400D Upgrade

[crum]

Went and had a play with a 7D today and I really like the feel of it. The guy at one store actually suggested getting the 15-85mm kit lens, as opposed to the 24 - 105mm. Aparently its an L series lens to suit a crop frame camera (Canon just won't put the red band on a crop frame camera lens) . The lens still has the metal body and a reasonable weight to it indicating the glass must be quite reasonable. What is everyones opinion on package? It actually works out a bit cheaper and leaves some funds for something with a little more zoom to use at the track

[Shelley]

Went and had a play with a 7D today and I really like the feel of it. The guy at one store actually suggested getting the 15-85mm kit lens, as opposed to the 24 - 105mm. Aparently its an L series lens to suit a crop frame camera (Canon just won't put the red band on a crop frame camera lens) . The lens still has the metal body and a reasonable weight to it indicating the glass must be quite reasonable. What is everyones opinion on package? It actually works out a bit cheaper and leaves some funds for something with a little more zoom to use at the track

Do you mean 17-85mm - I am not sure what the sales person was saying to you - its definitely not a L lens.

I don't know much about the lens, if its the 17-85 you are referring to. I would think the 24-105mm is a better lens, because it is an L and cost a lot more than the other lens. But, you don't have to get an L lens - as this lens might just suit your needs.

I am not giving an opinion really, just letting you know its not an L lens. I had a quick look on Fred Miranda for some reviews on the 17-85 and it didn't seem to get real bad reviews from users. Tannin usually gives good advice on lens.

[Tannin]

(Tannin enters at stage left.)

(Tannin realises he has forgotten to do his fly up. He turns to face up-stage and points energetically in the vague direction of Moscow, hoping that with the distraction no-one will notice him adjusting his clothing with the other hand. Now correctly dressed (more or less) Tannin turns to face front and trips over his shoelaces. He can see that this is not going to be a good night.)

[Tannin]

Shelly is correct, the 15-85 isn't an L Series lens. It is, however, a very good one by all accounts, with excellent image quality (similar to the 24-105), very good build quality (not as good as the L, but still very, very good), a similarly excellent focus motor, and, at least in the view of many people, a more useful focal length range than the 245-105. It will be quite a bit lighter and smaller too.

(Shelly, the excellent all-round 15-85 has replaced the nice but significantly flawed 17-85 in Canon's line-up. It is similar to the old lens in most regards - build quality, focus motor, good IS, and so on - but has a wider range, and much less CA and distortion - or so I am told.)

For the 15-85:

• A bit cheaper
• Lighter
• More useful range on a crop body
• Much wider

For the 24-105.

• Faster - constant f/4
• Compatible with all Canon bodies - compare with the EF-S lenses like the 15-85, which can't be used on large-sensor bodies such as 1D, 1Ds, and 5D.
• A bit longer - though the difference between 85 and 105 isn't much, where the difference between 15mm and 24mm is huge.
• Even better build quality
• You get a hood instead of being ripped off by Canon with the extra charge for this essential item that all other manufacturers give to you. (Except Nikon, of course, and probably Sony too. But they don't make Canon compatible lenses.)

I guess I lean slightly towards the 15-85, all else being equal, but they are both sensible choices.

[reaction]

Don't really think you should care if it's 'L' or not. Apart from being way more expensive and bragging rights among fanboys, it doesn't make a diff (I'm assuming you're not a Pro 'tog). Amateurs can take crappy photos whether they have red stripes on their lenses or not.

15-85 has a great range for a DX sensor, 24-105 will just make you want to buy a 12-24 or sth. As Tannin said, buy a hood - you need it. and for a 1.6x crop the 17 in the 17-85 isn't nearly wide enough.

You could also consider Tamron's 17-50 f2.8, it's cheap and decent. Then use the $ saved for a 70-300 of some sort.

As for 50D vs 7D, 7D is the 1st that has a decent AF system. The 50D range looks abandoned by Canon, so I'd stay away if $ wasn't an issue.
Some people think FF is the end of all things, it's not. After FF there's MF and LF. There's nothing wrong with staying with a DX sensor size.

[peterking]

I'm looking to upgrade my current 400D to something a bit newer and better and am considering either the 50D or 7D. I've done a bit of searching on here and everyone seems to think spending the extra on the 7D is well worth it so I don't mind handing over that little bit extra.
What are the kit lenses avaliable with the 7D like? Being the 15-85mm, 18-135mm and the 18-200mm. I use my camera for a range of stuff such as bushwalking, motorsport photography and taking away with me on day trips and holidays. Would any of these be worth getting as a package or would I be better off just buying a body and looking for another lens?

When I got mine earlier this year I got the 18-200 as I already had the 18-135. I just the other week got a 70-200 f/2.8 L and with what I already had I really didn't need to get the 18-200. One point of interest is the 18-135 is a wide angle.

[reaction]

yes although 18 is considered wide angle, if you go out with friends who are using 17 or 15mm, you will keep asking them why they can get so much more in the frame.
technically 22 is wide angle too, it's just not really wide enough.

and watch out for store guys, they spew all sorts of crap to get a sale. most of the time they're wrong, about everything...

