I classify myself as a keen amateur who is working toward improving my craft and I will take paid work where I can but I will not take jobs that I know are beyond my scope at this point in time. You can be professional by your actions if you are not indeed professional by way of 3 to 4 years of higher learning (of which I have also done in other fields).

Oh yeah, the second part where I'm screwed (Andrew ) is that I'm also currently working as a gardener. I won't call myself a professional horticulturist as I did not finish my two years of study at TAFE for that one to be enshrined on a paper degree.

[dche5390]

I'm amazed at how photographers in particular, continue to whinge on this subject.

[bigdazzler]

Have you had a bad experience, or experiences, recently Tony B? I find your post to be very general and in fact quite disparaging.

I guess I'm screwed on both counts because my screen name is 'goodall photography' (maybe I should just change it to PaulG) as in my spare time I like to take pictures, and while still a hobby for me as I don't get the time to devote to it, I classify myself as a keen amateur who is working toward improving my craft and I will take paid work where I can but I will not take jobs that I know are beyond my scope at this point in time. You can be professional by your actions if you are not indeed professional by way of 3 to 4 years of higher learning (of which I have also done in other fields).

I think the OP is a rant for rants sake to be honest. Thats life. Deal, and move on ... Were all very aware of the state of play in this industry. Its been flogged to death.

The rest of your post is BANG ON mate. I have exactly the same outlook, and im making a few bucks to cover the cost of my toys. Im happy with that

The bit about "acting professionally" in incredibly important to me also with the people that choose to pay me for my work. (I guess that why most of my photography pocket money comes from word of mouth and referrals :) Its a matter of principle for me to act professionally even if im not one by definition of training, Paying GST, bla bla ...

[kiwi]

Have you had a bad experience, or experiences, recently Tony B? I find your post to be very general and in fact quite disparaging.

I guess I'm screwed on both counts because my screen name is 'goodall photography' (maybe I should just change it to PaulG) as in my spare time I like to take pictures, and while still a hobby for me as I don't get the time to devote to it, I classify myself as a keen amateur who is working toward improving my craft and I will take paid work where I can but I will not take jobs that I know are beyond my scope at this point in time. You can be professional by your actions if you are not indeed professional by way of 3 to 4 years of higher learning (of which I have also done in other fields).

Oh yeah, the second part where I'm screwed (Andrew ) is that I'm also currently working as a gardener. I won't call myself a professional horticulturist as I did not finish my two years of study at TAFE for that one to be enshrined on a paper degree.

slightly off topic, but if you are promoting/trading as goodall photography then you need to be law register yourself as a company with qld gov.

[Paul G]

It's just a username Darren and I don't represent myself to be anything more than a keen amateur. But I do declare in my tax return and pay gst/tax for any money I make from my hobby.

[kiwi]

That's cool, something I didnt know about and then do for ages when I set up my website etc

[ricktas]

Most true professionals rarely refer to themselves as such. but some newbies seek out information on how to be a professional photographer. Maybe when they do, we are answering incorrectly? I reckon if someone asks a question about becoming a pro, the first response should be "what is a professional photographer, what is it that you are aiming to be"? My guess is most of the time the response will be related to making money from taking photos, and nothing at all about producing high quality photos.

I think the word professional is being bastardised to an extent, in its meaning. A profitable photographer and a professional photographer are two different things in my books. Some people are one or the other, some are both, or neither.

[kiwi]

good point, me as an example

am I professional ? Not by AIPP definition
am I professional ? I charge for photos and have a business, so, yes by that definition
am I professional ? I like to think that I act professionally at all times
am I professional ? I think I take high quality photos, but not anywhere near as good as some
am I profitable ? hardly

[bigdazzler]

Most true professionals rarely refer to themselves as such. but some newbies seek out information on how to be a professional photographer. Maybe when they do, we are answering incorrectly? I reckon if someone asks a question about becoming a pro, the first response should be "what is a professional photographer, what is it that you are aiming to be"? My guess is most of the time the response will be related to making money from taking photos, and nothing at all about producing high quality photos.