[soulman]

My first Canon was a 400D, which I replaced with a 40D and then a 5D11. I am fairly particular about image quality and, as much as I would like to be able to say otherwise, there isn't a vast difference between A3 prints made from images created by any of these cameras. That's not to say there isn't a difference. Just that it's not earth shattering. The 5D11 is by far the best to use (and has many other advantages over lesser cameras) and the 40D was a step up from the 400D in the same way, but these cameras can all produce excellent quality images with good lenses. I wouldn't buy a 7D myself, because I think an 18MP APS-C sensor is not a great design choice - too many small pixels - and doesn't really do much for you except limit high ISO performance and allow more flexibility with cropping. If I had to buy another crop body now, I would probably try to find a low mileage 40D second hand. They're a great camera.

What will improve the quality of your images significantly is your choice of lenses. Many would disagree I'm sure, but if I had a choice between a budget or mid-range SLR with a kit lens and a premium compact, I would choose the latter because the image quality is not so far behind that it warrants putting up with the hassles of lugging an SLR. Once you put a good lens on any recent SLR this is no longer true for me.

I would just buy a new lens or two if I were you. You can enter the L world very affordably if you pick your target. The 70-200 f4 (non-IS) and the 17-40 can both be had for under $1000 new and the 24-105 is not much more. The 50 1.4, while not an L, is still quite reasonable and is available for under $500. I got a 28-135 with my 400D and, though many criticise it, mine was very good. I had a 10-22 as well, which I wasn't quite as happy with, but I understand that all UWA zooms are problematic to some degree.

I also think the 24-105 is far better on a crop body, despite the less useful focal length range, because the crop hides all of its major weaknesses - vignetting, soft corners and barrel/pincushion distortion. I thought mine was perfect until I got the 5D. I use it much less now.

[Ray Heath]

G'day all

Excellent post soulman. I totally agree with you and I'm dismayed to hear that so many have fallen into the marketing traps of more mPs, newer is better, get the biggest zoom you can, blah, blah. Good photography is not about these things. It's not about the latest and greatest, it's about seeing and using what you've got to it's fullest potential.

[David]

(Tannin enters at stage left.)

(Tannin realises he has forgotten to do his fly up. He turns to face up-stage and points energetically in the vague direction of Moscow, hoping that with the distraction no-one will notice him adjusting his clothing with the other hand. Now correctly dressed (more or less) Tannin turns to face front and trips over his shoelaces. He can see that this is not going to be a good night.)

Post of the week for mine

[muli]

not sure if your aware but Harvey norman has the 50D on special at the moment for $842!!!

[crum]

Well I think I'm pretty much sold on the 15-85mm kit lens option. Should hopefully work out reasonably as a package. I can save over 1k buying it as a grey import so should I go with this option or spend more and get one which is Australian stock?

I also plan to purchase a 70-200mm to use out at the race track once the bank account has recovered slightly

[etherial]

Grey can be a cheap option but there are risks. Do a search here on AP for grey market or suppliers like DWI International and you'll find plenty of discussion about the pros and cons.

Bottom line, Canon cameras have an Australian warranty, Lenses are international. It depends how much of a risk taker you are. I bought my 7D grey market because the saving was about $500 which outweighed the risks IMO, but bought my 70-200/2.8 local as the cost difference was minimal.

[soulman]

Canon's lens warranties are international, so there is no disadvantage in buying grey there.

[annainoz]

not sure if your aware but Harvey norman has the 50D on special at the moment for $842!!!

Yes I know (I posted on another forum as I've been monitoring the prices of the 50D) and I checked this morning and it's double the price now. No idea what the heck HN are playing at but that's just wrong.

[Phil777]

Yes I know (I posted on another forum as I've been monitoring the prices of the 50D) and I checked this morning and it's double the price now. No idea what the heck HN are playing at but that's just wrong.

Well more than likely it is to do with today being July 1st and no longer in the last financial year which ended yesterday. Many retailers have had end of financial year sales just to boost their figures for the year.

[annainoz]

Yep prob right. I happened to be in HN this arvo and they didn't have any 50D's on display but had the signage for the $842. I asked about it and mentioned the website being almost double and he said that price is only until Sunday and although they didn't have any in stock he could back order at that price.
Pity I don't have the $$ yet lol.

[Old Skool]

Thanks for the heads up on the 50D, got into HN yesterday and got a body for the $842. Had to tell them to look online for the price as it came up at $1599 on their scanner!

[gje38752]

I'm looking to upgrade my current 400D to something a bit newer and better and am considering either the 50D or 7D. I've done a bit of searching on here and everyone seems to think spending the extra on the 7D is well worth it so I don't mind handing over that little bit extra.
What are the kit lenses avaliable with the 7D like? Being the 15-85mm, 18-135mm and the 18-200mm. I use my camera for a range of stuff such as bushwalking, motorsport photography and taking away with me on day trips and holidays. Would any of these be worth getting as a package or would I be better off just buying a body and looking for another lens?

Hi in attempting to answer your question, I have a 450D and found I shouldn't have wasted my money on a lens kit but rather buy a decent lens straight up. So after a lot of inquiries I settled on a 15=85. I find after a l ot of use, it is a very good lens in every way..Certainly not L quality but not far away. Also I understand it was developed with the 7D in mind, which will be my next camera with the 15-85 on the front. Good Luck

[crum]

Thanks for the reply gje38752. Its good to hear some more positive feedback about the 15-85mm. I'm just about ready to buy a 7D now, just bringing myself to part with the money is proving to be the hardest part