I think the word professional is being bastardised to an extent, in its meaning. A profitable photographer and a professional photographer are two different things in my books.

not to mention a skilful and quality one .... there are a lot of people out there registered for GST, with public liability, AIPP membership etc ..... "Pros" in every sense of the definitive word. But a lot of those same pros are doing very ordinary work and acting in a way that couldnt be any more unprofessional.

It all comes down to personal morals, standards, and ethics IMO. I know a few enthusiasts that act in a more empathetic and considerate manner than a few of the pros that Ive spoken to in the search for my wedding photographer. But lets not go anywhere near the "W" word here ay ....

[Nina]

Always find these threads interesting and a great read. Thanks.
A question always arise for me is I don't think I have seen a answer from a person that has a studied photography and is in the field working full time. I would be interested in their thoughts.
I have seen a thread with a second yr student has replied and well I was some what amused that he thought just because when he gets out in the real world with little letters behind is name made him a instant professional photographer.

[jeffde]

How to have a $1 million as a professional Photographer ???

Start with $2 million and give it a few years......

[bigdazzler]

Im thinking of doing something like this .... At least everything will be shiny and Ill look professional

(Seriously though ... Nice workspace huh.)

Chase Jarvis Studio Buildout

[zollo]

Always find these threads interesting and a great read. Thanks.
A question always arise for me is I don't think I have seen a answer from a person that has a studied photography and is in the field working full time. I would be interested in their thoughts.
I have seen a thread with a second yr student has replied and well I was some what amused that he thought just because when he gets out in the real world with little letters behind is name made him a instant professional photographer.

Hi, I have a Diploma in PhotoImaging and am a full time photographer.
ALL income from photography, ABN, business name, gst, the lot.
2 years fulltime study makes you much more a professional than a hobby-ist sorry. we all know the certificate, title, letters, bachelor, is just a formality but it's how it works.
I s'pose you dont believe in the title of a G.M. (Grand Master) photographer but get your work judged alongside theirs at an exhibition and see whether they have earnt their title or not

[bigdazzler]

Hi, I have a Diploma in PhotoImaging and am a full time photographer.
ALL income from photography, ABN, business name, gst, the lot.
2 years fulltime study makes you much more a professional than a hobby-ist sorry.

zollo can I ask where you studied ??

[Paul G]

I was some what amused that he thought just because when he gets out in the real world with little letters behind is name made him a instant professional photographer.

There would be very few people who could hope to have any sort of instant, or recognisable success so early in their career I think even if they have studied. But these days with the proliferation of digital cameras and the www, more and more people think this way. A bit like people who are tone deaf (sorry to anyone who is) and think they can be an overnight rock/popstar by auditioning for a TV show. There are exceptions though!

Nina, having a look at your website and blog, you appear to be very accomplished at what you do, with some lovely work on display. Are you among the 'self-taught' brigade or have you studied before commencing a business?

[kiwi]

Hi, I have a Diploma in PhotoImaging and am a full time photographer.
ALL income from photography, ABN, business name, gst, the lot.
2 years fulltime study makes you much more a professional than a hobby-ist sorry. we all know the certificate, title, letters, bachelor, is just a formality but it's how it works.
I s'pose you dont believe in the title of a G.M. (Grand Master) photographer but get your work judged alongside theirs at an exhibition and see whether they have earnt their title or not

On the other hand, I'd suggest that the vast majority of AIPP Award Winners and FT Pro photographers do not have Diplomas in Photography either

But good on you Zollo.

[bigdazzler]

I have seen a thread with a second yr student has replied and well I was some what amused that he thought just because when he gets out in the real world with little letters behind is name made him a instant professional photographer.

oh that guy ..... well hes gone now.

[zollo]

Central Institute of Technology bigdazzler. TAFE in other words

[bigdazzler]

On the other hand, I'd suggest that the vast majority of AIPP Award Winners and FT Pro photographers do not have Diplomas in Photography either

I suggested that to the aforementioned-^^^-now-gone-know-all-member once before, and his response was something like that 90% of the full time professional photographers out there working have formal training. We dont seriously believe that do we ... ??